Bowman

I have a 87 GXL NA that I have had to let sit for a couple of weeks. The car ran fine before letting sit, now I cannot get it to start.

I have removed all of the plugs, all were wet with gas. Pulled the EGI 30A and 40A fuses while spinning the motor over to clear out the excess gas. Used a lighter to burn off excess gas from spark plugs.

I checked the voltage at the leading coil with the ign switch on, 12V present. Removed neg battery cable, checking the leading coil and trailing coils for proper resistance with DMM. Also check CAS for proper resistance with DMM. All checked within specs.

I also pulled one of the trailing plugs and connected into plug wire from coil, laying up on the strut tower. Did not see any spark. Here at house by myself, so getting someone to spin motor while pulling on the plugs wires is not an option for now.

I'm at a loss here, really miss driving my RX7. But the upside is, I'm getting real good at pulling the spark plugs!!

I have been reading and searching the forum/FAQ for a while, but have not found anything that works for me.

Any one have any other ideas?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Check spark at the leading, not the trailing.

Does your tach bounce?

At this point, you will want to check for a proper signal from the CAS, as well as a proper pulstrain to the leading coil. You will need a scope for this.

HAILERS

Welllllll.....if you know how to correctly install a cas.......then pull the cas but leave the electrical connector connected. Turn the key to ON. Pull just one of the LEAD coil wires out of its bore at the coil, and lay it just at the hole in the coil. Spin the cas with your fingers. There should be a rather large sparking b/t the plug wire and the inners of the coil.

There are advantages to doing this. The main advantage is you don't wear the starter out and your not spinning the engine and washing the lubricant away from the seals.

. Now Wayne has another method using a florescent light bulb. You might ask him how that works.

I doubt it's a fuse issue since you say you have fuel.

Using a spare cas would be preferable to pulling the one in the engine. It's a very effective way to check for spark. Actually better than a timing light and a touch better than putting the lead plug wires on the fender etc since your alone and have to sit in the car to see the spark.

Bowman

I have the Haynes manual describing removing the CAS. I do not have another unit sitting round. I have had this car for over 2 years, and this is the first problem I have had .

I will try this tomorrow to see if I can generate a spark by spinning the CAS, and also trying the trailing plug inplace of the leading plug.

Thanks for the tips!!

Kenteth

Do you realise how umcomfortable 45000 volts jumping through your hand is?

Bowman

Yeah, 45KV is not a good feeling. In my younger days, I could take a few hits from spark plugs. The tricky part is to make sure that you are not acting as the ground connection for the spark!!

Kenteth

I remember checking plugs from a ford probe I had (probably only around 20kv). But I wa holding the metal hood open with my other hand at teh time. Smart move eh?

Bowman

Quick update- have not gotten timing light yet. When trying to crank the engine, I have no bounce on the tach. Still looking.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

If you have no bounce on the tach, then your trailing ignition is not getting a signal. Which usually means that your leading is also dead. Have you checked for a signal at the coils with a scope? Are your SURE your CAS is alive?

HAILERS

Or if your hesitant to pull the cas.......go to this site http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/ERRORC...ENKI/parts.jpg

Buy a LED just like the ones shown from RADIO SHACK. Just one will do but buy two if you want to make that error code device.

Using just one of the LED's, strip the wire ends. Then pull the small white two socket connector off the LEAD coil assy. Install the RED LED wire end , in the white connector where the GREEN AND YELLOW wire is. Put the LED'S other wire on the negative post of the battery or just to a nearby ground point. Leave the connector disconnected.

Now spin the engine with the starter. The LED should flash each time the ECU sends a trigger signal to the coil.

You already said you had 12v at the black/yellow wire.

If the LED flashes .......then there MIGHT be a problem with the coil. But it could be another thing altogether.

Attached is my half assed code breaking LED assy. You just need one LED and no spade connectors. Just strip the wire ends and stuff into the green/yellow socket and the other wire on ground.

Bowman

HAILERS:
Thanks for the reply! On the GREEN/YELLOW WIRE, I do see the LED flash as I spin the motor. I have removed the leading coil from the car, and resistance across the primary (+-) contacts measures out at 0.0 om my DMM. Thoughts?

Bowman

I meant to also add that I did pull one of the leading plugs, attach it to the plug wire, and ground the base of the plug. When trying to crank, I saw/heard no spark at the plug.

drft_180sx

Ive had a similar problem to yours, in short i had to take it to the mechanics (cost me a bundle) some relays were replaced and supposedely some wire between the ecu and coil pack had burnt up....but i never saw any broken fuses...so i assume a improper fuse was in the car before i bought it..

I dont know what i am talking about btw.

HAILERS

Hey! That's great. I never recommended using a LED before for checking the signal from the ECU. So since it flashes and you also have 12vdc on the black/yellow wire, it seems you might have a bad coil. MIGHT. There's a jpg attached out of the fsm. Note that it tells you to disconnect the battery negative terminal.

Sometime laying the sparkplug lead near the strut tower studs and looking for spark isn't a sure thing if the cranking speed isn't up to....speed. That's why I prefer the spinning of the cas with your fingers and the sparkplug wire just hanging on the lip of the coil bore. NOT a good idea if you have some hesitation about reinstalling the cas correctly.

