I'm cross posting this here and in the Haltech area...

I just got my rebuild running after having some issues (I thought) with the ECU itself.

I have the map I've been running for about a year loaded up on the freshly rebuilt motor. Currently, there are 8 miles on the streetported setup.

At idle, I'm sitting right around 3.2ms and I'm getting massive amounts of greyish-whitish smoke from the exhaust. It's so bad that it will instantly bring tears to your eyes if you're behind the car.

Fuel pressure holds steady at 2.5 Bar on the stock injectors.

Would any of you running a similar setup (Haltech, 20B) be willing to either take a look at my map or let me see yours so I can verify that there is no problem with my settings?

One other thing. I verified the timing off the front rotor with a timing light and it's dead on with the timing locked. The odd thing is that it won't run smoothly at all with the trigger angle at the 'normal' 65. Mine seems happy (and timed) at a trigger angle of 25. This is with the CAS stabbed per Hitman's method.

Thanks for your help!

Reese

 

that smoke sounds like burning oil

my car would fill a 25x40foot pavilion to the point where you couldnt see when i didnt have a oil restricor in my turbo

any oil in intercooler pipes?

 

yes, that sounds like oil. What did you use to assemble it ( MMO, ATF, petroleum jelly)? What apex seals are you using? How did you install them?
Did you measure your compression...?

 

Atkins seals. Petroleum jelly to assemble and yes, there is ATF in the motor from trying to start it. I let it idle for about 20 minutes or so with no change in the smoke level.

As for installation questions, hopefully Brian will step in to answer this once he gets home and settled.

Have not measured compression but it sounds strong and even with the plugs out. (For what that's worth...)

Reese

 

greyish white smoke and lots of it could be also raw gas , the smell should tell the difference between oil and gas. but i have seen many times white greyish smoke coming from stuck injectors or punctured fpr

 

oh, it definitely smells like raw fuel! My eyes are still burning from a couple of hours ago! Fuel pressure is holding where it should be. The injectors weren't leaking last time I checked them (month or two ago.)

 

hmm... I can't remember if the 20b has the same style plug as the n/a 6 port I put together last summer, but I had the tps and the oil metering pump wires switched (car didn't have an omp)... it dumped pretty much the same amount of fuel you are describing. Once I switched them back, it went back to normal... it seemed kind of weird that mazda would have used the same connector for both, but the tps one was black and the omp was white (maybe the other way around, but they matched their mating plug's color)

 

Whoa...is this a typo?
If the Trigger (Offset) Angle = 25, then your maximum advance is only 25-degrees?


-Ted

 

Ted, this is a screen shot of how mine is set up. The only difference is that mine is using 1.3 software, not 1.62.

 

sorry. here it is

 

am i reading your charge time correctly at 4500ms?

try 4.5, and double check all your coils. you might have killed a few with that kind of charge time.

 

Yeah, with the Trigger Angle set to 25-degrees, the Haltech is set so it can only do a maximum total advance of 25-degrees.
You need to change the tooth offset (I think it's -1; it might be +1 - check this with the timing gun!) and then add 30-degrees to the tooth offset...that'll give you a maximum of 55-degrees of total advance possible.

The other thing that looks wrong is the Constant Charge value!
"4500" ms is like 4.5 seconds!
I think the "4500" should be "4.5"?


-Ted

 

yes, it's 4500. Mike had his at 3100 when he had it. I've heard people say they can run up to 6ms. I (perhaps mistakenly) figured that where he had 3100 it was just the way you had to enter 3.1 on the Haltech. (4.5 = 4500).

The coils all fire fine.

Ted, when timing lock is on I'm showing the pointer lined up exactly with the yellow reference point on the pulley but I can only get it lined up if I set it to 25. Each tooth is 15* isn't it? I might try restabbing the CAS this evening per the "factory"way and setting the tooth offset to 11. I just don't see how I could be 2 teeth off (assuming each tooth is 15*) though! I've mis-stabbed one off before but two would make a fairly noticable difference in pointer position that I (should) would have seen.

