thricerx7

Okay so it seems that once I got my emissions stuff taken out and the racingbeat exhaust put in i have been experiencing trouble with start up. I drive an 82 GSL with a 12a. When I crank it over it will turn over a couple times, let out some backfires, and then usually start, which is when i have to floor it until i can tell that all the raw fuel in the carb is burned out of the exhaust. it sounds like the exhaust sound is being blocked by something, until i rev it high and burn all of it out. then i put it on choke and it's fine. i left for san diego this weekend, and left my car sitting all weekend. i come to start her up and the same thing happens where it wont turn over, and it has loud backfiring coming from it. usually if i try to start it, it will go after a while, but not today. i'm guessing it's a flooding problem, but i have also been reading up, and maybe my spark isn't lighting the fuel, so maybe it's an ignitor... i have direct fire, so it should be a smoother start up and all, but it's not happening. i searched, but i haven't been too successful. luckily i have some extra ignitors that i brought with me, so i'll test them out i suppose.

ps. i haven't been on here for a while, because i'm busy with school, and dont have my internet hooked up, so anyone who is trying to get ahold of me, sorry, i don't have time and plus the only way to get ahold of me is through my cell, and i dont want to waste minutes being on such a tight budget.... and now with the 7 not starting, it doesn't help much either.... thanks in advance for any help.

LongDuck

That kind of startup routine is indicative of an overly rich mixture. You're probably flooding it at some point during the startup, or it could be that your fuel pump is supplying too much pressure to the carb bowls, causing them to overflow which leads right down the throats.

A quick remedy would be to buy a Purolator fuel pressure regulator 0-10psi that has a dial adjustment on it to set whatever pressure you need at the bowls. This will help to control fuel flow in the pre-start condition, but if your needle valves and seats are worn or sticking, you're going to be overflowing the bowls with fuel, regardless of pressure regulation. Only fix for that is a carb rebuild.

The fuel pumps on carb'd cars have an internal wall that helps to limit flow. If this wall collapses, it will cause a rapid increase in fuel pressure which will overpower your needle valves and seats. RX7Carl or the other carb guru's should chime in now - I'm an EFI guy.

Give that a shot and see what happens. The only other (no cost) suggestion is to keep your foot off the gas during cranking, and don't let the fuel pump run for long before you start cranking it.

nevarmore

I would tune the carb before you go throwing parts at the problem. If its running rich right after you start it then it could be as simple as leaning the idle mix out a tad. When you strip the emissions stuff you are also removing a few things that help the car be more civilized.

What does it do if you start it using starter fluid instead of its own juice?

Long Duck: Not to question your advice, but I'm curious. If it was high fuel pressure or excessive fuel wouldn't also cause it to backfire or do something odd at idle??? I know it would probably cause a slight power loss above idle and a fuel effeciency problem.

LongDuck

Well, when you get too much fuel in there on startup, the exhaust system isn't hot enough yet to ignite the mixture, and I didn't see anything specific to his exhaust system that may be a factor.

It may be a tuning issue that simply needs to be leaned out, but my 80LS used to do this because the needle valves and seats would stick open and not shut off completely. After taking off the airbox, you could look down the carb throats and see raw fuel running down the intake plenums - not good. A FPR helped to keep pressures down enough that the bowls wouldn't overfill, but lead to high RPM/high speed fuel starvation when running at top speed for more than 10-15 seconds. I had the carb rebuilt and it worked fine after that for another 20k miles.

My suggestion to try the FPR is that it's about a $10 part, and could also help him if the fuel pump has a collapsed regulator - without a gauge to check FP, it's a crap shoot, but a cheap one. Rebuilt kits are only about $30 at PEP Boys, IIRC, and that would be my next suggestion. HTH,

thricerx7

thanks for your help guys. i'm not sure if the car was running too rich, but i knew immediately it had flooded because i took out the plugs, and they were covered in gasoline. later that day i was informed that my Leading2 plug was in Leading1 and Leading1 in Leading2 so that doesn't help either. dumb mistake. oh well. Then my car wouldnt turn over some more, so i decided to see if it was just the battery. I proceded to put my friend's battery from his prelude into my car, and she fired right up with those plugs and that battery. then he put my battery into his car, and it wouldn't turn over. i took the battery to my local autozone, and had them charge it overnight. when i recieved the battery i had them test it one more time, to make sure i wasn't recieving faulty material. anyway, we took it home, and voila! she starts.

ps: longduck, i have to tap the gas while starting or it wont fully start.... it's always been like this so i dont mind.

thanks to everyone who helped!
i wish i could show u guys a pic of my car cuz im about to put the headlight scoop on, and i already have my australian front turn indicators installed, so it looks hot!

