Who makes an adaptor plate for a t56? And which T56?
04-01-10, 09:19 AM
#27
On flats
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bewtew,
I PM'ed you before, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Can you please post or PM the pricing for the machined adapter plate and the cost of the machining on the bell housing?
I'm also interested in your impression of your flywheel/clutch setup. The flywheel is an unorthodox unit, right?
That's all I need. The transmission brace, driveshaft, and torque arm are going to have to be taken care of on my end due to the geometry of my setup.
Thanks.
ryan
I PM'ed you before, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Can you please post or PM the pricing for the machined adapter plate and the cost of the machining on the bell housing?
I'm also interested in your impression of your flywheel/clutch setup. The flywheel is an unorthodox unit, right?
That's all I need. The transmission brace, driveshaft, and torque arm are going to have to be taken care of on my end due to the geometry of my setup.
Thanks.
ryan
04-01-10, 12:42 PM
#28
bewtew,
I PM'ed you before, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Can you please post or PM the pricing for the machined adapter plate and the cost of the machining on the bell housing?
I'm also interested in your impression of your flywheel/clutch setup. The flywheel is an unorthodox unit, right?
That's all I need. The transmission brace, driveshaft, and torque arm are going to have to be taken care of on my end due to the geometry of my setup.
Thanks.
ryan
I PM'ed you before, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Can you please post or PM the pricing for the machined adapter plate and the cost of the machining on the bell housing?
I'm also interested in your impression of your flywheel/clutch setup. The flywheel is an unorthodox unit, right?
That's all I need. The transmission brace, driveshaft, and torque arm are going to have to be taken care of on my end due to the geometry of my setup.
Thanks.
ryan
As for the ones that want a bolt on kit i'm working on it but please be patient.. i want to make sure that everything works as far as the back up lights, speedometer and such
04-01-10, 12:55 PM
#29
Rotary Enthusiast
Chris
12-08-11, 05:09 PM
#34
http://www.chipsmotorsports.com/prod...ansmission-kit
this is an nice kit.
im saving for a kit aswell.
this is an nice kit.
im saving for a kit aswell.
01-21-12, 12:19 PM
#35
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
what follows is just a copy from an earlier thread. it does have pictures which might be of help to some. if you read the post you will note that it was not my intention to offer a "kit." i may have posted something to the contrary but i do offer the adapter plate and all of the other parts can be easily sourced using the links in my post.
i am not aggressively trying to sell the adapters but if someone wants one i can supply the plate.
finally, i just want to express my satisfaction w the T56 setup. it has been a couple of years and from the getgo the trans was and is invisable in my FD.
howard
let me start w the caution that while the rotary is simple the $s start adding up as you add more air and fuel.
my transmission solution is not inexpensive but it is stout, and provides significant gearing advantages. while i will offer for sale the adapter plate, the other items will need to be acquired independently and there is a modest amount of machine shop time.
so why go through all the effort and expense?
the FD arrived on the showroom floor producing 184 SAE foot pounds of torque.
500 SAE rwhp FDs produce 400 foot pounds and lots of stripped 3rd gear teeth and twisted mainshafts. if you really crank up the boost and are drag racing you will be replacing trans as often as changing your oil.
then there's the gearing
yikes!
a 3.483 first gear? great for pulling stumps. not great for doing anything but getting into second. and second? what's w a 42% drop in revs?, third a 31% drop and then the really long drop to 5th which is pretty much an economy run gear.
plainly stated the gearing sucks.
practical alternative trans options do not abound. there are all the racing trans options but they do not have syncros and after living w that type of box in my real racecar for 6 seasons, trust me, you don't want to be anywhere near one for the street. they are also really expensive. and you will eat up interior pieces and get to know the nice people at the trans shop far too well.
there is the fairly high dollar Toyota box. Getrag. nice gear spacing, nice syncros, stout but generally available around 4K++ just for the box.
i zeroed in on the Tremec T56. modern engineering, available at a junk yard near you for between $800-$2000. (there is the totally redone new T56 called the Magnum which sells new for less than 3K which is a bargain).
the T56 is often found in F body Camaros and later in the GTO. lots around. the Camaro has better ratios and the GTO has better syncros. i have a 99 F body Camaro trans that i am purposely installing to see how the syncros actually work at 8000. and for the ratios.
