kliftin

I TOOK OUT 6P SLEEVES THE OTHER DAY ALONG WITH THE RODS AND ACTUATORS. FOR THE ACTUATORS I COVERED THEM WITH A ROUND PIECE OF SHEET METAL, A DIME AND A WASHER. WORKED GREAT. BLOCKED OFF THE ACV PLACE WITH A CUSTOM PLATE FROM HOME DEPOT BUT WASNT THICK ENOUGHF. INTAKE LEAK. GOING TO CUT A PIECE TODAY. ANYWAYS MY RESULTS WERE BETTER THAN EXPECTED. I FELT NO DIFFERENCE IN LOW END. ACTUALLLY I POSSIBLY GAINED SOME. I DID THIS AT THE SAME TIME I TOOK MY AIR PUMP OUT AND POWER STEERIJNG SO MABEY IT WAS A TRADE OFF BUT I REALLY COULDNT TELL A DIFFERENCE DOWN THIER. AS FAR AS TOP END I COULD NOT TAKE IT PAST FOUR K BECAUSE OF MY INTAKE LEAK. IM GOING FOR IT TODAY THOUGH.

Jahoo88

Keep us updated!

How long did it take? Did you need to take any vacuum hoses off?

kliftin

it took no time to take the intakes and manifold off. Yes you have to take vacume hoses off. I can do everything in like 45 minutes with the right tools now. But reasembly takes longer. My first time I took a video cam to some things I thought I would forget. It came in handy about four times. Mark some of the vac hose locations. I always forget a couple every time but you can hear the hissing sometimes. Just plug them in. Thiers four bolts in the manifold and two nuts underneath. Alll work can be done above enging. Before you loosen man make sure to take off the two oil lines going into it. Really simple thou. Once the manifold slides off thier will be the sleeves that will slide out of the block. The rods were attached. Slide them out. Use a hammer if necessary then find a way to creatively close the hole. I cant tell you how I did mine, I was just creative. Im going to wash my car and take it for a spin to test my acv plate.

Suparslinc

I have to say something here;
on one hand, theres you, who doesn't seem to know a whole lot of mechanical stuff. I don't know for sure, but just a hunch.
And you are taking advice on removing the vacuum spyder, VDI, upper and lower manifold, auxilary port sleeve assembly, fuel injector rails, etc etc off; all from some guy who still cant get his back together to run right.
Unbelievable. You guys really need to think this stuff through.
I've said it before, even if your 5th and 6th ports don't work, the car will run fine.
This IS NOT an easy job. Ask Jeremy whatshisface he had to reassemble his intake 3 or 4 times before stopping the vacuum leak. I barely got my car to run at all and even now it simply will not hold idle as well as it did before.
This is more than a shadetree mechanics job. You will need about $50 in gaskets and nobody will have them in stock. Your car will be down for a week unless somehow you get all the right parts from the beginning. And no, you do not need any sealant on the gaskets. Just make sure you don't put them in upside down.
You also have to remove the air funnel, air pump, actuators plus a little screw that strips out if you look at it funny, I would never have gotten my car back together without some really really good help. Look I'm not trying to sound condensending I know what you are trying to do I just hope you have more mechanical experience that it sounds like and I really don't recommend taking the intake apart in the first place unless you have to, on top of that I disagree with removing the aux. ports, and if you drop a nut or screw into that intake then kiss your engine goodbye.

Jahoo88

What gaskets do u need? Upper and lower cost $10 alltogether!, what else??

As long as everything is labelled, meaning hoses then it should be all fine.

Im gonna do it soon too, cant be that hard.

