dj55b

iTrader: (2)

That's called barely sleeping lol. I would really rather do or learn something than sleeping or watching tv or anything along those lines. And thanks to my smartphone now I can accomplish more that I don't have to sit down at a computer and type all this stuff.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

Barely sleeping my ***, you just sleep really late and do everything when everyone else is sleeping. The only thing you save time on is not sitting in traffic like the rest of us suckers.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Sorry for keeping people waiting on this ... we're just having some connection problems with the dyno. I also had to return the shock that I was borrowing (The stock illumina) to the owner as it took too long to get this going

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Well the shock dyno has been fixed now, so I should have some data soon now.

gawdodirt

I thought compression was for controlling sprung mass and rebound for unsprung and spring.

GD

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

Compression refers to the characteristics of the shock as it compresses, rebound refers to the characteristics as it extends. A double adjustable damper will allow you to tweak both of those, whereas single adjustable dampers like the Illumina's only allow you to adjust one. I think it's compression.

gawdodirt

Compression valving. Yes, to compress is to squeeze together.

I was commenting on what attribute handles which weight or action. Compression valving controls the mass of the vehicle; and rebound or jounce valving controls the unsprung and spring. I checked with several industry sources and that is what they all confirmed. Just want to make sure that technical information is clear.

I have read the histogram of many shock curves. Mostly on off road shocks.

GD

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

I'm working the dyno as I'm typing this, both the rears of the illiminas have been tested now along with the blues of the illumina. Once I finish testing the fronts I'll start posting up the data.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

sweet!

Starfox07

Go tokiko blues!!

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Alright, its taken a while but we finally saw the light Here are the results:

This first graph is from the MR2 style shock. I did both sides so this is the first one. One thing to note here is how radical the 5th setting is compared to the rest. The bottom side of the graph is the rebound and the top is the compression btw. I can display these things in various methods if needed.



So this is the second front shock. The front shocks are actually pretty good in comparison to each other. The only real difference appears in the 3 and 4 positions of the shocks as will be displayed later on.



This is a front tokico blue shock. I was shocked to see that the compression side is about twice as stiff as the illuminas. Was not expecting that at all. Unless i'm reading things wrong.



Moving on we have the rears of the illumina's. These I'm not really fond of the difference at all between both the rear illumina's. The peaks are about the same but everything in between is totally different. Also surprised that the compression side is stiffer than the front. Maybe some one can shed some light on this stuff. I'm no pro at this by any means, I just thought it would be an interesting experiment.



So here's the second rear shock. Note how much more bubbly the graph looks. The one that is a bit bubbly too, feel by hand a bit different too.



And lastly for this post the blues from the rear. I bet that the wiggly end is due to it being a used shock.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Next up we have side by side comparison of each setting from the shocks. In this post I'll be displaying the fronts laid over each other. So shock 1 on position 1 over shock 2 on position 1, shock one on position 2 over shock 2 on position 2 .... you get the idea.

So like I said the fronts are actually pretty good as far as being relatively close to each other in properties except for setting 3 and 4. So here is the shocks on position number 1 (Softest):



Then 2.



This is where it starts to not go well together. This is on position 3



Now 4 with still a bit of a difference



At 5 it pulls its act together again and goes to being about the same.



Now this one is the one shock being set on a 3 and the other at 4 (I have my shock labeled properly to know which one is which now) but as you can tell they can match up like that, so it just means I have 4 adjustments rather than 5 really on the front shocks.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Next up we have the rears comparison. So just like above every position is over laid from one shock to the other. Now one thing to also note is that the rear with every adjustment it changes the compression and rebound properties of the shock, the fronts only affected the rebound.

So first up position one. The rebound is about the same, but the compression is really far different.



Second position, the same results as the first are shown.



Position 3 seems to start to get better with each other.



Position 4 is the one that I'm considering running at, as to me appears to be the best match up atleast.