i am indebted to Jered Olson (IronMdnx) for alot of the engineering on the project. the T56 is just a touch too wide to clear the starter so he figured by using the auto bell housing the starter would point forward and clear the trans. one smart solution from a very very smart guy. WTG Jered.
so i had the benefit of his initial install which he kindly shared.
so here's how i did mine...
auto rear iron. necessary (i think) to mount the starter.. maybe you could do some mod work on the standard rear iron if you were creative.
auto rear bellhousing. machine .25 of an inch off the rear face to move the input shaft further into the stock pilot bearing. machine a small opening on the driver's side for the 2 dash 3 hydraulic clutch actuating lines.
bolt on my adapter plate ($375)
find an auto trans flex plate for your flywheel (and an auto starter).
call QuarterMaster. talk w Geoff Tickes (847-540-8999 ext 250) tell him Howard suggested you call.
you will need a button flywheel(less than $200), the 8.5 double disc(less than $900) , a driveshaft (around $3-400) and a small button to flywheel adapter and the Tri Lite clutch release bearing (around $300). i am uncertain on exact pricing. that's between you and QM, i am just trying to be of help.
here's the clutch release bearing. custom setup for proper clearance w the pressure plate. adapter plate is drilled/tapped for it...
the clutch is neat. clutch spring pressure is your call between 1800 pounds and 3000. it depends on your app. i don't drag race but needed a clutch to hold 600 rw so i am running, initially 2250 spring pressure which is the same as my wonderful Exedy cerametallic that wouldn't work in this app. unlike the racing apps my clutch has thicker friction material... the "rally" option. the clutch has 18% more frictional surface than my old Exedy. more surface, less spring pressure. win win.
auto flywheel counterweight 4.02 pounds
auto flywheel 4.8 pounds
ACT lightweight FW 9 pounds plus CW = 13.02
QM pressure plate w button 18.8 pounds.
Exedy single cerametallic 27.6 pounds
you will need to buy a short clutch master cylinder. .75 piston. Willwood, Tilton AP take your pick. about $100.
whether you use an F body or GTO box you will need to get the GTO linkage assembly. it situates the shifter rearward 2.5 inches and locates it exactly in the center of the Mazda rectangular shifter hole.
you will need a rear trans mount. i spent some time on this as i didn't like anything i saw. i wanted nothing sticking down underneath my car. so all trans mounts that bolted across the tunnel were out. secondly i wanted no interference w my exhaust. i ended up w a very short (9 inches or so) mount that sits high under the tailshaft. it angles higher on the pass side to clear the exhaust. i will have a 4 inch by 4 inch stainless steel plate on the interior of my car which will be the sandwhich plate. i could have ripped out the carpet and mounted it under the carpet but that was too much work for me. i have no problem w a tidy stainless plate in the car. you may feel otherwise. feel free to have at it.
the FD driveshaft has always been a source of irritation. no option to replace worn U joints? are you kidding me? the new (aluminum) driveshaft has replaceable joints and is good for 1000 hp. it weighs 12.6 pounds V 15.
rebuildable...
then there is the PPF and what to do. i am extremely happy w my solution. after looking at all kinds of torque arms etc i decided i wanted none of them. bulky, heavy and stressing things i didn't want further stressed... trans tailshaft and trans mount. i called Justin Samberg and he had exactly what i wanted. he delivered his usual masterpiece on time and on quote. around $500. it solved all my problems and installed in 30 minutes. i also hear from the FDV8 guys that the Samberg subframe hooks up (launch not love) significantly better than the torque arm options. PPF weighs 4 pounds more than the Samberg subframe.
that's pretty much it from a hardware aspect. i just have to reassemble my motor and bolt everything in.
one of the more challenging items was the adapter plate. the quick summary is that it took almost 2 months and a grand to get it exactly right. it is so centered that the input shaft has about a thou clearance to the FD bearing and you can turn the crank without turning the input shaft. this will all make contact once up and running of course but it is dead nuts. to promote deeper penetration of the input shaft into the pilot bearing the adapter plate is 3/8.
you will want to grind a couple of tabs off the trans. (you can see this in the pics.)
a Dakota Digital convertor box will zero in the speedo. ($75)
back to gearing:
let's assume we shift at 7800:
we reach
............................................FD.... .......................T56 F body
second gear at..................4512.......................... 5219
third gear..........................5384................ ...........5696
fourth gear.........................5607................. ........6000
fifth gear.............................5608............. .............5772
who do you think wins the race?
