402 wh from a bnr hybrid.
08-10-05, 07:04 PM
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402 wh from a bnr hybrid.
i built a motor for a friend of mine and he insisted that this hybrid s4 turbo could do 400 to the wheels. i told him he bumped his head.
i admit it...i was wrong.
the graph is all over the place... staging wasn't right, and the turbo spooled insanely late (~5k rpm), so the torque plot is anything but flat. still gotta smooth-tune it, but we got 402.7, so it can be done. one more trip to the dyno should make it a bit nicer looking graph, but the power is all there.
this was done on 103 unleaded @18-15 psi. turbo would reach 18, then fall off, so that's about all it can blow. afr's are a bit on the lean side, but the high octane will help prevent detonation--not to mention i installed a water injection system on it AFTER the dyno. with the water injection, we could have made a bit more...maybe into the teens. but we're using it to keep the combustion chambers clean and prevent detonation in the long run...NOT to rely on it!!
i admit it...i was wrong.
the graph is all over the place... staging wasn't right, and the turbo spooled insanely late (~5k rpm), so the torque plot is anything but flat. still gotta smooth-tune it, but we got 402.7, so it can be done. one more trip to the dyno should make it a bit nicer looking graph, but the power is all there.
this was done on 103 unleaded @18-15 psi. turbo would reach 18, then fall off, so that's about all it can blow. afr's are a bit on the lean side, but the high octane will help prevent detonation--not to mention i installed a water injection system on it AFTER the dyno. with the water injection, we could have made a bit more...maybe into the teens. but we're using it to keep the combustion chambers clean and prevent detonation in the long run...NOT to rely on it!!
08-10-05, 07:06 PM
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you can see right where it stages...goes lean, then pig rich. nothing i can do with the tuning end of it, so we're looking at a hardware situation there.
i'd like to run one pump for each fuel rail to get rid of that dive, but we'll see how it goes.
and hp is flat from 6500-8k+
that's just all she can blow...period.
i'd like to run one pump for each fuel rail to get rid of that dive, but we'll see how it goes.
and hp is flat from 6500-8k+
that's just all she can blow...period.
08-10-05, 07:10 PM
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i dunno...like 3 1/2 or something 
i think it's mostly a stage 3, but since it was a cosmo motor, he put a bigger compressor housing on it. whatever he did, it worked...just spooled too late for my taste.
i think it's mostly a stage 3, but since it was a cosmo motor, he put a bigger compressor housing on it. whatever he did, it worked...just spooled too late for my taste.
08-10-05, 07:16 PM
#5
It is a Stage 4 w/ some new specs from what I have read.
The HP I can belive but I can't belive how late that is spooling!!! My Stage 4 w/ clipped "P" trim hit full 17psi by 3,000rpm and it took ridiculous amounts of work keeping it from boost creep above 5,000rpm.
Guess it shows how important the rest of the set-up is and not just the turbo...
The HP I can belive but I can't belive how late that is spooling!!! My Stage 4 w/ clipped "P" trim hit full 17psi by 3,000rpm and it took ridiculous amounts of work keeping it from boost creep above 5,000rpm.
Guess it shows how important the rest of the set-up is and not just the turbo...
08-10-05, 07:17 PM
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Wow, that thing sure the hell does spool late! I hit 406 @ 17psi running so rich it wouldn't even read on my wideband, they just don't seem to have much more than that. (I should be somewhere around ~430 or so now that I tuned the thing and gave it some timing).
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08-10-05, 07:23 PM
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hmmm...
i can try backing off on the timing and running it richer to see if that helps out, but i doubt i'll get more than a few hundred rpm quicker.
my old hybrid (when i had my fc) hit like 14 psi in the mid 3k range...and it was old and beat to hell. i'd like to know what the specs are on the turbine. i know the s4 housing isn't exactly the best thing, but that's what it has.
i can try backing off on the timing and running it richer to see if that helps out, but i doubt i'll get more than a few hundred rpm quicker.
my old hybrid (when i had my fc) hit like 14 psi in the mid 3k range...and it was old and beat to hell. i'd like to know what the specs are on the turbine. i know the s4 housing isn't exactly the best thing, but that's what it has.
