5th and 6th PORTS? DOG CONFUSED>
08-06-05, 09:35 PM
#1
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5th and 6th PORTS? DOG CONFUSED>
OK, we all know I'm new, but I'm still a little confused about the 5th and 6th ports I have seen and read. Now be incredibly nice, since Im usually the *******. Have 90 FC3C n/a. Pictures or explanations of them for me, or exact thread. Thanks, just looking for something to do to car. RUF RUF RUF
08-06-05, 11:12 PM
#3
they are like.. little tubes with a hole cut in them. they are stuck into the housings. when a certain rpm is reached the rotate and the tubelets air into the engine. i would just yank them out cus they are good for weight redux, and some people have noticed a gain in hmt, although some idiots day blah blah blah low end drivabuility suffers blah blah, but really, who the hell launches a car at 1.5 grand?
08-07-05, 03:15 AM
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Well with that intelligent response, I can now find where my pecker is located. I ask a lot of dumb questions here because I really don't know. Could someone point me to a thread , or a picture, please? RUF RUF RUF
08-07-05, 04:10 AM
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OK, THANKS. I just found the information I was looking for by doing more research.
<edited for insulting members because he can't search>
<edited for insulting members because he can't search>
Last edited by Icemark; 08-07-05 at 08:59 PM.
08-07-05, 11:31 AM
#7
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Dude, you need to relax man. You posted this late on a saturday night, and you're complaining about no responsed by 12PM on sunday? I mean, this isn't even a serious problem or anything, just a general question? C'mon....
To answer your question (which SirCygnus largely covered). They're a hollow tube, with a slot cut out of them. They're inserted into the engine intake ports on a Naturally Aspirated engine. When the engine is in low RPM (below 3800ish), the ports are closed, so no air can get into the engine. After you reach that RPM, they're turned, allowing air/gas mix to flow through them, letting more air into the engine at higher RPMS. They're normally operated by backpressure from the catalytic converter, which pushes about 6 psi of air into actuators, that rotate the tubes. Here's what it looks like on the inside of your engine
<pictures stolen from rotaryengineillustrated.com <----PLUG >
[img]http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/pictures/teardown/17b.jpg[/b]
On the plate standing up, you'll see a "squareish" port, that's the one that the tube sits in (you can see the round opening to the outside of the engine on the left).
As for location outside of the engine, the most visible thing is the actuators, which are located on the lower-intake manifold (right above the exhaust manifold). They're bell-shaped actuators.
To remove it: you have to take off your lower-intake manifold, which involves taking off the throttle body, the upper intake manfold, disconnecting fuel lines and oil injectors, and a bunch of other stuff, to finally pull the sleeves out of the engine. If they're functional, leave them in, as it does help to have them closed at the low-end with a stock ECU. If they're not functional, either fix it, or take them out, as its better to have the hit at the low end than the high end.
To answer your question (which SirCygnus largely covered). They're a hollow tube, with a slot cut out of them. They're inserted into the engine intake ports on a Naturally Aspirated engine. When the engine is in low RPM (below 3800ish), the ports are closed, so no air can get into the engine. After you reach that RPM, they're turned, allowing air/gas mix to flow through them, letting more air into the engine at higher RPMS. They're normally operated by backpressure from the catalytic converter, which pushes about 6 psi of air into actuators, that rotate the tubes. Here's what it looks like on the inside of your engine
<pictures stolen from rotaryengineillustrated.com <----PLUG >
[img]http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/pictures/teardown/17b.jpg[/b]
On the plate standing up, you'll see a "squareish" port, that's the one that the tube sits in (you can see the round opening to the outside of the engine on the left).
As for location outside of the engine, the most visible thing is the actuators, which are located on the lower-intake manifold (right above the exhaust manifold). They're bell-shaped actuators.
To remove it: you have to take off your lower-intake manifold, which involves taking off the throttle body, the upper intake manfold, disconnecting fuel lines and oil injectors, and a bunch of other stuff, to finally pull the sleeves out of the engine. If they're functional, leave them in, as it does help to have them closed at the low-end with a stock ECU. If they're not functional, either fix it, or take them out, as its better to have the hit at the low end than the high end.
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08-07-05, 12:30 PM
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You guys are the best. Thank you. The dog gets cranky when he has nothing new to work on with " Daphne ". I crushed my foot 4 months ago with 5000 pound hydraulic motor, so I have lots of time for the car. Sorry. I read the f-ing manual, and threads, but with explanations like that, I'll send you a card on your b-day. Manual is not the same as taking this info and pictures right to it. Peace. RUF RUF RUF
08-07-05, 02:28 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Mombodogs
I guess I'll say I'm 16 years old and have built 85 rotaries and get some kind of answer.
And, seriously, a lot of people have better things to do on a Saturday night than post on rx7club. Things are a lot more active during the week.
-=Russ=-
08-07-05, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Syonyk
Huh? You've built 85 motors?
And, seriously, a lot of people have better things to do on a Saturday night than post on rx7club. Things are a lot more active during the week.
