j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

true. the older i get the more its nice to have a good driving experience and the less i care about making some parts list with an attached dyno sheet.

one of my other cars is a 1958 Tr3, and that has been an eye opener, its fun to drive in a way that's just flat out been lost. it makes you realize that the feature list on a modern car is just distractions. the Tr has no radio, or even windows, but its not uncomfortable. it doesn't handle well, or go very fast, but there is a connection with the car, actually in a very similar way to the Rx7.

plus you're outside! its elemental

wankelgrandfather

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure there is someone out here with a modified FC in the 350+whp range that drives it quite often and that still appreciate it like before... I'd be curious to know what kind of set-up it can be, and whats left/added of the comfort amenities.

The banzai racing conv. is a good example of that for sure...

It may be related to FC, but I feel that there is not so much powerful AND civilized RX-7 around here. Tho quite a lot of FD owners are taking care of that in building their cars. Without being crazy with gadgets, I'd like to know some details. I don't care about the car show stuff like screens everywhere, etc. I am more curious about the mechanical or interior physical aspect...

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

its all in the set up and tuning, my car boosts, idles, and drives like it would have come out of the factory, at 18bs of boost on my tiny turbo it hit exactly 400hp, I have AC in the car. still havent gotten it working 100% yet due to it being a all custom set up
Its not that loud through the RB exhaust and pre-silencer, the new factory manual rack I put in it feels really nice as well. I dont have coil overs and I dont have crazy fitting wheels and my car is not super low, you can drive it anywhere, drive it nice and easy and you would think it was still a stock convertible . Has what I consider to be a nice slightly modified interior and modern lighting upgrades. it still has some squeeks here and there but for a 1988 I cant complain too much. When I want to do something on the car I take my time, I research it and I try to do it "once"

dont rush and plan the car in your mind from the start, plan it to be a quality car and if it takes you 2 years so be it, if it takes you another couple thousand dollars so be it.

just startn

iTrader: (33)

My vert made over 300hp, had RB DP and the rest of the exh. was stock. The guy i bought it from was over 60 and owned it for many years. It had a wonderful ride to it and comfy to say the least. Now that the car is going threw a extreme makeover i will be worried about paint ect. BUT before i re-did it i didnt drive it in the rain and never will or if the weather thinks about raining i dont drive it. I also never park in a parking lot and go into a store, never leave it alone unless its in the garage. I think your either a car enthusiest or a car follower. The enthusiest stay with the cars forever and it dosn't matter how much money, time it takes. Its a life style. I have sacraficed jobs, women, friends, alot of important time and things to do what i love to do. Folllowers come and go all the time. I personally dont mind heavy clutches, no a/c or p/s. I think it gets uncomfy when the interior is stripped and looks like hell on the inside. The car is so low you cant drive "normal". Putting retared wheels on it were the rim sticks out past the fender and the tire is streched. The biggest thing is the exhaust. Coming from someone who ran open DP on my DD for 3 years it gets old. It sucks when your on the highway for a long time and everything is cancelled out by the exhaust. Theres a happy medium for everything. 400hp is kinda mellow now days. Its like a "shoulder shrug". You can have a quiet, comfy, livable 400hp easy.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

400 wheel horsepower i wouldn't consider as alot, my TII is only barely shy of that and i just drove it 800 miles round trip a few days ago. the HKS coilovers do have something to be desired on bumpy roads though.

but the rest, the car isn't really all that loud, the exhaust doesn't come into the car on the freeway, the mileage is exceptional at ~23 mpg and it cruises at 80mph smoothly at that mileage.

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

I drive my 322 RWHP FC daily. It was tuned on two spark plugs at 12 psi... (Due to malfunction of a trailing coil.) I am sure I could hit 400 RWHP with more boost. I have the full stock interior, stock wheels and tires, and 87 octane pump gas.

I moved out here to Washington from Illinois in mid August, and drove it the whole way. 2,174 miles. I love my FC.

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

I get bored of my car just driving it to work everyday.

Taking it to the track makes it all worthwhile.

wankelgrandfather

iTrader: (2)

Well if you can do both, what is your set-up? Otherwise, if your just using it for the track, that is unfortunately not my cup of tea, even tho I highly respect that.

There is no track in my area (except drag strips, and I am not into that) and its not my priority to allow the necessary budget for track days during the summer, especially that I don't want to carry dirt tires in the car (if it even fits) and driving to the track with them tires will result in no rubber left at my arrival (3 hours drive).

So that is pretty much why I wanna be able to enjoy it as a street car. I am also fairly sure that a lot of people are in the same situation.

Thanks for the comment anyway.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

point is, you don't have to go overboard to make a streetable 400 wheel horsepower car.

wankelgrandfather

iTrader: (2)

You are right, plus I need more horsepower... We always do!

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

Just build a high horsepower daily driving "sleeper". Other than my FC2000 bumper, my car looks like a stock GXL.

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

I think "boring" is the wrong word for the title. More like "non-enjoyable". Driving an on-off switch is hardly fun. I have never been bored of my car, but I have never enjoyed it either. It would be nice to go for a cruise and look at the road and not the gauges.

