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I just read through the thread and, please correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you're using the 1980 ignition setup with the remote mounted ignition box (the photo would seem to indicate so)?
Assuming that's correct, this setup only lasted one year for a few reasons, one of which is a cross-talk issue that can lead to plugs firing when they aren't supposed to, although I don't think that's your issue in this case. Due to the early pre-catalytic mandate exhaust system, the ignition system in 1980 has some extra functions. The main one is that it can disable the trailing ignition under certain scenarios. This was done to keep enough unburnt fuel going through the thermal reactor to maintain a high enough operating temperature to work properly. I don't recall all the scenarios where this occurs, but I know that decel/coasting is one. I believe it is also disabled at start up until the choke switch shuts off, but don't quote me there. This is why the early cars run the tach off the leading coil, because sometimes the trailing coil isn't firing.
I'm also not sure what chassis you have this setup in, or how all your wiring is set up. The plug that controls this feature is a two wire connector with (if I recall correctly) a yellow and orange wire. If you have this plugged into something, unplug it and leave it unplugged (unless your car is fully or nearly stock). My next question would be, have you gotten a timing light on it? If not, I would highly suggest you do so. This will let us know for certain when (and if) the plugs are firing. It is also possible that the ignition box has been damaged over the years and no longer works properly, although perhaps this is a known good box, I'm not sure.
now we're cooking with gas! More than a few parts here are triggering the light bulb above my head. First, it WAS a fully stock setup. But with emissions and rats nest issues at 40+year old cars we went with the rat nest removal. And I Remember seeing what your talking about with the trailing being cut in certain instances. Would make sense why the trailing plugs are always soaked and leading plugs are dry. I felt I should still be getting some popping just from the leading firing but with all the deleted sensors and vac lines it seems very possible that is an issue. And also have been toying with the idea that in the last couple years of sitting not running waiting for a rebuild that either the ignition module, igniters, and or coils have been compromised. It was in a moisture rich shed i assume with the paint bubbles that popped up in the last year from what he said. I should have an fb dizzy, ignitors and harness for wires from my parted out 82.... leaning towards the fb ignition setup swap that I've seen some do for this one off 80 ignition setup. Seemed fairly straight forward. Thanks so much guys for the help and think-tank therapy.
next plan of attack. Only found so much info on this mod so any ideas or experience?
I honestly can't commentate much on that - I've never seen it done, but it makes sense. If you followed a guide for remote mounting the later igniters just be aware that the polarity of the 1980 is flipped, otherwise the spark output will be rather retarded. That assumes going from the 1980 dizzy to a J-109 though, I'm not sure about the J-105s which you're probably still using. Curious to see if it works.
I honestly can't commentate much on that - I've never seen it done, but it makes sense. If you followed a guide for remote mounting the later igniters just be aware that the polarity of the 1980 is flipped, otherwise the spark output will be rather retarded. That assumes going from the 1980 dizzy to a J-109 though, I'm not sure about the J-105s which you're probably still using. Curious to see if it works.
from what I've read this mod can be done without needing to go full dlidfis. This would just be bypassing the emission and trailing plug cut out function or am i wrong?
from what I've read this mod can be done without needing to go full dlidfis. This would just be bypassing the emission and trailing plug cut out function or am i wrong?
Yep, that's exactly the case. You're basically just doing a remote mount version of the 1981-1985 setup. You could even call it, SLIDFIS. That is, Single Leading Ignitor Dizzy Fire Ignition System . Though I probably wouldn't use that abbreviation for sake of confusion.
Yep, that's exactly the case. You're basically just doing a remote mount version of the 1981-1985 setup. You could even call it, SLIDFIS. That is, Single Leading Ignitor Dizzy Fire Ignition System . Though I probably wouldn't use that abbreviation for sake of confusion.
Nice, thanks! Still not starting but seems like it's on the verge of wanting to.
So I've tried searching for a write up on the conversion to the 81-85 ignition setup and can't find anything clear. And the fusible link doesn't have any wire coming out of #4 and #2?
