The Autronic has more inputs, outputs, autotune, better logger, but it needs a multiplexer,and a good CDI to run, so the cost goes in the $350 range + cost of wideband.

The Haltech is more widely used, it has less inputs, outputs, but better customer support ( very important, unless you are well experienced with the SM4), no need for multiplexer, and it is $1500 cheaper.

Unless you will be hooking up 3 EGts, oil temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure, exhaust backpressure, etc to the ecu, go with the E11V2.

 

Are we talking about an SM2 or the SM4?
Got any hard numbers for them?


-Ted

 

SM4.
And I missed a zero ($3500)

 

Lets compare apples to apples. You have to spend money on ignition and a wideband with the AEM and Haltech too. As far as the multiplexer goes, I was told by a dealer a few months ago that it will a couple hundred at most. Therefore the SM4 should come in at about $1,000 over the cost of the AEM.

I would like to believe AEM has sorted out all the bugs, but that thread I linked where they recorded erratic timing with a piece of equipment that probably costs more than the ecu itself is from December.

 

My only experience with AEM was with the C2Di, and based on that I will go elsewhere for my electronics needs.

As I was told by my local dealer, the autronic SM4 does not need a CDI. He commented that was an advantage of the SM4 over the SM2 in that you didn't need a box like the 500R b/c the SM4 had dwell control built into handle coil charging....

I am planning to go the Autronic route currently, but will likely not purchase for another few months when I am further along in my project on the outside chance that something newer happens along.


As to the comments about seeing Motec on the race cars... Here again, no one said Motec wasn't better, just not worth the cost FOR A STREET CAR, so please don't talk about formula race cars.

Tell us then what you guys paid for the ECU when you purchased them new from Motec 'cause that's what we're talking about right? Making the decison to purchase new from Motec over another company. I don't think we're talking about purchasing a car that already had the ECU on it right? 'cause in that case I think someone else paid to play.... and the 2nd owner just got lucky.

 

Sillbeer's ECU was purchased from Titan motorsports. They used it on their drag supra. The other ecu was already on another car from Japan. If we want to compare apples to apples, whats the cost of a used autronic vs a used motec? probably an even wider price gap than when new. I was considering buying the MoTeC M600 for the FC. But, since I'll be selling it, theres no reason to. Just for ***** and giggles, the specs on the M600 are as follows,

6 Temperature Inputs
User programmable as

Engine Temperature
Air Temp
Oil Temperature
Other sensors configurable

8 Voltage Inputs
User programmable as

Map Sensor
Mass Air Flow Sensor
Gear Position
Other sensors configurable

2 Lambda Sensor Inputs
User Programmable as

Narrow Band and
High Speed Wide Band

4 Digital Inputs
User Programmable as

Wheel Speeds
Nitrous Control
Speed Limiting
CAN for diagnostics and tuning
RS232 for telemetry

6 Fuel Injector Drivers Programmable Current Outputs
Unused outputs can be used as Auxiliary Outputs

Ignition Drivers

Up to 6 outputs for multi coil applications
Unused outputs can be used as Auxiliary Outputs

6 Auxiliary Outputs
Programmable as

Waste Gate Control
Idle Up valves
Fuel Pump Relay
Stepper Motor Control
Driver Warning Lights
Additional Devices

it also supports drive by wire, telemetry and a host of other features. Maybe overkill for a streetcar. However, you wont have to worry about it ******* up and blowing an engine due to firmware problems like erratic timing. FYI, horsepowerinabox.com sells the M600 for $2888.00. And the motec processor is TWICE as fast (32bit).

 

I have been quoted 2725.00 for the sm4 and another 165.00 for the multiplexer.
So basically right under 3000.00

 

If that's true, that's a great deal. However, keep in mind that Motec prices there ecu without the harness, which adds another 600-700.

 

I was thinking the same thing.... and would be curios to know the answer. Of course buying from HIB is not the same as buying from the local US dealer from a service perspective.

On the processor speed topic, and this is a legitimate question, what does twice the processor speed REALLY do for you? Everything boils down to the weakest link right? For instance, what really is the accuracy of the CAS with its 24 teeth and how often is it sending a signal?

Now I"m making numbers up here for simplicity, but what if the case is sending a signal every 1 sec, and the "inferior" ECU is reading the signal 4x/ sec and the motec 8x/sec. Does that really buy you anything?

Or maybe, they detect a change and the motec compensates for that change in 1/2 the time... what does that really mean? So we've added for fuel to compensate for additional boost, but since we're talking about fractions of a second, and the fuel has to travel though the manifold to the engine did that extra fraction of a sec actually do anything after all the other bottle necks in the process?

 

I had a quote from HIB for the m600 harness. It was less than $400 US. They sell at discounted motec australia prices. I mean, Im not trying to sway anyone here, Everyone will buy what they can afford. I was just stating the motec capabilities. They use Motec in F1 racing. thats good enough for me. (although it might be overkill for a street car) Whats worth doing is worth overdoing.


neil

 

For me, it's not an issue of what CAN I afford. It's do I WANT to afford it, and I'm over the days of needing something simply b/c it was more expensive (not saying anyone here is doing that). If something has benefits that I want, then I will typically pay the additional cost, whatever that might be. If it doesn't, then I'll save some cash here and spend it there.

