Whizbang

I want to get some insight for what works for those running first gens in CSP. Im starting to wrap up the suspension portion of my project.

Kentetsu

I started out with RB springs and Illumina shocks. Worked nicely.

Now I have the Respeed adjustable rear spring perches with 150 Lb springs and Bilstein shocks on the back, and Respeed coilovers with 275 Lb springs and Illuminas on front. Love it.

I actually prefer the Bilsteins on the rear, even though they aren't adjustable. They are a very "sticky" shock as far as traction goes. Illuminas are still doing the job up front, and the adjustability helps to fine tune the car when needed.

I'm very happy with the Respeed products I've used so far. First rate equipment and excellent customer service. You really can't go wrong with any of the race parts they are selling in my opinion.

perfect_circle

tires

then shocks/springs

then sway bars/ strut tower bars.

then if you still need better handling panhard/trilink.

Rogue_Wulff

I have been running old saggy ST springs with KYB GR-2 shocks/struts. On smooth courses, they weren't too bad. On bumpy courses, it was a bumpstopfest, and a night mare to keep headed the right direction.
I just recieved GC coilover with Eibach Race Springs, 350F/200R. I will be keeping the KYB's for now, so we'll see how much improvement it makes. Parts just got here, and will be installed in a few days.

Kentetsu

RW; you might want to reconsider using the KYB shocks, or you might end up pulling everything apart again to make replacements very soon after you install those springs. I doubt that the shocks will stand up to those spring rates very long. Just a thought.

Rogue_Wulff

My back can't stand up to the mega bums\pstopfest that the car has on almost any road. My budget won't stand any additional strain this month. Therefore, the KYB's are gonna hafta work, at least for a while. When my budget allows, I'll be ordering a full set of Illumina's from Billy.
I was planning to buy coilovers and springs from Billy, but Doc had a KILLER deal on the GC stuff ($200 for already modded struts, coilover hardware and all 4 ERS), so I jumped on it within minutes of him posting it.
The spring rates may not 100% optimal, but bound to be a far cry better than 15-20 year old saggy ST springs, with ~1" clearence from the bumpstops. Ironically, I cut 1.25" off the rear bumpstops, and ended up with just barely over 1.5" of travel, without me in the car.......
Right now, my 205/50-15's just touch the fender lips in the rear, as the bumpstops compress, and that's after I rolled the lips to the fullest extent possible.

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Spend $75 and buy Jim Susko first gen setup manual (Google Jim Susko and G-force). Find out how a two time National Champ (and suspension engineer) fixes the problems with the first gen and makes them handle well.

To be really competitive in CSP you are going to have to step up to perfectly setup suspension, probably not a street setup.

Jaime Enriquez

Yo Kenetsu....are the rear Bilsteins widely available? Where and price estimate please!
Thanks
Jaime

Rogue_Wulff

I'd love to get the G-Force tri link and panhard rod. But my budget is limited.
Heck, I have less than $1500 total invested in the car, over the last 3+ years, including purchase price.
I also have a season championship IN CSP (local region) for last year, and 4 1st place finishes (out of 4 events) for this year. I *think* I'm doing ok, for a newb......

eprx799

iTrader: (8)

It depends on how competitive you want to be. Of the local csp drivers a few of them are nationally competitive drivers one drive a csp Miata the other drive a CRX.
I also second buying the book from GForce Engineering. its worth the money you could easily throw way on parts.
the Illuminas are ok for the money but for a litttle more you could pic up some Konis.
If you want to go ape sh*t Advance Design sold by Ground Control or Doulble ape sh*t Motons. Ground control sells a nice seet of coilovers and camberplates.
Gforce eng. makes a nice set of struts and the trilink and panhard rod for the rear.
pm me if you want to see the set up on my sa.

Kentetsu

I have the trilink/panhard setup sitting on a shelf in my garage. I haven't installed it yet because, quite frankly, I'm very happy with the car as it is. The amount of potential improvement just doesn't justify the effort of installation at this time. I really can't imagine the handling being improved much over my current setup, and I'm doing quite well in CSP even though I'm using Sumitomo street tires against others who are on race rubber.

I'm just so happy with my car right now, I don't feel the need for further improvement at this point.


Jaime: I have no idea of where to buy the Bilstein shocks, or even what part number they are. I purchased them used from a user on this forum. They are a lot shorter than the stock shocks, so I don't think you'd want to use them on a car that has not been lowered...

eprx799

iTrader: (8)

Well if you are happy with the performance of your car than thats great, but if you want to build your car to the rule book you would be alot faster. if your running on street tires not even the sts tire to have than you just don't know how fast your car really could be.

perfect_circle

his car is fast, and he is faster, beating up on cars out of our class. porsches and lotus'

sounds to me like you are just trying to justify to yourself spending all of that money on your car.