So I've tried searching for a write up on the conversion to the 81-85 ignition setup and can't find anything clear. And the fusible link doesn't have any wire coming out of #4 and #2?
ignore that stupid question.... just realized that the top side are all together and source to positive battery terminal. Lol but still curious on the write up on swapping to the later ignition setup.
so after searching thru the parts I found the dizzy i was looking for and the whole front half harness! So if the 80 ignition setup still won't start fully I'm gonna have everything (I think) I need for the conversion! I also found another dizzy from an 80 (not sure where I got it from) and a 79 points dizzy. Lol so I found one of each series of dizzy style in my parts.... it's like going thru a 1st gen yard sale that everything's free sometimes. 😄
So I know they're have been a lot of dlidfis write ups but can't find anything specific to the simple 81-85 electronic ignition setup mod for m the 80 or even 79 setup. I think everything is so old now that they're not working with the attachments anymore. I'm taking the harness apart but don't want to over complicate the process and wanna make sure I'm not messing up the coil setup from the positive and negative terminals having different working setups? Just need to make sure at this point for sanity sake. 😆 thanks fellas!
If you are simply converting from a 1980 setup to an 81-85 setup (which sounds like the case) the wiring itself is very straightforward. 14 gauge wire should be adequate for all of the following runs. Each coil needs power, so run a switched 12V source to each coils positive terminal. Connect one coil to one igniter with a positive and a negative wire (the polarity of the igniters should be stamped on them). Do this for both coils/igniters. The positive could be shared, the negatives must be separate - I suggest keeping everything separate, but realistically it does not matter. The leading igniter is the one closet to the radiator. Which coil is leading and which is trailing does not matter so long as you keep track of things. Hook up the plug wires, connect the tach wire to any coil negative (usually trailing) and voila, that's it! It's a lot more simple than most folks tend to think.
Hopefully that helps. If you need a diagram I can do my best at a rough sketch, but I can't guarantee it'll be pretty.
If you are simply converting from a 1980 setup to an 81-85 setup (which sounds like the case) the wiring itself is very straightforward. 14 gauge wire should be adequate for all of the following runs. Each coil needs power, so run a switched 12V source to each coils positive terminal. Connect one coil to one igniter with a positive and a negative wire (the polarity of the igniters should be stamped on them). Do this for both coils/igniters. The positive could be shared, the negatives must be separate - I suggest keeping everything separate, but realistically it does not matter. The leading igniter is the one closet to the radiator. Which coil is leading and which is trailing does not matter so long as you keep track of things. Hook up the plug wires, connect the tach wire to any coil negative (usually trailing) and voila, that's it! It's a lot more simple than most folks tend to think.
Hopefully that helps. If you need a diagram I can do my best at a rough sketch, but I can't guarantee it'll be pretty.
Thank you so much! And it's making sense but with my cluster filled Pic I hope you can see what I'm unsure about. Can I just solder the old black/ white stripe positive wires to the 82 harness wires im using and not sure where the best switch supplied source is for the yellow/ green stripe (not tach) should go and is only for the trailing negative then since the leading positive only travels to the ignitor with no detours?
Last edited by risingsunroof82; 12-28-21 at 05:15 PM.
Thank you so much! And it's making sense but with my cluster filled Pic I hope you can see what I'm unsure about. Can I just solder the old black/ white stripe positive wires to the 82 harness wires im using and not sure where the best switch supplied source is for the yellow/ green stripe (not tach) should go and is only for the trailing negative then since the leading positive only travels to the ignitor with no detours?
ok so if I'm more clear now this should be right.... that extra yellow/ green wire was for the 82 tack wire so just run the negative trailing straight from negative coil to negative ignitor. Same for leading positive coil to leading positive ignitor. Then just solder and splice the old positive key on wires from the car to the positive on both ignitors and to both coils positive lug.
Errr uh, ummmm... Heat shrink is a thing you know.