I am slowly but surely adding stock components back to the car. I will even have a working twin scroll.

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

I would by no means call the FC boring. I care about it more than the other cars. I have invested a lot more time in it than my other vehicles. I watch the gauges in my daily drivers too and they are 2001 and 2011 models. That is part of driving like checking your mirrors, knowing fluid levels, tire pressures, etc.

To the OP:
Just try to build a balanced car. Don't go overboard in one area. Be realistic to yourself in what your priorities are. A number on a dyno doesn't mean much about how the car really is to drive. A stock TII just felt too slow to me, but I was into sport bikes when I first got into Rx-7s. The speed was something I was already used to. The FC was more fun than my previous "sporty" Subaru and 3000GT.

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

Although my FC doesn't have the over-blown 2-rotor, it's still in the 400+ hp range. It has always been a daily driver. (I can't afford a garage queen.) At the risk of ruffling some feathers, I'll offer the opinion that many guys, especially DIY-ers, go for max power without giving any thought to drivability. From Day One, the design specs for my car were for a daily driver.

With that said, I don't have to drive in stop-and-go traffic. If I had to commute in that kind of environment, I get some beater with an automatic transmission or ride a bus.

With regard to the "it's too nice" problem, just deal--unless you can afford to have a garage queen.

BTW, my other car is a 1st gen with a 390-rwhp, '87 T-II motor. It's also a daily driver.

So, yes, you can have a highly modified car AND enjoy driving it every day as long as you think a lot about the driving characteristics you want.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

basically attila is saying that a quality built car can easily be a daily, a bunch of parts thrown at a car can also be but you wont have that factory feel, the factory feel is what separates a quality car from the rest. But come on George with a stable like that the builds you create you could easily have a daily, lol

Wherever I go I end up sitting in traffic, people cutting into your lanes, **** flying up off the road, kicking up debris from the side of the road, toll booths, bridges, some of it when its 90 degrees out. You want a car that doesnt get on your nerves

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I think part of it is that when guys are figuring what parts they need, they ask for advice on the internet and whatever replies they get is what they end up doing. It's hard to form your own opinion about what is "too much" or even "too little" on your first big build. I know that has happened to me.

I have a Corolla I drive, since I am in a lot of stop-and-go. And that does make it tough because I can just start that thing and go, while the FC I am more mindful of how I drive it when it's cold etc. So driving the FC feels like a chore if I'm not doing anything sporty with it.

There is probably a larger % of FD owners with the "it's too nice" problem, while for the FC owner it might be "it's too extreme" in terms of ground clearance and such.

The thing that sucks is that these cars are so old now that driving them every day accelerates the wear even further. Things break at a fast rate when they are old and you are using them every day--FC electrical stuff is a good example. The power windows, plastic vents, door handles, clock, power window antenna, various switches and interior lights--my Corolla has 204k on it and hardly any of that stuff gives me problems. On a 1st gen that is a little less of an issue because a lot of them have very basic equipment.

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

You want a fun car? make sure it always looks clean, nice paint and good condition. Ive had the most fun with a car I could drive around comfortably on the street/go on dates etc.. Race car on the street just isn't going to be fun on the road . I had gutted the interior on an old car of mine when i was a few years younger, thought it was cool, turned out to hate it and realize it isn't that great on a street car.

Guys will build 400+hp cars and neglect to throw some suspension and brake upgrades on them, and faded paint. I guess I just like more balanced cars while still looking good and being fast.

You just have to have a goal with where you want to go with the car and where you want to take it. Alot of us in california, and well the car modding scene is real big out here, Just going to car meets is pretty good motivation to continue.

My goal for my fc is to make 350hp.
With modding, you have to worry about theft, and police out here. We can get stereotyped as the fast and furious street racing crowd real easily when your car is visually modified.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i used to daily drive my FC, considering most of the drivetrain is still original and now has over 210k miles on it.

the turbo diesel mercedes is now our daily driver since half the week we need a car for 3 people, 30mpg is also a plus as it's the only other car we own that beats the TII in fuel mileage.

Furb

iTrader: (2)

I have been modifying my car for 6 years now..

Made small steps forward and continuously engineering the next step

Making 400hp at the moment with an all-out custom v-mount setup and BNR stage 4.
The v-mount has improved driveability A LOT, as the cabin temp has dropped drastic!
Clutch isnt that heavy, unless you get into a 2-hour traffic jam..

I have now reached the point that i dont want more power, because i know that even more power equals more failure.. And 400hp is a real handfull!

I agree that over time you get the feeling you want to go back to basics. I plan on ripping out all the gauges, boostcontroller, and other stuff and upgrade to a newer style ECU with digital display unit that replaces them all, making the cockpit look more stock.

I have 2 mazda classics ('75 and '86 929) and now i know what normal driving is supposed to feel like..

With the FC it's almost impossible to drive slow, it wants to be revved :p the sound and acceleration are addictive, so that doesnt help either! LOL
The FC makes me escape from reality for a moment, and the feeling of driving something you built yourself can't be compared to anything

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps "poorly built" is the wrong choice of words. "Poorly designed" is probably more fair. A car can be very well built but still totally a wrong design for the purpose and it sounds like that's what happened here. Loud exhausts, laggy turbos, on/off clutches, stinky tunes are all things that are a bad design for a street car. Tolerable in a track car for sure. And that's part of the problem. Shoving race thinking into a street car is what causes people to mod cars to the point where they are undrivable.