-=Russ=-
And, seriously, a lot of people have better things to do on a Saturday night than post on rx7club. Things are a lot more active during the week.
-=Russ=-
08-07-05, 04:33 PM
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Actually I do have other things to do, but the car is new to me and I enjoy researching and reading. I actually was referring to the young wankel. That kid is going places with his knowledge at that age. And just so I can feel uneducated again, is the shaft suppose to be in or out at low rpm? Peace. RUF RUF RUF
08-07-05, 05:44 PM
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Well thank you. You'll have to pick up a copy of my first novel soon. So, back to my stupidity, I figured it out by myself, and more photos. Its amazing to me that a vehicle 15 years old has such a simple design, but so complicated in its "running" state. So many sensors, but functional. Maybe next time at junk yard, Ill tear one down to get a hands on look at it all. Hard to find, maybe get lucky. Thanks again. Peace. RUF RUF RUF
08-07-05, 09:14 PM
#14
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
They're normally operated by backpressure from the catalytic converter, which pushes about 6 psi of air into actuators, that rotate the tubes.
The 89-91 non turbos use the air pump.
And in both cases, they are actuated with less than 3 PSI (and closer to 2 PSI).
Mombo Although this subject has been covered countless times, I'll cover it again for you.
The aux ports are simply an additional port in each rotor that opens or closes based on RPM for increased torque or increased high end breathing. They are actuated on the 84-91 non turbos by air pressure (either from the exhaust or the air pump depending on year).
They are simular in function to a Honda Vtec or Toyota VVt engine (which came several years later) where port timing is changed based on RPM to optimize the power output, and simular to a DOHC engine in that they increase incoming mixture at upper RPM.
And Mombo... you need to take a chill pill. This is not the first time I have had to edit your threads- I shouldn't have too...
Please stop posting like a spoiled child.
08-07-05, 09:52 PM
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Ah, yes.. Forgot about VDI! Sorry about that, Mark... I've never gotten to see a real, live S5 for more than 5 minutes 
It seemed to take about 6 psi to push mine, though. They might have been dying, though. Meh, whatever, I dont' have them on anymore
Thanks for the corrections.
It seemed to take about 6 psi to push mine, though. They might have been dying, though. Meh, whatever, I dont' have them on anymore
Thanks for the corrections.
08-07-05, 10:19 PM
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Again Ice, thanks for the rescue. I guess I'll just have to be a stuck up "NOT KNOW IT ALL". I don't think you people with all your knowledge realize how much you really do help us out. At least me, thats for sure. We know you don't get paid, but should, for all the advice given. I try to bring some levity to this site, because the technical jargon must make your necks stiff, posturing to type your answers.. Thanks again all, and unless I get kicked out of here for asking stupid questions, with some type of humor, all keep posting and reading. I'm 3months old to the rotary, so stop smacking me in the face. God is the only person all knowing. PEACE. RUF RUF RUF RUF RUF
08-07-05, 10:24 PM
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i shall add what I found from my questions:
1. diaphram material - rubber
2. reason it get stuck - dirt? lazy? non-use?
3. quick fix - tie them open with metal wire (any one has pics?)
4. corrective action - dismantle and clean
on my 90 I tried to turn them by hand, the front turned fine with little opposition and I could hear the air hissing as I moved them.
on the back, ouch, I could not move them, and will ask if arnold is willing to come over and help me turn them.
I found my dupont tefy non oily sticky lubricant bottle and gave the base of the actuators a good blast. hoping some would seep in. but this is the one above the heat shield and I think the heat is cooking them.
my questions (bow wow wow, wuf, and all that):
1. why in the good lords name can't we lube the infernal rubber piece of amazing technology
2. how about drilling a hole above the diaphram to lube it, the pressue is pushing it in the 90s, so it should be safe to have a hole on top?
3. what the heck to ya tie the crank to the actuator to, to keep it open? pics pls.
[no dogs were fed, hurt, mated during the production of this msg.
1. diaphram material - rubber
2. reason it get stuck - dirt? lazy? non-use?
3. quick fix - tie them open with metal wire (any one has pics?)
4. corrective action - dismantle and clean
on my 90 I tried to turn them by hand, the front turned fine with little opposition and I could hear the air hissing as I moved them.
on the back, ouch, I could not move them, and will ask if arnold is willing to come over and help me turn them.
I found my dupont tefy non oily sticky lubricant bottle and gave the base of the actuators a good blast. hoping some would seep in. but this is the one above the heat shield and I think the heat is cooking them.
my questions (bow wow wow, wuf, and all that):
1. why in the good lords name can't we lube the infernal rubber piece of amazing technology
2. how about drilling a hole above the diaphram to lube it, the pressue is pushing it in the 90s, so it should be safe to have a hole on top?
3. what the heck to ya tie the crank to the actuator to, to keep it open? pics pls.
[no dogs were fed, hurt, mated during the production of this msg.
08-07-05, 10:31 PM
#19
I dont know about lubing them, I'm sure theres a thread somewhere on it. You can prob find one at a junk yard for not too much money. As for wiring them open, I dont reccomend it at all. Mine were wired open and you have no low end power at all and its unneccesary.