So to be honest I can't really trace what's going on there. There are too many wires going too many places. In total there should be six wires plus the tach. Four wires go solely between the coils and the igniters, and for the sake of sanity here, don't do any splicing on those four wires. Aside from that you have two power wires, one to each coil positive, and the tach on either of the coil negatives. I can't sort out why you have coil wires splicing into four and then two of those into one or, well, okay. I think I see what you're doing now... Or actually no, good grief.
Here, I'm going to try and draw a picture, because that photo of yours is just not processing. Behold not-a-proper electrical diagram (dashed lines are wires):
It's really as simple as it looks, and do not add any grounds thinking that they are missing; they are not. Hopefully that helps.
Errr uh, ummmm... Heat shrink is a thing you know.
So to be honest I can't really trace what's going on there. There are too many wires going too many places. In total there should be six wires plus the tach. Four wires go solely between the coils and the igniters, and for the sake of sanity here, don't do any splicing on those four wires. Aside from that you have two power wires, one to each coil positive, and the tach on either of the coil negatives. I can't sort out why you have coil wires splicing into four and then two of those into one or, well, okay. I think I see what you're doing now... Or actually no, good grief.
Here, I'm going to try and draw a picture, because that photo of yours is just not processing. Behold not-a-proper electrical diagram (dashed lines are wires):
It's really as simple as it looks, and do not add any grounds thinking that they are missing; they are not. Hopefully that helps.
How's this? The mess was just a mock up in my defense. 😆 and i took the two black/ white stripe wires from the harness that went to to coils originally to the new wires from the cut up harness.
How's this? The mess was just a mock up in my defense. 😆 and i took the two black/ white stripe wires from the harness that went to to coils originally to the new wires from the cut up harness.
Haha, just giving you a hard time, although I wish I had x-ray vision for electrical tape (among other things ). Looks like you've gotten it sorted out though.
Haha, just giving you a hard time, although I wish I had x-ray vision for electrical tape (among other things ). Looks like you've gotten it sorted out though.
fair enough! I did the dizzy laying on the alternator test and turned it over with plugs hooked to the wires laying on engine housing. All 4 were sparking but the trailing seemed lighter. Could be from just laying on the engine for ground.
fair enough! I did the dizzy laying on the alternator test and turned it over with plugs hooked to the wires laying on engine housing. All 4 were sparking but the trailing seemed lighter. Could be from just laying on the engine for ground.
and just for the record I've been soldering for my work for 13+ years on top of being raised using a solder gun since a kid with the family starter and alternator business. So everything under tape that's under shrink tube is soldered using my pace st25 solder iron and was trained in and trained others in class 3 soldering and pcb repair. So no worries on the solder connections here!
I've been feeling defeated with this car now. Are there any other trouble shooting ideas? Just getting more and more less positive on working on it but it's my responsibility to get it going. Should I start going + or - 90 degrees with the dizzy even tho everything seems on point? 😠
I think I may see a problem. To confirm is the coil closest to the strut tower is for the leading circuit? That is how I see the blue cable running from the "rear" coil to the center post of the distributor cap which is the Leading post. If this part is true, then please verify that the circuit before the coil is going to the leading ignitors. The leading ignitors are the ones closest to the front (or leading) of the car, if memory serves. If all of that is true, then You may want to start back at the beginning, verifying TDC of the front rotor and marking the pulley.
Going off memory:
The way I did this is using all the methods. First, confirm that the keyway slot on the pulley/e-shaft is around the 9 o'clock postion and the flat part of the flywheel via the inspection port on the transmission is vertical. This puts you darn close your original timing marks should be present. The main pulley is 360 mm in circumference. Now, Take out the spark plugs on the rear rotor and mark the pulley when the apex seal covers the trailing hole, then again when it covers the leading hole. Measured the difference between the two marks and make a new mark half way between the two. This should also line up with the factory marks, unless the pulley was installed 90, 180, 270 degrees off. With this work complete you now have found TDC of the engine.
Next check your distributor, either pull it line it up and stab or just inspect that the rotor is pointing toward the Leading ignitor. (I may be wrong here, probably best to just stab it again.)