Here's an awesome example. I tuned a GT35R 2nd gen last year that was beautifully built. Almost every detailed looked after, great body, nice wheels, good suspension, immaculate interior, easy clutch and had a good turbine choice which made it awesome for around town. But I wouldn't drive the car for more than 10 minutes. Why? Solid subframe mounts. The owner just went a bit too far into the "race" category. On every bump it felt like the car was going to shake apart and you could feel every grain of sand on the road.

And that's the problem. Goals have to be clearly decided at the beginning of a project. A car can be a street car driven on the track, which is pleasant and easy to live with. Or it can be a track car driven on the street, which has all the negatives you've mentioned. There is, however, a balance and it takes experience to know how to achieve it. Clutches are a perfect example as I mentioned. There are plenty of streetable clutches that can handle high torque, the builder just needs to know how to spec one out. I can't also speak for the skill of the drivers here, but even a stock upgraded suspension has such high limits that going to coil overs and all the other race goodies on a vehicle not 100% track dedicated is kind of crazy.

Ah, that's what sucks! But on the plus side, people are very willing to help. If you have an ECU with good logging features, then this forum can provide a lot of assistance. It's still going to be a steep learning curve if you don't have any tuning experience.

They are a dime a dozen here. Well, not literally, but are common enough. And that's a good point about HP levels on the street. As already mentioned in this thread, a 400+ HP RX-7 is ridiculously fast and dangerous. Go down a gear on the highway, plant the pedal, and you better be damn sure you have enough room because odds are the car is sideways. A 300HP 2nd gen is still a hell of a lot of fun and very easily achievable.

One has to drive according to the weather conditions. There's not much point pushing the fun pedal in any high HP car in the rain. The wheels just spin. Unless there's some kind of electronic nanny traction control in which case, why have a high HP car? The power band isn't on/off, a properly tuned and setup car will respond predictably to your throttle input.

Merging onto the highway under wide open throttle in a 400+ HP RX-7 is a dangerous thing to do anyway. It just takes a quick run through 3rd and 4th before doubling the speed limit and travelling too quickly to merge.

The beauty of EFI is that you don't need maps for every occasion. The low load areas of the map are tuned for drivability, the high load areas of the map are tuned for power and they blend together.

Some people like to have a high and low boost setting on their boost controllers. Personally I run this way, keeping it at 13PSI for daily driving. Keeps me out of too much trouble.

K!NCH

iTrader: (2)

This. I have an NA and I know it's slow, but pushing it as hard as possible is a lot of fun. I've driven/drifted friends 200-400hp 240sx and it's so easy it's almost boring.

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

K!NCH referring to:
The OP has already stated:

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

aaron makes a very good point- people put these solid mounts in and just wreck any enjoyment out of driving the car normally. But these same people usually have stupid loud exhausts and no interiors.

wankelgrandfather

iTrader: (2)

That's the point I guess! By building a car by yourself, it is really easy to make the wrong choices, especially that everyone is always speaking of high hp numbers and of radically modifying everything. I can clearly understand why, as the big part of the feeling lays in impressive power/handling/braking, but the balance is rarely discussed. It is quite hard to find the right thing to do! A California build is also really different in need than a Quebec build car, our streets have holes in them...

I know my goals: I want a street car that can perform well (and impress me). I want to do it to last long (I'll fix it if it broke) and I want to keep the car for a very long time (it my 5th RX-7, so I know what I am into). I know there is an achievable balance between street comfort and overall performance. I won't lie, I'm on a budget (like everyone at a point or another) and trying every suspension, clutch, turbos, and brakes set-ups to build my experience is simply impossible. But I got a lot of time and I am in no hurry. I am pretty much on my own with input i can gather in here and on another forum, and I would like to keep it that way as far as possible. Clearly I won't go see a shop to build it for me, so that's why I am having this discussion on that thread, and that's why I asked previously what are the balanced set-ups people got. Basically, the suspension is taught of, I don't have a clutch yet (but I think you pointed me in the right direction), I got to choose an ECU, and I also got a bunch of performance stuff laying around (I might have to change my T04R for something else tho).


I am pointing myself that way, even tho I would highly prefer an experienced tuner. What I fear the most is toasting a brand new engine, or a used one for that matter. I don't want to break anything, I want to do it right the first time. As they say I am too poor to buy or build crap... I want to keep it rotary and not end up like fc3s_Murray with 7 toasted rotary engine and a V8 rumbling under the bonnet.



Hahahaha! There is still a big part of me that just want to keep the 400whp goal, I want it to be ultimate fast, but 300whp may be just better for now so it could be my street boost setting, with 400 hp available easily...

I know more what seems to be the right way to do it, thanks for the information.

Thanks for you input Furb, your car is an example to follow.

K!NCH

iTrader: (2)

Didn't see that. But I'll stand with driving a slow car fast/well feels more rewarding.