Ive changed my oil before so im good at mechanicals! j/k This would be some serious work but I'll get her done someday soon.

kliftin

Like you said. Dont take it off unless you have to. I had to replace a harness in my 89 because mine almost caught on fire and a shop quoted me 600 dollers. I was laid off for 2 months as was my car and had no choice. Im 20 but took 3 yrs auto shop in high school as well as a few months perf and emision controll ROP. I dont know much but these clases gave me lots of common sense. When I first started I video taped my work as well as taged vac hoses. I also baged nuts in thier class like manifold upper/ lower exc. I did this three times but now I can do it with my eyes closed. The spyder diag or whatever im asuming is a bunch of metal tubes with rubber hoses. Thats easy as hell to tell where thier going because you dont have to take the hoses out both sides They pretty much aling them selves. The gasket only goes on one way on my 89 and they were brand new from my rebuild I just had 10,000 miles ago. I did drop a round rubber boot from the injector down the manifold runner but never entered the engin. My car runs, idles revs better than ever now because of my work and was very rewarding. I recomend anyone whos willing to do , uuu to do it. As long as they have the time and money to possibly buy little parts. It dosent take a genious but you can run in to trouble I understand that. I ran in to trouble but nothing I couldnt handle.

For everyone else. I took my car out with the new acv plate. It ran little better. All I have thou is race pipe,catback,filter with fc3s.org custom cold air box. (That was fun). I cant hear a leak but when I took it to 7.2k I noticed it didnt pop or backfire like it used to. I had a feeling I might be running lean so I shot carb cleaner on the acv plate and actuator plate. ****.... STILL HAVE A LEAK. I gues im going to buy the plate from MT or RB. I Dont know what im going to do about the actuator plate thou. Its not that bad of a leak.

Question----Thier was a terible hissing that came from this already partially pluged vac line just above the ACV. It already had a hole in it but since I took out the acv its sucking in air big frickin time. I plugged it and idle whent down to 500 again, less with lights on. What the hell. I will leave it pluged but am wondering why this is. If I can rig it somewere and what the hell.

kliftin

Yo jahoo88. If I was thier we can probly finish it by tonight. Not joking. You will need more time your first try.

Jahoo88

Ok i'm waiting for upper and lower gaskets, should be in soon. Are there any other gaskets/parts im missing?

I'll try to fab somekind of block off plates while im waiting and do it this weekend if i get the stuff.

I hope i dont break any vacuum hoses but those arent hard to get. Once again, any other parts needed? I need this to be a 1 weekend job max cause i need my car for school.

skibum9199

hey kliftin, hows the fuel economy now? any change? I just dont see why mazda would have put in 6 ports if they didnt have some purpose, other than to freeze up and stop working. I would like to hear from someone who does just this mod, not 3 at one time. I just want to know what this mod alone will gain... Also, it seems to me that you are still going to have turbulance from the way the air flows through where the valve used to be... now its an ampty cylinder with a hole in one side and an open end, right? How bout a custom insert that made the transition nice ans smooth? This would speed up airflow as well as increase volume Also, how is the high end now(after all leaks are fixed)?


thanks!

~Jesse

Suparslinc

Believe it or not, the ports for the intake are actually fairly smooth. Its the cylinders that make it blocky. However, if they rotate completely open like they are supposed to do, I'd imagine the air flow would be just as good. My '84 is a 4-port engine, and I really prefer the powerband of it; a nice smooth climb all the way to seven grand; more lower and middle torque; its just generally a smoother feeling engine that doesn't have to be ran like a racehorse to make good power.
The six port design they started using on the GSL-SE's and N/A FC's really bumped the power band up too high; even designed to give low end torque when closed these engines really have none to speak off; and you have to wind the engine out SO HIGH to make power; I dunno.
i would be more than happy to try this mod but having the intake apart once was more than enough for me.