LongDuck

Glad you got it running - sometimes it's something easy.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

you have a DLIDFS. it doesnt matter which leading wire goes to which. anyways, call me.

ackershaw

Ok, I have done some searching but I dunno what to do.
Car: 1985 RX7 12A
- DLIDFIS
- stock fuel pump works / aftermarket fuel pump works (box says it it set to OEM settings)
- The car will start with starter fluid or a little gas dripped in the carb, but after a minute, gas startes overflowing the litte triangle part of the carb and the overflow drips into the barrels and then the engine dies, then I have to de-flood the engine again.

I need some help! Please! I have checked several things:
- Engine will start and fire
- Fuel pump works
- Fuel lines are clear
- Fuel is being delivered to the carb

With the either pump plugged in the engine just floods due to the gas overflowing the triangle part of the carb.

I need so help and or ideas please.

ackershaw

SparkienSuggah

it took me ten seconds to figure out what the triangle is..
thats the bowl vent hole, so at least your bowl vent solenoid seems to be working.... at a guess your needle valves no longer stop the fuel flow, or your return line is plugged like a ************.
whole the bowl vent floods, do the jets pee gas? this should also be happening.

did you install the "restrictor" backwards? i dont know what will happen, but it may cause this (in which case its a dumb restrictor... get an fpr.)

Kentetsu

Try tapping on the top of the carb with the plastic handle of a large screwdriver. This will sometimes get the needle valves working again. There is also the possibility that your new pump is not really set to oem spec, and is supplying too much pressure for the carb to handle.

ackershaw

Well, I have both the factory pump and aftermarket pump, both do the same thing, that vent hole triangle thing spills over. How can I check the return line? The restrictor where is it? Because I never touched (I believe) to install it backwards. I have no idea if those things are peeing gas, there is so much gas overflowing the vent hole that we can't really tell it is getting gas through the pee holes. This is my first time dealing with a carb, now yall are making me feel stupid as hell. I am a fast learner so if someone can explain to me or tell me of a site in which has more information on carbs that would be awesome.

Kentetsu

The restrictor mentioned above is located in the return line. You will see it as a metal connector where the hose is split and rejoined. It can cause issues if installed backwards. Is you vent solenoid hooked up? This would be a single wire that plugs in just above the OMP lines (where they connect to the carb).

ackershaw

Ok, well I will check those items out. But, here is one thing that I checked through the internet, is that if the Charcol Canister was flooded it can cause the fuel system to not run correctly. When I did the DLIDFIS ignition upgrade, I forgot the condensor wire, and when started the engine up with starter fluid, and thats when one of the canister hose popped off bubbling some fluid of some sort. And the charcol canister was soaked I think. Does someone have the break down of the carb or close pictures of an 12A carb set up so I can visually see what may look wrong?

Kentetsu

Huh. Sounds like your tank is pressurizing and forcing the fuel through the charcoal can and into the carb. Right?

I know the answer to this one, but dammit I've been up for 34 hours straight now and can't see the trees for the forest. Someone will probably be along with the answer before I get up tonight, but if not I'll most likely have it for you then. Good luck man!

ackershaw

Well, yes when the condensor was NOT plugged in, it sent crap through the charcoal can, and not to the carburetor. I read somewhere that now because that stuff went to the charcoal can, the fuel system may not pressurize right.
But, now it is NOT doing that any more I believe. Fuel is getting to the carburetor now. But the fuel is overflowing the triangle thing of the carburetor (vent hole is what one person called it). Now the engine is flooding anytime I try to start it, and it floods with both the factory pump and the aftermarket pump. I have not checked the return lines yet, I will do that asap, but I am still trying to get as many opinions as possible and checking every possibility. I can take pictures if you want me to show you what I am talking about.

ackershaw

Here is what I am talking about so I can visually show you. and the situations.
Original picture:

First: After ignition upgrade, I didn't have the Tach or condensor (near the distributor) plugged in. Gas came out of the Chacoal can.

First situation: I believe solved because fuel actually being delivered

Second: Plugged the Tach and condensor in to my ignition system and now fuel is getting to Carb, BUT engine will start but NOT run. It floodes due to the fuel pouring over the triangle piece of Carb.

Kentetsu

Did you make sure that your fuel bowl vent solenoid is hooked up and working?

ackershaw

No haven't checked that. I have to find a diagram where all this stuff is because I am not the one who removed the rat's nest, and its my first time dealing with the car.

Kentetsu

The solenoid I'm referring to is located on the driver's side of the carb. I believe that it is the only electrical connection on that side of the carb, just a single wire with a bullet connector. It's located just above where the OMP lines hook on to the carb.