FWIW, i have designed my ports so i make 400 SAE rwhp at 5500. the rotary makes great power up top but if when you shift you could be driving a Yugo you have a problem. the F Body T56, with it's closer ratios helps the rotary given it's narrower torque band.
horsepower under the curve wins races. the T56 gearing puts the curve better into the narrow powerband of the rotary.
finally, that's how i did it. feel free to do it differently, maybe better.
that's it for now. road reports when we actually get it going soon.
howard
i am not aggressively trying to sell the adapters but if someone wants one i can supply the plate.
finally, i just want to express my satisfaction w the T56 setup. it has been a couple of years and from the getgo the trans was and is invisable in my FD.
howard
let me start w the caution that while the rotary is simple the $s start adding up as you add more air and fuel.
my transmission solution is not inexpensive but it is stout, and provides significant gearing advantages. while i will offer for sale the adapter plate, the other items will need to be acquired independently and there is a modest amount of machine shop time.
so why go through all the effort and expense?
the FD arrived on the showroom floor producing 184 SAE foot pounds of torque.
500 SAE rwhp FDs produce 400 foot pounds and lots of stripped 3rd gear teeth and twisted mainshafts. if you really crank up the boost and are drag racing you will be replacing trans as often as changing your oil.
then there's the gearing
yikes!
a 3.483 first gear? great for pulling stumps. not great for doing anything but getting into second. and second? what's w a 42% drop in revs?, third a 31% drop and then the really long drop to 5th which is pretty much an economy run gear.
plainly stated the gearing sucks.
practical alternative trans options do not abound. there are all the racing trans options but they do not have syncros and after living w that type of box in my real racecar for 6 seasons, trust me, you don't want to be anywhere near one for the street. they are also really expensive. and you will eat up interior pieces and get to know the nice people at the trans shop far too well.
there is the fairly high dollar Toyota box. Getrag. nice gear spacing, nice syncros, stout but generally available around 4K++ just for the box.
i zeroed in on the Tremec T56. modern engineering, available at a junk yard near you for between $800-$2000. (there is the totally redone new T56 called the Magnum which sells new for less than 3K which is a bargain).
the T56 is often found in F body Camaros and later in the GTO. lots around. the Camaro has better ratios and the GTO has better syncros. i have a 99 F body Camaro trans that i am purposely installing to see how the syncros actually work at 8000. and for the ratios.
i am indebted to Jered Olson (IronMdnx) for alot of the engineering on the project. the T56 is just a touch too wide to clear the starter so he figured by using the auto bell housing the starter would point forward and clear the trans. one smart solution from a very very smart guy. WTG Jered.
so i had the benefit of his initial install which he kindly shared.
so here's how i did mine...
auto rear iron. necessary (i think) to mount the starter.. maybe you could do some mod work on the standard rear iron if you were creative.
auto rear bellhousing. machine .25 of an inch off the rear face to move the input shaft further into the stock pilot bearing. machine a small opening on the driver's side for the 2 dash 3 hydraulic clutch actuating lines.
bolt on my adapter plate ($375)
find an auto trans flex plate for your flywheel (and an auto starter).
call QuarterMaster. talk w Geoff Tickes (847-540-8999 ext 250) tell him Howard suggested you call.
you will need a button flywheel(less than $200), the 8.5 double disc(less than $900) , a driveshaft (around $3-400) and a small button to flywheel adapter and the Tri Lite clutch release bearing (around $300). i am uncertain on exact pricing. that's between you and QM, i am just trying to be of help.
here's the clutch release bearing. custom setup for proper clearance w the pressure plate. adapter plate is drilled/tapped for it...
the clutch is neat. clutch spring pressure is your call between 1800 pounds and 3000. it depends on your app. i don't drag race but needed a clutch to hold 600 rw so i am running, initially 2250 spring pressure which is the same as my wonderful Exedy cerametallic that wouldn't work in this app. unlike the racing apps my clutch has thicker friction material... the "rally" option. the clutch has 18% more frictional surface than my old Exedy. more surface, less spring pressure. win win.
auto flywheel counterweight 4.02 pounds
auto flywheel 4.8 pounds
ACT lightweight FW 9 pounds plus CW = 13.02
QM pressure plate w button 18.8 pounds.