kliftin

Your right about that. I thought about that to. A good way to defeat that hole from the rod is to cut the rod that came out of it. The reason why I didnt is because I plan on buying someones already ported and polished intakes. I also wouldnt think you can tell a diff with the turb it creates until your maxed out on mods. I dont know for sure but just trying to be realistic. As far as fixing the leak. Nope still a leak but you cant hear it unless I spray the spot with carb cleaner. Im going to buy the racing beat plate later. I did take it for a run thou. I think I gained some low end. I noticed I dont bog or stumble as much . As far as top end I do feel a slight difference but you have to remember , I only have a bonez race pipe and cat back with bonez filter. I made the custom cold air box and took out the ps at the same time. Im serious. It feels more streetable and has a quality feel. Mazdaspeed 7 was right. I have a feeling when I start getting more bolt ons that Im going to be getting bigger differences out of them with these sleeves removed. All in all if someone says rmoving sleeves looses low end considerably , thier probly thinking its the same as wiring them open wich its not. If your seriouse about your n/a then you should do it. As for the power steering , dont do it if your a wus. I have to use two hands now to turn it and my custom spikes in the steering well make it hard as hell. Oh ,and another thing , I noticed I wasnt poping at high rpms wich means im running lean I think because of the leak so I Dindnt really push it. When ITs fixed I will call back.

Dak

When you order the RB ACV cover plate order a gasket for it as well.Should have any leaks around the plate then.I'm going to pull my sleeves out eventually.I'm just not in a big hurry to tear my intakes back apart.I got some spares that I'm going to polish the lower one of if I ever get around to it.Then I'll pull my sleeves when I put it on.

mazdaspeed7

I removed the 6 port sleeves and ACV from my car. For the 6 port leeves, I fabricated a plate out of a 1/8" aluminum plate. I cut gasket material to the same size as the plate,and then used gasket sealer on that so I didnt get any leaks. For the ACV, I made a plate out of sheet steel from the top of a 55 gallon drum. I also used gasket material and gasket sealer on that no, and no leaks there either.

defylogik

sometimes experimentation with your car can lead to good things. btw, will a leaky intake manifold gasket lead to poor 1/4 mile times?

scott

SpeedRacer

Your car is no longer backfiring, because you removed your ACV and airpump. It happens, same thing with my car, it used to backfire, like a **** after putting on my racepipe. After removing the airpump and ACV it went away, for the most part. The ACV(supplied with air from the airpump) blows fresh air into your Catylitic converter via the SAP(although neither of us have a cat) and it also shoots air directly other places which helps add to yout backfire...if you adjust your dashpot, you could probably make it backfire again if you really wanted to.

Taking the 6-port sleeves out really isn't THAT difficult for somebody who knows about cars, but I definently don't recommend just ANYONE doing it. This was one of the first MAJOR things I underwent on my car. I had done intake, exhaust before and I could tune up a car, but that was about it. Anyways I had a HELL of a time getting my car running again because I was stupid and didn't research it enough. I didn't realize I was going to need gaskets, etc...But if you do, do it, make sure you have the lower manifold to engine gasket, lower to upper manifold gasket, expansion/extension chamber to upper manifold gasket, the throttle body rubber ring thingy might need a replacing as well, get new o-rings and grommets for your fuel inejectors, while the fuel injectors are out, be VERY careful with them, cover them up so they don't get dirty..maybe even soak them in degreaser overnight(I did), If you drop something into your intake runners, for gods sake don't leave it...(I dropped a fuel injector grommet, and had to take a bunch of **** off again to get to it. Make sure you label your vaccuum lines(I don't have to anymore, cause I 've done it SOOOO many times). You may want to replace your vacuum hose with silicon cause old hose tends to crack and brake the seal when removed for the first time in a long time. Fixing my 6-ports ended up being a job that took me weeks to do..here is why. I took all the manifolds and tried to get the rods out of the lower intake....one was totally stuck...I tried everything and eventually had the rod all bent to ****..eventually had to get a used intake manifold. Turns out, that intake manifold was cracked...had to get a 3rd Intake manifold..put everything back together, with shitty gaskets, and old vacuum hose..couldn't get my car to hold an idle unless I kept the revs above 4k, and it was still bouncy..took everything apart ordered gaskets, took awhile to get them all. Replaced gaskets, still had intake leak, but not as bad. Replaced o-rings, grommets, soaked fuel injecotrs, got new ACV gasket, replaced vacuum hose with silicon...finally after several weeks and at least 5-7 times of stripping the manifolds I got my car running normal again. Keep in mind, I was a moron..If you have everything you need and are careful you probably won't have these problems, just be aware a lot of things can go wrong if you don't know what you are doing.

mazdaspeed7

Kliftin, if youre worried about your car running lean, pull your leading spark plugs and look at them. Normally, they should be beown to black, but little or no soot or deposits on it. The ceramic part just below the center electrode should be smooth, and tan to brown.