Rogue_Wulff

My car would be a lot faster, if I could fix that loose nut behind the wheel.......

I'm also running street tires. Kumho Ecsta SPT 205/50-15. That was the best tire my budget could afford at the time.
The STS tire to have isn't offered in 13" at all, and barely any 15" sizes. Of course, the tire to have changes nearly every year, so keeping up with which one is the tire for that year, isn't exactly easy.
I'm hoping that the GC coilovers will allow me to eventually step up to a 225/45-15, although there are very few choices in that size. The A6 is offered, but then I'd need another set of wheels. That would nearly double my total investment in the car.

Zyrano

the trickest shocks are probably the g force advance design shocks. In terms of CSP, if you want to be competitive nationally, you'd need a LOT of development work or get a miata... The difficulty is not being able to run the turn in spacers, so you don't have the optimum front suspension geometry even if you have the panhard and trilink.

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

I agree with eprx799, just because you are beating lotus and porsches in your local auto-x doesn't mean you are fast. You don't know how fast you are until you are racing with nationally competitive level cars and drivers. There is no way you are running as fast as the national level driver when you are running 205 Sumitomos and others running 275 Hooiser A6.

Whizbang

For me, auto cross isn't my primary goal. The hill climbs are. They use the same classes (combined with the safety of time trails) as SCCA but the course has very fast and wide turns. I'm working at the Giants Despair climb in early July and ill get some pictures.

"turn in" is not going to be an issue for me. Being able to maintain a higher speed through a wider turn is.



Also, the GSL-SE donor car i have seems to have Eibach springs and adjustable Illumias on it. So those might have to do for now.

Rogue_Wulff

Heck, I don't have the budget, nor the talent, to be Nationally competitive. Since our region has brought home a few trophies from Nats, I am working with several people, at trying to improve on the talent part.
I am also slowly working on the improving the car, as my budget will allow. I'm not too concerned about the coilover and race springs being too stiff for the KYB's. I believe in the adage of only making 1 change at a time. That way, you can see what each change does, good or bad.

perfect_circle

that makes alot of sense, i see it your way.

and as far as being as fast as national competitors, you're right, im sure were not, but we are having tons of fun and thats what we strive for. we arent looking to be the fastest person in the country, we would just like to reach a level where we are satisfied with how the car performs, and work on the driver some more, and then go have a martini afterwards. lol

Kentetsu

I have run a few races with the big dogs, and yes they spank me thoroughly. But I do occasionally sneak away with the prize, much to my surprise.

I know it's not the proper decision for someone who's only goal is to win, but I wanted to see how far I could go on the cheap street rubber. My car is almost complete, and then the race tires will be the only thing left for me to do, so then I'll probably move up to some sticky stuff. Maybe next spring.

But in the mean time, Perfect_circle and I are having fun tearing them up on our Sumitomos and then driving the car home afterwards while half the others start loading up trailers. I'm sure that once either of us straps on the race rubber, we'll be very dominating despite the presence of the Miatas...

And I agree with Rogue Wullf too. The biggest improvement I can make is with myself and my driving technique. The car is certainly not what holds me back at this point. lol.

Rogue_Wulff

LOL, If I had to load a trailer with my own stuff, I'd be the last one to leave. As the co-chair for the SOLO program, I already have so much to do in the mornings, the tech guys always hunt my car down and tech it where it is, knowing I'll be removing the loose articles prior to running.
In the afternoon, I am loading the region's equipment trailer till well after most others have left. Of course, the majority of our region's race tire users just install the tires/wheels at home, and drive to/from the event on them. A few have even been known to wait a week or 2 before switching back to their normal tires.
At least DOT comp tires are legal for street use......

Whizbang

i have no choice but to trailer. The climbs are a two day event and 5 hours from home. Plus there is a likelihood of hitting a tree or some other solid object. Hence the required roll cages, fire suits, etc

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

thats a good way to do it! once you put the slicks on, everything changes, you'll need the suspension parts, trailer etc etc

eprx799

iTrader: (8)

My primary reseason is to have fun or I wouldn't do it.
what it all comes down is that we are there for 5-10 min. of driving and 6-8 hrs. of bsi.ing .
I went to a corvette club event about 3 yrs ago with a stock class 1999 miata which was totaly stock except for the kumho r comp tires and a little bit of camber dialed into the suspension and beat everyone of the cars except a heavily modified vet. that was a definitly a good time. so the driver is definitly a major part of the puzzle theres no doubt about it.

but the main question was what is the best damper/ suspension for rx7, not how much they cost.

Kentetsu

lol, Helen Keller could win if she was driving a Miata!