08-10-05, 07:52 PM
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Looks like the midrange could come up a lot with some tuning...but you already mentioned that lol
Could also be causing some of the late boost issue.
You know Bryan has the actuator rod setup to where it can be adjusted. If you adjust it then boost will go up or down depending on if you shorten or lengthen it. The side effect is it will also change the spool characteristics. You might want to tell your customer to mess with that rod, it might need an adjustment, that could be why its spooling late.
Even still though, the powerband looks great up top. I bet between adjusting that actuator rod and getting the bottom end tuned out real good the spool and low end power will really start to pick up.
****, personally I think its pretty damn good for a $800 setup!!!
OHHHH, also tell him to get a corrected dyno sheet....I heard it was 100F in the dyno room so between that and him being above sealevel I bet his hp will be substantially higher on a corrected sheet!!!
Stephen
Could also be causing some of the late boost issue.
You know Bryan has the actuator rod setup to where it can be adjusted. If you adjust it then boost will go up or down depending on if you shorten or lengthen it. The side effect is it will also change the spool characteristics. You might want to tell your customer to mess with that rod, it might need an adjustment, that could be why its spooling late.
Even still though, the powerband looks great up top. I bet between adjusting that actuator rod and getting the bottom end tuned out real good the spool and low end power will really start to pick up.
****, personally I think its pretty damn good for a $800 setup!!!
OHHHH, also tell him to get a corrected dyno sheet....I heard it was 100F in the dyno room so between that and him being above sealevel I bet his hp will be substantially higher on a corrected sheet!!!
Stephen
08-10-05, 08:14 PM
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Congratulationson the dyno numbers! That will be around 412 Corrected. I am suprised myself that the turbine housing and manifold have these kinds of capabilities. To be honest with you guys, I woke up one night and had a brillient idea on how to open the turbine housings up and make them flow way more then they were designed to flow. And boy did it make some power!
I have not seen a dynosheet that was more than 340 RWHP on a hybrid. One guy trapped 118 MPh in the 1/4, that told me he was making near 360 rwhp on the stage 3. Spool up can be improved with a bit more tuning, but overall that powerband is tremendous!!! Actually it would work on my car and I wouldn't complain....
I know that hybrids aren't the best all around turbos out there when it comes to spool, and power. They are bang for the buck and people on a budget that cant always afford a T series turbo, manifold, external wastegate, custom down pipe, custom oil lines, and intercooler pipe. We are talkin, take your stock turbo off and get pretty much a stock platform turbo on juice!
Hell I have had a T4 on my T2 for the longest time, I recently went back to the stock turbo and manifold with a hybrid b/c I felt like it looked better in the engine bay and made the car seem stockish again which I like. It is about how much money you have and what you are satisfied with. I would be damn happy with a 2K RPM powerband of 400 RWHP!
Good job on the tuning. Looks like you have maxed a Stock turbine housing and manifold and made the most RWHP ever out of a 2nd gen hybrid...
I have not seen a dynosheet that was more than 340 RWHP on a hybrid. One guy trapped 118 MPh in the 1/4, that told me he was making near 360 rwhp on the stage 3. Spool up can be improved with a bit more tuning, but overall that powerband is tremendous!!! Actually it would work on my car and I wouldn't complain....
I know that hybrids aren't the best all around turbos out there when it comes to spool, and power. They are bang for the buck and people on a budget that cant always afford a T series turbo, manifold, external wastegate, custom down pipe, custom oil lines, and intercooler pipe. We are talkin, take your stock turbo off and get pretty much a stock platform turbo on juice!
Hell I have had a T4 on my T2 for the longest time, I recently went back to the stock turbo and manifold with a hybrid b/c I felt like it looked better in the engine bay and made the car seem stockish again which I like. It is about how much money you have and what you are satisfied with. I would be damn happy with a 2K RPM powerband of 400 RWHP!Good job on the tuning. Looks like you have maxed a Stock turbine housing and manifold and made the most RWHP ever out of a 2nd gen hybrid...
Last edited by Bryan@BNR; 08-10-05 at 08:24 PM.
08-10-05, 10:19 PM
#17
08-10-05, 10:52 PM
#19
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
Originally Posted by SonicRaT
You needa get that **** put together. WTF's takin you so long!