My car is running pretty lean, but I dont get any pinging with 89 octane. My spark plugs are always tan, with some white areas on the outer part, and the center electrode and ceramic insulator looks sand blasted. I will try to get a digital camera so I can post some pics.

And the trailing plugs dont show much about how lean or rich your engine is running. The leading ones are much easier to read.

Defylogik, an intake leak shouldnt affect your 1/4 times that much. Mostly, it throws off your idle. If its a big enough leak, the engine wont idle, much like a blown engine.

Everyone else who is considering doing this, do not just get or make the cover plates and bolt them on. Get a shet of high temp gasket material, and cut gaskets for each of the cover plates with an exacto knife, etc. Then use gasket sealer on both sides of the gaskets. This will make leaks very unlikely. Also, buy all new intake gaskets, the big o-ring that goes on the intake elbow(between the TB and the black plastic elbow), fuel injector o-rings, and new vacuum hoses would be a good idea too. Another good idea would be to take some carb cleaner and spray it into the plastic diffusers that sit below the fuel injectors. DO NOT remove them though. They are very important.

kliftin

IN that case my spark plugs must of been slightly rich. Its brown to black. I must have a good engin because I didnt run into any of these probs. I didnt buy or replace anything and was roughf with my injectors because they were pissing me off.

Mazdaspeed7-- I thought higher octoane gas prevents pinging. My manual says nothing but 92 octane. Why do people use 89. Doesent it cause carb deposits or something.

Speedracer said he droped his rubber injector boot in his intake. Thats funny, so did I.

mazdaspeed7

Kliftin, Im running lean b/c all my mods pushed me past the limits of the fuel system, even with the 550 cc secondaries.

Actually, the n/a rotaries were designed to run on 83, yes 83, octane without pinging. 87 is usually the best for n/a's unless you have pinging from having the timing advanced(I did, thats why I started using 89). I would use 93, but I cat tell any difference in performance between 89 and 93, and I dont have much money to blow on higher octane gas than I need. I could probably advance my timing farther, and use 93, and notice a difference, but I dont really want to.

kliftin

sounds dangerouse with your timing advance. Are you thinking about getting an md chip. Seems safer.

SpeedRacer

Kliftin - did you jump up and down and start swearing after dropping you fuel injector boot into your intake like I did? I was so pissed, cause I had just finished bolting on the intake when I dropped it..!@#$ sonofa !@#, G!@# damn moth!#$#%

kliftin

yes becasue I was looking around the engin for an hour before I started believing it could be in the intake. I was also scared that it fell in the engin. Luckily it stoped 2 inches becore the engin intake.

mazdaspeed7

I run 89 octane and do not get any pinging, so its safe. I dont plan on getting a MD race chip because Im getting a haltech pretty soon. It would be a waste of money and I wouldnt use it for long. Actually though, the MD chips require 92 octane, and are much more prone to pinging if a lower octane is used or you get bad gas, so my current setup is a little safer than a MD chip

Suparslinc

Mazdaspeed7 you are right about the 83 octane; now if I could only find some for about $1.25. . .
Like most fairly modern cars, the RX-7 automatically advances the timing as your RPM's rise. So it is not necessary to advance the timing as I understand it.
However I have heard that rotaries even in stock form will benefit from 1-2 degrees of advance; no more. My best guess is this means the timing will continue to advance automatically, but only further than it normally would at a given engine speed. I don't know much about your mods and such but I would guess advanced timing couldn't hurt; what kind of differences in performance did you see?