Exedy single cerametallic 27.6 pounds
you will need to buy a short clutch master cylinder. .75 piston. Willwood, Tilton AP take your pick. about $100.
whether you use an F body or GTO box you will need to get the GTO linkage assembly. it situates the shifter rearward 2.5 inches and locates it exactly in the center of the Mazda rectangular shifter hole.
you will need a rear trans mount. i spent some time on this as i didn't like anything i saw. i wanted nothing sticking down underneath my car. so all trans mounts that bolted across the tunnel were out. secondly i wanted no interference w my exhaust. i ended up w a very short (9 inches or so) mount that sits high under the tailshaft. it angles higher on the pass side to clear the exhaust. i will have a 4 inch by 4 inch stainless steel plate on the interior of my car which will be the sandwhich plate. i could have ripped out the carpet and mounted it under the carpet but that was too much work for me. i have no problem w a tidy stainless plate in the car. you may feel otherwise. feel free to have at it.
the FD driveshaft has always been a source of irritation. no option to replace worn U joints? are you kidding me? the new (aluminum) driveshaft has replaceable joints and is good for 1000 hp. it weighs 12.6 pounds V 15.
rebuildable...
then there is the PPF and what to do. i am extremely happy w my solution. after looking at all kinds of torque arms etc i decided i wanted none of them. bulky, heavy and stressing things i didn't want further stressed... trans tailshaft and trans mount. i called Justin Samberg and he had exactly what i wanted. he delivered his usual masterpiece on time and on quote. around $500. it solved all my problems and installed in 30 minutes. i also hear from the FDV8 guys that the Samberg subframe hooks up (launch not love) significantly better than the torque arm options. PPF weighs 4 pounds more than the Samberg subframe.
that's pretty much it from a hardware aspect. i just have to reassemble my motor and bolt everything in.
one of the more challenging items was the adapter plate. the quick summary is that it took almost 2 months and a grand to get it exactly right. it is so centered that the input shaft has about a thou clearance to the FD bearing and you can turn the crank without turning the input shaft. this will all make contact once up and running of course but it is dead nuts. to promote deeper penetration of the input shaft into the pilot bearing the adapter plate is 3/8.
you will want to grind a couple of tabs off the trans. (you can see this in the pics.)
a Dakota Digital convertor box will zero in the speedo. ($75)
back to gearing:
let's assume we shift at 7800:
we reach
............................................FD.... .......................T56 F body
second gear at..................4512.......................... 5219
third gear..........................5384................ ...........5696
fourth gear.........................5607................. ........6000
fifth gear.............................5608............. .............5772
who do you think wins the race?
FWIW, i have designed my ports so i make 400 SAE rwhp at 5500. the rotary makes great power up top but if when you shift you could be driving a Yugo you have a problem. the F Body T56, with it's closer ratios helps the rotary given it's narrower torque band.
horsepower under the curve wins races. the T56 gearing puts the curve better into the narrow powerband of the rotary.
finally, that's how i did it. feel free to do it differently, maybe better.
that's it for now. road reports when we actually get it going soon.
howard
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 01-21-12 at 12:24 PM.
04-11-12, 05:41 PM
#36
To add to this thread please ping me if you are interested in the new Magnum T56's which are the latest 6speeds out for a reasonable price.
It is essentially like the new TR6060 Tremec transmission and has been available since 2011 as this custom configuration. Similar to the one which is found in the 2010+ Camaro; however it doesn't have a remote shifter as it was designed as a replacement for the Fbody Camaro unit. It also uses a new front bearing plate as a removable bellhousing can be used (factory TR6060 5th gen Camaro has a fixed bellhousing/bearing plate as 1 unit). The rear tailhousing is also different so the shifter stays in the stock Fbody location ('92-02) and eliminates the Camaro TR6060 3 bolt flange at the tailshaft where the dshaft would attach. This trans is approx 1.9" longer than an Fbody/GTO; however there are shifter options to put it where you need it. In LS conversions on the FC and FD that extra 1.9" back helps as the T56 shifter location makes you punch the center of the dash by the stereo in 1st/3rd/5th.