With TDC found and verified AND the distributor in time with the engine. wiring is all that's left, I think. As discussed earlier the leading ignitor is the one on the leading edge of the distributor towards the front of the car. Trace those wires to a coil. Which ever coil you arrive at is the Leading coil, you'll then trace the distributor cable back to the distributor cap and it needs to be plugged into the Leading post. Now do the same for trailing. Then make sure T1 is going to Trailing Rotor 1 which is the front most rotor housing and the Top spark plug hole. L1 is the same only the Lower spark plug hole. Then confirm T2 and L2 for the rear.
Set timing advance to 0 for Leading. Trailing should be 20 ATC but there is an adjustable vacuum advance that you may need to adjust once you can it running. Trailing won't matter so much right now if it's off.
If it still doesn't start, maybe flooded? if it's sat for a while it's not flooded then and maybe try pouring a little bit of engine oil down the carb to help with compression perhaps the chambers are washed clean of oil? Make sure your battery is in good charge. Also, check for spark? You can use your timing light or take a plug out and ground it.
I think I may see a problem. To confirm is the coil closest to the strut tower is for the leading circuit? That is how I see the blue cable running from the "rear" coil to the center post of the distributor cap which is the Leading post. If this part is true, then please verify that the circuit before the coil is going to the leading ignitors. The leading ignitors are the ones closest to the front (or leading) of the car, if memory serves. If all of that is true, then You may want to start back at the beginning, verifying TDC of the front rotor and marking the pulley.
Going off memory:
The way I did this is using all the methods. First, confirm that the keyway slot on the pulley/e-shaft is around the 9 o'clock postion and the flat part of the flywheel via the inspection port on the transmission is vertical. This puts you darn close your original timing marks should be present. The main pulley is 360 mm in circumference. Now, Take out the spark plugs on the rear rotor and mark the pulley when the apex seal covers the trailing hole, then again when it covers the leading hole. Measured the difference between the two marks and make a new mark half way between the two. This should also line up with the factory marks, unless the pulley was installed 90, 180, 270 degrees off. With this work complete you now have found TDC of the engine.
Next check your distributor, either pull it line it up and stab or just inspect that the rotor is pointing toward the Leading ignitor. (I may be wrong here, probably best to just stab it again.)
With TDC found and verified AND the distributor in time with the engine. wiring is all that's left, I think. As discussed earlier the leading ignitor is the one on the leading edge of the distributor towards the front of the car. Trace those wires to a coil. Which ever coil you arrive at is the Leading coil, you'll then trace the distributor cable back to the distributor cap and it needs to be plugged into the Leading post. Now do the same for trailing. Then make sure T1 is going to Trailing Rotor 1 which is the front most rotor housing and the Top spark plug hole. L1 is the same only the Lower spark plug hole. Then confirm T2 and L2 for the rear.
Set timing advance to 0 for Leading. Trailing should be 20 ATC but there is an adjustable vacuum advance that you may need to adjust once you can it running. Trailing won't matter so much right now if it's off.
If it still doesn't start, maybe flooded? if it's sat for a while it's not flooded then and maybe try pouring a little bit of engine oil down the carb to help with compression perhaps the chambers are washed clean of oil? Make sure your battery is in good charge. Also, check for spark? You can use your timing light or take a plug out and ground it.
I hope something in this has helped.
I metered out the leading spark ignitor straight to the leading coil that's goes to the leading rotor cap..... same for the trailing ignitor to trailing coil to trailing rotor cap. And all spark plug wires are going to their respective locations..... and id put some oil down the carb except it has a weber side draft which makes it a bit harder.... but may be able to do so thru the unused vac ports. Thank you!
Last edited by risingsunroof82; 01-04-22 at 04:56 PM.
dizzy location as with the leading (first) mark lined up and flat spot on flywheel straight up and down seeing from inspection plate behind intake and header. Gonna try my dizzy from my running setup next.
12-07-21, 07:44 PM
. Though I probably wouldn't use that abbreviation for sake of confusion.
). Looks like you've gotten it sorted out though.