When we drove it the other night before it shut down on us, Brian had it set at 55, I believe, so it just might be something I did. He's supposed to be sending me a reference map from Matt later so I'll see how that compares to what I've been running (Mike's).

I have a related question. You're saying that setting different trigger angles affects the amount of advance timing you can run, correct? I thought it was simply a reference point to assist in setting timing. Hmmm...when I got the engine from Mike, he had his map set with a trigger angle of 10! If I'm correct in understanding what you're trying to explain to me I wonder if that had some effect on the power he was (or wasn't) making when he had it?

Anyway, I really appreciate the advice and help, guys.

Reese

 

Petroleum jelly for the assembly... baby-fresh scented, at that.

Compression honestly sounds fine unless it's uber-flooded which hasn't happened any.

Yep the software changes the spark values from ns to ms back and forth.. I could see why it'd be easy to louse up ignition components that way. Posting pictures and a couple vids up shortly.

B

 

Well, I had to set the tooth offset to 10 instead of 11 when I restabbed the CAS but I was able to get it to run with a 65 trigger angle tonight. It still runs really rich and smoke even after running for about 30 minutes.

It's idling around 1100 right now (still need to readjust the set screw on the TB) but it's kind of lumpy instead of the nice smooth idle it should be. If I start pulling fuel it starts running worse. I'm about to go ahead and pull the primaries out and have them cleaned just for peace of mind. I didn't notice any leaks when I pressurized the rail a couple of months ago with the rail in my hand but it's still a possibility, I suppose.

I bumped the firmware up to 28 so now I'm up to par with everyone else. LOL. I did notice that on the old version I had, the charge time for the coils was 4000 on the map I loaded. When I upgraded the firmware it showed 4 with no changes made by me. I'm not sure WHY they changed it but they did.

Anyway, that's where I stand right now. I'm going to check the O2 sensor tomorrow to see if it's fried. If it isn't, I'll recalibrate it and see if I can get some kind of reading on my idle AFR.

Reese

 

Ah, stupid software bugs. :P


Each Tooth Offset is 30-degrees.
24-teeth sync but running half speed = 12-teeth total per 360-degrees
360 / 12 = 30-degrees for each tooth
This is where the 30-degrees comes from.

For each jump in tooth offset, the timing should jump in 30-degree increments.
The easiest way I describe Tooth Offset and Angle Offset is...
Tooth Offset is a COARSE ignition timing adjustment.
Angle Offset is a FINE ignition timing adjsutment.
I hope that makes sense!


I haven't poked around in the newer Haltech manuals, but the older E6 / E6A / E6K have a very detailed description of this in their manuals.

You need to keep the Angle Offset *more* than your total advance.
This is just how the Haltech ECU works.
If you try and run more total advance over the Angle Offset, the Haltech will just max out at the Angle Offset.
It's hard to describe what exactly is going on, unless you understand how a Honda distributor works (this is how I picked it up) - If you try and run more advance than what the Honda distributor is adjust for, it just won't fire cause of it's design.
So, as a rule, Angle Offset should always be more than your maximum total advance.
I run up to 50-degrees of total advance, so I shoot for 60-degrees or more on the Angle Offset all the time.

I hope I didn't confuse you more!


-Ted

 

Ted, not confused...learning!

I figured out the 30* per tooth last night when I bumped the tooth offset down one notch and adjusted the angle offset by 15*. I saw that the timing gun only showed a 15* adjustment. Right about then a light clicked in my head. Heh.

Other than checking the AFR with the wideband to I think things are good enough for me to try getting the car moving so I can put some miles on it. It's still pretty hard to start at the moment.

Oh, I plugged the 1600 secondaries back in last night while the car was running. That's one more thing to be checked off the list of possible culprits since there was NO change in the way the car ran after I connected them.

Reese

 

If my math is correct, 4.5mS DOES NOT = to 4500mS, 0.045S does = 4500mS. So, im guessing you definately need to put a value of 4.5mS and not, 4500.

How much AFT did you use when you tried to start it, too much will prolly put a lot of smoke for quite a while.

 

No, you were off on your math on the last one. probably a typo...

.0045s =4.5ms not 4500ms or .045s. 4500us = 4.5ms though..... just busting your *****...