I think I started way after you and I'm almost done myself haha. No numbers yet but a couple hours worth of street tuning. I'll hit the dyno soon enough. 
08-11-05, 02:44 AM
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alrighty...
it's a cosmo motor with my super streetport (the kind that's so big i have to actually get out the plexiglass and make sure the side seal leading edge isn't gonna crash
)
primaries are just moderately ported--i wanted to keep the low end drivability...and i did.
light flywheel and a 6-puck clutch. it actually drives nice with that setup...sprung hubs roxor
the turbo...well, ask brian. i had to grind on the compressor housing and lower intake manifold, and shorten one of the exhaust studs to get it to fit. and there's still only about 1/16th inch clearance in one place! other than the grinding, it's a bolt-on.
ecu is a meecrotech lt12.
ignition is bone stock. dwell is (iirc) around 4.2ms
corksport turbo back (melting the bumper)
greedy front mount (******' oil temps!!!!)
greedy profec b 2
fd throttle body and greedy shorty elbow
he made me port the throttle body too...i don't know why...it's an fd. not much to do with it other than round the edges and clean it up.
1000 primary, 1600 secondary
can't remember what fuel pump...i think it's a whineboro. that part was provided.
coolingmist cheesy water injection (installed after the dyno)
koyo radiator with a shitty e-fan (against my advice of using the stock fan)
ngk iridium 10's...overkill the car idled better on 9s, but still idles better than most fc's with this level of mods.
some underdrive pulley set from i don't know where
that's about all the power stuff i can remember off the top of my head.
so with an ignition box, the water injection hooked up, and good intake temps (they were moving on to 60*c), it shouldn't have a problem putting down 420-430 corrected whp easy.
i tried running it pig rich with no timing, then lean with a lot of timing, and nothing is helping the spoolup. if the intercooler pipes can hold up to 18psi, i don't think they're leaking...i'll check the bov one more time. i'm just kinda wondering if the port is eating the air before the pressure can be created...just a thought
and i could probably turn the gain on the boost controller up and set it to the max...might see 20+psi lower in the rpm range, but then the hp would be a flat line from like 5500rpm all the way up to god-knows-where... you can already see it plateau towards the end...we're not milking ANY more boost out of this thing up top.
it's a cosmo motor with my super streetport (the kind that's so big i have to actually get out the plexiglass and make sure the side seal leading edge isn't gonna crash
)primaries are just moderately ported--i wanted to keep the low end drivability...and i did.
light flywheel and a 6-puck clutch. it actually drives nice with that setup...sprung hubs roxor
the turbo...well, ask brian. i had to grind on the compressor housing and lower intake manifold, and shorten one of the exhaust studs to get it to fit. and there's still only about 1/16th inch clearance in one place! other than the grinding, it's a bolt-on.
ecu is a meecrotech lt12.
ignition is bone stock. dwell is (iirc) around 4.2ms
corksport turbo back (melting the bumper)
greedy front mount (******' oil temps!!!!)
greedy profec b 2
fd throttle body and greedy shorty elbow
he made me port the throttle body too...i don't know why...it's an fd. not much to do with it other than round the edges and clean it up.
1000 primary, 1600 secondary
can't remember what fuel pump...i think it's a whineboro. that part was provided.
coolingmist cheesy water injection (installed after the dyno)
koyo radiator with a shitty e-fan (against my advice of using the stock fan)
ngk iridium 10's...overkill the car idled better on 9s, but still idles better than most fc's with this level of mods.
some underdrive pulley set from i don't know where
that's about all the power stuff i can remember off the top of my head.
so with an ignition box, the water injection hooked up, and good intake temps (they were moving on to 60*c), it shouldn't have a problem putting down 420-430 corrected whp easy.
i tried running it pig rich with no timing, then lean with a lot of timing, and nothing is helping the spoolup. if the intercooler pipes can hold up to 18psi, i don't think they're leaking...i'll check the bov one more time. i'm just kinda wondering if the port is eating the air before the pressure can be created...just a thought
and i could probably turn the gain on the boost controller up and set it to the max...might see 20+psi lower in the rpm range, but then the hp would be a flat line from like 5500rpm all the way up to god-knows-where... you can already see it plateau towards the end...we're not milking ANY more boost out of this thing up top.