It is miles better than an FBody/GTO trans in terms of strength and is smoother shifting, eliminates the key system, has the same gear ratios as the Fbody T56 (2.66 1st and same 2nd-4th) however it has a closer .80 5th and .63 6th ratio to keep you in the powerband when shifting from 4th-5th. The gear faces themselves are also wider and of a better quality steel, the shafts are a better material and the mainshaft/output shaft is 31 spline vs. 27 spline. A factory T56 has many shortcomings from the factory as better parts were developed over time which can be added during a rebuild.... but even after doing so the new Magnum T56 is leaps and bounds stronger and also offers smoother shifting.
The stock T56 seems to have a limit of around 600rwhp. The Magnum T56 (TR6060) is closer to 900rwhp. They rate it for less as that as it would be in a 3800lb+ car launching on slicks with no failures.
How the TREMEC® T-56 MAGNUM 6-Speed is improved.
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...s_improved.htm
That link above is not me; however it is a good read... if you are interested in one please email me. Can ship worldwide. I'm not on here consistently and can answer other questions as well regarding T56's and TR6060's: gnx7@hotmail.com
If it tells you anything... I'm removing a built T56 from my LS7 powered FD to install a new Magnum. For the closer 5th gear ratio, increased strength, and smoother shifting. The trans also features an internal pump that can be tapped for an oil cooler bung. The old T56 unit has no internal pump and under very high power the oil would migrate to the rear of the transmission allowing for excessive heat buildup in the front section (under drag racing/highway pulls) where oil is lacking in the proper quantity. The new TR6060 design sprays up front on the gears where they need the cooling/buffer.
It is essentially like the new TR6060 Tremec transmission and has been available since 2011 as this custom configuration. Similar to the one which is found in the 2010+ Camaro; however it doesn't have a remote shifter as it was designed as a replacement for the Fbody Camaro unit. It also uses a new front bearing plate as a removable bellhousing can be used (factory TR6060 5th gen Camaro has a fixed bellhousing/bearing plate as 1 unit). The rear tailhousing is also different so the shifter stays in the stock Fbody location ('92-02) and eliminates the Camaro TR6060 3 bolt flange at the tailshaft where the dshaft would attach. This trans is approx 1.9" longer than an Fbody/GTO; however there are shifter options to put it where you need it. In LS conversions on the FC and FD that extra 1.9" back helps as the T56 shifter location makes you punch the center of the dash by the stereo in 1st/3rd/5th.
It is miles better than an FBody/GTO trans in terms of strength and is smoother shifting, eliminates the key system, has the same gear ratios as the Fbody T56 (2.66 1st and same 2nd-4th) however it has a closer .80 5th and .63 6th ratio to keep you in the powerband when shifting from 4th-5th. The gear faces themselves are also wider and of a better quality steel, the shafts are a better material and the mainshaft/output shaft is 31 spline vs. 27 spline. A factory T56 has many shortcomings from the factory as better parts were developed over time which can be added during a rebuild.... but even after doing so the new Magnum T56 is leaps and bounds stronger and also offers smoother shifting.
The stock T56 seems to have a limit of around 600rwhp. The Magnum T56 (TR6060) is closer to 900rwhp. They rate it for less as that as it would be in a 3800lb+ car launching on slicks with no failures.
How the TREMEC® T-56 MAGNUM 6-Speed is improved.
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Techn...s_improved.htm
That link above is not me; however it is a good read... if you are interested in one please email me. Can ship worldwide. I'm not on here consistently and can answer other questions as well regarding T56's and TR6060's: gnx7@hotmail.com
If it tells you anything... I'm removing a built T56 from my LS7 powered FD to install a new Magnum. For the closer 5th gear ratio, increased strength, and smoother shifting. The trans also features an internal pump that can be tapped for an oil cooler bung. The old T56 unit has no internal pump and under very high power the oil would migrate to the rear of the transmission allowing for excessive heat buildup in the front section (under drag racing/highway pulls) where oil is lacking in the proper quantity. The new TR6060 design sprays up front on the gears where they need the cooling/buffer.
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