I am curious if anyone can comment on the processor speed issue though.

 

90% of all modified rb's use power fc's
8% run a remapped stock ecu
the remaming 2 might venture out and try an aem(damn expensive compared to the perfect power fc) or an autronic.

never have i heard of a haltech being run on a gtr.

when you can buy a brand new pfc and have al your values displayed right there for you for less than a thousand dollars whats the use of paying so much more.
In the power fc's i have run on rb26's i have never had issues.

just dont unplug it as it tends to reset some stuff

 

(im gonna get burned for this) but, power fc might be good for piston engines. The reason haltechs arent widely used on GTR's is becuase there is no haltech in japan. Im sure its also somewhat scarce in europe. Thus, this is a vehicle that was never sold outside those two markets. For rx7s, power fc runs into issues with running stock sensors (which aren't that good to begin with) plus using the stock, cripsy tired engine wire harness. Also, you have to hack the power fc to run 1600cc secondary injectors.

 

Yep, that brings up a good point.
You cannot compare what goes on in Japan, especially compared to the U.S.
Japan's industries are very insulated especially from outside imports.
I'm surprised the original poster didn't mention the HKS F-CON V Pro, cause I think it's even more popular than the A'PEXi Power FC...
Japan shops are going to push Japan products, period.
There are very few Haltech vendors (see any Option magazine), but they are not pushed very hard.
Due to importation taxes, prices on these items are VERY expensive!
What we pay for a Haltech "kit" right at around US$2,000 will most likely end up costing US$4,000 to US$5,000 equivalent!
Also, DIY'ers are few and far in between in Japan; shops almost have a strangle-hold on automotive enthusiasts, especially when talking about stand-alone EMS.

There's a reason why the Japanese are willing to pay US$2,000+ for an FMIC, US$3,000+ for HKS turbos, US$1,000+ for exhaust systems...
It's just a different mindset.


-Ted

 

Yea,
thats a good point too Ted. Ive been out of Japan too long. There just as many, if not more cars running the HKS Fcon series ECU's. It is a piggy back, but it;s fully programmable. Also, the F-Conv pro gold is a universal ecu. It just needs the parameters of the engines it's running. Buy the adaptor kit for your harness, load up a (GTR) (SR20) whatever map, and rock on. Thus, its possible to run two shop cars off the same Fcon V. just swap it out and reload the correct maps. Just as easy as a standalone. The main problem is, HK$ is REAL tight with their products. Only certain authorized dealers are allowed to purchase the tuning software need for tuning their Fcons. Apex'i tried it too with the Power FC.

 

I have a Power FC Djetro on the RB26:-) I just wanted to go with one ecu on the rb26, 13B, and 20B, I have all 3. So that would be either Haltech E11, Autronic SM4, HKS Vpro, or AEM universal.
Vpro - no software
SM4 - gotta get two wiring harnesses - $$$
AEM - gotta get 2 wiring harnesses - $$$
Haltech - need a flying lead kit ( it already comes with the E11V2) and a patch harness for the RB26

That is why I asked about the RB26 Haltech...

 

going from e6k to e11, all the map values move much faster, sometimes seemingly faster than the engine. things like the voltage correction map become more important cause the ecu sees every little jiggle and spike.

car ran better with the e11, but it also went from batch to sequential injection.

 

Yep, you need a cleaner map, period.
Things you could get away with the E6-series, you cannot get away with the E8 / E11.
Due to the faster processor and the faster "refresh" rate, all kinds of glitches pop up.
I think this has something to do with the comm problem pluto mentioned, as I see the E8 drop connection every few seconds.
I do very little UL'd from the laptop, so it's not a big deal - I do most adjustments in real-time and save maps from time-to-time.


-Ted

 

I think my comm problem was related to the operating system. I have a 2.4GHz laptop that I normally use and is operating win XP. This is the same laptop that was giving me issues with comm dropping out. I recently purchased a dedicated 800MHz tuning laptop that runs Win 2000, problem went away and I can now carry one laptop instead of two since I can also operate DOS haltech with it.

 

just FYI, I got my motec m400 brand new w/ harness for $2300 USD including shipping from horsepowerinabox.com. Probably some of the best customer service I have ever had as well. Also, the version 3 software just came out on saturday and is pretty crazy.

 

That is about $1,200 OFF the US catalog price!!!! Have you pressed anyone at Motec or horsepowerinabox to determine what the warranty coverage is?

 

no, but I originally bought a m48 w/o doing enough research to realize it only had two ign. outs so I sent it back months after I had bought it and they gave me full credit towards the m400, so this guy seems to take care of his customers pretty well. Also, cool thing is when you want to do the options, you save money on the currency exchange too

 

yip..horsepowerinabox.com for the win

 

Thats cheaper than what they list it on there site.

 

Their site lists the m400 as $2,570.00 AUD, +~$400 AUD for wiring harness and $100 AUD for shipping. That comes out to roughly $3,070.00 AUD. Multiply that by current exchange rate ( 1 AUD = 0.739798 USD) = $2,271.18 USD. Today's exchange would save even more than when I bought mine.

The only thing I can't gaurantee is the service from US dealers on a AU unit. Luckily my boss uses motec all the time and knows a few guys over at Motec USA so I can get help with it.