And finally position 5. I'm really not sure what to make out of this one.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

In this last post i tried to find the 2 setting that I though were closest to the blues and overlaid them.

The first one is of the front, and the second one is of the rear.

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

K I promise this is the last thing for now. I have attached a zip file that contains excel files of all the runs. The Excel files also show things like seal drag and gas force in the shock.

Let the thoughts and info pour in .

Also as mentioned previously if anybody has any different shocks (heck even stock ones that are in good condition maybe) so that we can see the differences that would be great. Even a new set of Blues would be nice for testing as oppose to the 3 year old or so ones.

Kentetsu

Nice work Sam!

gawdodirt

Thanks for taking the timeand posting the data!

I have had some experience with reviewing some shock data. We used to do this on an LMS unit. We maintained the force as a constant to compare them in our case You also have to go up in force if they're a deflected disc type valving to unseat all the control valving to the point of cavitation.
The lumpy curve might be gas or air not in solution yet. Temp is also a criteria they might take into consideration. I had some KYB's that were solid until they warmed up.

Thanks again and this was really coool of you to do.

Thanks!

GD

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

No problem

From reading around, I heard that there isn't much need to run them much faster as you're barely in that range (~7 inches per second if thats what you're thinking of?)

Gas temps were recorded and I have run them for about a minute in the live view option without any real increase in temps. The one shock, I think it was one of the rears, I did actually have to run in live view first and then test it because it show something really weird without running it first.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

really interesting data! on several levels.

way back when i had heard that the 1086's were underdamped for the 350/175 pro7 spring rates, but plugging the numbers into the calculator http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets16.html reveals my car, on paper, should like setting #3 all around.

the variations; having the shocks be different is ok, for two reasons. the first being that the corner weights of the car vary. the front left is always heavy, so you can put the stiffer of the pair of shocks on the front left and come out close to even.

second you have to be a really good driver to tell one shock is 2% different than the other.

so neat, thanks much sam!

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Sam! Now all I need to do is decipher what I am looking at!

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Glad I could help at least one forum member out .

Do you think you could take a screen shot of all your data that you inputed on that calculator? Did you actually measure all those or did you guess some?

I know a few percent different will be hard for me to tell, but what do you make out of the shocks when one is more bubbly then the other in the compression though? So looking at all those shocks which ones do you thinks I should toss where?

bwaits

iTrader: (12)

Absolutely great info Sam. I will post back once I have had a chance to review it.

-billy

GSLSE-YA

It looks like the rears have a higher compression on high setting compared to the front. Also the rebound on the front is much higher than the rears. This scenario would promote rear traction. Having higher compression rears makes the rear tires load up quicker, and having high rebound rates on the front will effectively slow the spring and wheel from falling to the ground, which takes the weight off that wheel quicker when excelerating out of a corner.

The same is true for braking and turn entry. The rears have less rebound which keeps the rears in contact with the road for longer, and because the fronts have lower compression, it takes longer for the weight to get transfered to them. To put it simply, there will be less oversteer upon turn entry and you'll get better rear traction when exiting. Too much can cause the front end to push when excelerating out of a corner though.

Considering the FB's handling trates, the companies setup these shocks up properly. IMO

Don't forget, shocks handle changes is suspension movement, braking, initial turn in, acceleration on turn out, uneven pavement. On a steady corner with no bumps, handling becomes more about spring rate. Shocks are more about transitions. I'm sure most of you know this stuff, just making an observation about the graphs. Good information!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i just hit see example car and start changing things to FB spec. i did measure some stuff on the car, but yesterday its just an educated guess.

i havent weighed my car, or picked a ride height either. i have measured some of the stuff like the swaybar, but it doesnt use that in that calculator for the shock numbers.

bubbles you will feel...

GSLSE-YA

My current Koni double adjustables in my race car (fronts shocks) have a max compression of around 375lbs and almost 480lbs in rebound. I run 650-700lb spring rates in the front though.