08-07-05, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by stockrex
i shall add what I found from my questions:
1. diaphram material - rubber
2. reason it get stuck - dirt? lazy? non-use?
3. quick fix - tie them open with metal wire (any one has pics?)
4. corrective action - dismantle and clean
on my 90 I tried to turn them by hand, the front turned fine with little opposition and I could hear the air hissing as I moved them.
on the back, ouch, I could not move them, and will ask if arnold is willing to come over and help me turn them.
I found my dupont tefy non oily sticky lubricant bottle and gave the base of the actuators a good blast. hoping some would seep in. but this is the one above the heat shield and I think the heat is cooking them.
my questions (bow wow wow, wuf, and all that):
1. why in the good lords name can't we lube the infernal rubber piece of amazing technology
2. how about drilling a hole above the diaphram to lube it, the pressue is pushing it in the 90s, so it should be safe to have a hole on top?
3. what the heck to ya tie the crank to the actuator to, to keep it open? pics pls.
[no dogs were fed, hurt, mated during the production of this msg.
1. diaphram material - rubber
2. reason it get stuck - dirt? lazy? non-use?
3. quick fix - tie them open with metal wire (any one has pics?)
4. corrective action - dismantle and clean
on my 90 I tried to turn them by hand, the front turned fine with little opposition and I could hear the air hissing as I moved them.
on the back, ouch, I could not move them, and will ask if arnold is willing to come over and help me turn them.
I found my dupont tefy non oily sticky lubricant bottle and gave the base of the actuators a good blast. hoping some would seep in. but this is the one above the heat shield and I think the heat is cooking them.
my questions (bow wow wow, wuf, and all that):
1. why in the good lords name can't we lube the infernal rubber piece of amazing technology
2. how about drilling a hole above the diaphram to lube it, the pressue is pushing it in the 90s, so it should be safe to have a hole on top?
3. what the heck to ya tie the crank to the actuator to, to keep it open? pics pls.
[no dogs were fed, hurt, mated during the production of this msg.
Definately don't drill a hole into the diaphram, or around it.. It will not help you.
It's more likely that after you pull the actuator off, you'll be able to make the sleeve turn. So if you want to wire it up, simply wire it to anything convient (most people wire it up to the little "ears" that act as stops for the bar). You'l want to wire them with the "tab" pushed downwards, as that's the open position.
*edit*- Sideways is right, it will hurt your low end on a unmodified car.
08-07-05, 11:15 PM
#21
I'll throw you a table scrap...
https://www.rx7club.com/search.php?searchid=1021710
--->
<---
No knowledge of Rotary Engines, Actuator Ports or Fire Hydrants required.
https://www.rx7club.com/search.php?searchid=1021710
--->
<---No knowledge of Rotary Engines, Actuator Ports or Fire Hydrants required.
08-07-05, 11:22 PM
#22
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by WonkoTheSane
Ah, yes.. Forgot about VDI! Sorry about that, Mark... I've never gotten to see a real, live S5 for more than 5 minutes
It seemed to take about 6 psi to push mine, though. They might have been dying, though. Meh, whatever, I dont' have them on anymore
Thanks for the corrections.
It seemed to take about 6 psi to push mine, though. They might have been dying, though. Meh, whatever, I dont' have them on anymore
Thanks for the corrections.
The S4 start opening around 1.8psi and are fully open by 2.3 psi.
So, 6 psi is kinda high, and I would double check that they move easily by hand (if the don't they need cleaning) or that your pressure gauge is reasonably accurate.
08-07-05, 11:55 PM
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Again people, this information is priceless to the dog. Thank you. And the humor is getting better, but needs improvement, like my rotary knowledge. Sure is fun taking on a project at 8:00 am after taking son to school, and hopefully having it done by 1:30 to pick him up. If the actuators do need replaced, are mine on my 90 FC3C, interchangeable with with other years? Also, someone said that my engine is not original. How could I tell? Tried to sniff different engines, but nose didn't pick up similiarities. Numbers stamped on block, throttle body, etc? PEACE, RUF RUF RUF
08-08-05, 12:12 AM
#24
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Mombodogs
Again people, this information is priceless to the dog. Thank you. And the humor is getting better, but needs improvement, like my rotary knowledge. Sure is fun taking on a project at 8:00 am after taking son to school, and hopefully having it done by 1:30 to pick him up. If the actuators do need replaced, are mine on my 90 FC3C, interchangeable with with other years? Also, someone said that my engine is not original. How could I tell? Tried to sniff different engines, but nose didn't pick up similiarities. Numbers stamped on block, throttle body, etc? PEACE, RUF RUF RUF
But the actuator failing or being bad is very very very very very rare. More than likely it would be a stuck port instead.
08-08-05, 12:58 AM
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Yes , it is an S-5. Ok, then I will look at them in the a.m. and try to figure out the engine. Just so clean, compared to water pump, oil pump, air pump , etc. Makes me wonder. Thanks again for all the help. PEACE. RUF RUF RUF