So do like the jpg says and take action if the resistance isn't what it is supposed to be.....new used coil. Personaly I've never ever had a bad coil. Lucky I guess.

I certainly would not be looking at the ECU or cas or fuse for your problem since the LED blinked on and off and you have 12vdc on the black/yellow.

HAILERS

Sorry, that first jpg was of the Trai Coils. Here's the Lead coil......same thing though.

Bowman

Found a used leading coil. Replaced unit, same results. I will now mark the CAS before trying your spinning method. Thanks for the great info.

Bowman

Spinning CAS by hand, pulling plug wire out of coil produces nice fireworks.

HAILERS

Good deal. So it's not a spark problem.

I noticed in the past just spinnign the engine sometimes you don't see much of a spark from the plug wires. Using the spin the cas method always results in a *fireworks* display if the coil etc is good. Much later I'll post a jpg showing how the inner gears of the cas should look if the mark on the pulley is aligned with the fixed pointer. Much later today or tomorrow. Just a FYI thing I've posted before. I can stab a cas that way and then check it with a timing light and always be within five degrees with the light.

HAILERS

The car sitll does not start though. Got good spark. Got fuel. Flooded probably. ]

Try the old fashion method. Disconnect the fuel pump plug. Clear the fuel out by removing the lower plugs and spinning for ten or so seconds. Reinstall the plugs/wires.

Leave the fuel pump plug OFF. Buy a can of starter fluid. Spray into the air filter for about two or three seconds.

Crank the engine and try to start. It should at LEAST go varoom for a second. DO NOT have someone continually spray starter fluid into the intake to keep a car running.

If it does not go varoom after trying several times..........uggggh. See if when the lower plugs are out and you spin the engine that the pulses from one plug are about the same as the other plug hole while spinning the engine and your finger is over the hole. One at a time. Sorry, I'm in a hurry now. Got to go.

HAILERS

The car sitll does not start though. Got good spark. Got fuel. Flooded probably. ]

Try the old fashion method. Disconnect the fuel pump plug. Clear the fuel out by removing the lower plugs and spinning for ten or so seconds. Reinstall the plugs/wires.

Leave the fuel pump plug OFF. Buy a can of starter fluid. Spray into the air filter for about two or three seconds.

Crank the engine and try to start. It should at LEAST go varoom for a second. DO NOT have someone continually spray starter fluid into the intake to keep a car running.

If it does not go varoom after trying several times..........uggggh. See if when the lower plugs are out and you spin the engine that the pulses from one plug are about the same as the other plug hole while spinning the engine and your finger is over the hole. One at a time. Sorry, I'm in a hurry now. Got to go.

If the pulses are reasonably the same from both holes......somehow inject some motor oil into each plug hole....rotate the engine by hand....inject some more oil.......put plugs back in and spray the starter fluid and try to start the car. It's possible all the lubricant has been washed off the rotor housings etc in the past few weeks and the compression is tooo low to start without doing that. Sorry.....only done the motor oil thru the carb on a first gen......never had to do that on a fuel injected car/engine. GONE.

Bowman

Still no luck with getting it to start. I talked with a fellow at Sneeds Speed Shop in Winston-Salem a while ago. He asked if somehow water had gotten into the passenger compartment, indicating that water could have gotten to the computer. I have removed the computer from the car and am taking to his shop in the morning. He said he had another 2nd gen in his shop with these exact same problems, and in this one, it was a wet computer. I did have water in the carpet on Saturday when I opened the car up, so I guess I'll find out in the morning.

Bowman

Update- repair shop saw no indication of water (or dust) in the ECU unit. They mentioned another possible culprit would be the coolant tempature sensor, causing the sub-zero unit to think it was needed and continue to pump fuel into the engine. Does anyone know what the reading for this unit should be when measuring with DMM?

HAILERS

The SubZero unit was supposed to be removed at sometime according to a factory bulletin. I doubt if its operational. It's feed bottle is located in the far right, rear of the engine bay. If you have not put the mixture in it.......then it ain't the problem.

You have spark (verified by yourself), you have fuel.(verified by yourself)....it should fire up if you have any compression.

The water thermo sensor on the back of the water pump housing is a possible problem.....although I have reservations about that. You can see the plug if you look.

If you flipped the cas and got the large spark display like you said, then that is a very good indication the ECU and cas are fine.

Bowman

OK. Back in town now. Hailers, I tried your method with the starting fluid. No varooom. I do not have a timing light to see if I misaligned the CAS when I reinstalled it. I pulled it again, spun the motor by hand until the lead timing mark was at the indicator, then aligned the CAS marks, and reinstalled. Still no varooom with starting fluid still in the air filter housing. I now have the battery out, connected to a charger.

If I have the ignition on, spin the CAS, and see fire at the leading coil/boot, that leads me to think compression/timing. This should rule out computer, coolant temp sensor, fuel.

HAILERS

Yeah. You proved you have spark and fuel. The timing might be a issue since the cas was pulled out and the compression might be a issue especially since it's been quite a while since the engine has run and I'd suspect most of the oil has been washed away from the rotor seals etc.

I'll post that picture much later this night which shows exactly where the gears/pointer in the cas should be WHEN the mark on the front pulley is aligned with the fixed pointer. Later.