RENESIS in my GSL-SE
 

Project Announcement

I am starting my RENESIS swap project next week. If there is enough interest, I will document the process and post information. Because the documentation is a project in itself, I don't want t do it just for me.

DONOR: 1984 GSL-SE gutted, perfect body. Purchased in 1992 as a daily driver, built a mild 13B 6PI engine with a Dellorto, RB headers and exhaust. VERY nice. Every nut, bolt, and bracket was sandblasted and painted. 800 miles later.... a piece of gasket I accidentally left in the engine (I guess) clogged the oil pump at an Auto-x. Engine melted and I've been storing the car in my warehouse ever since.

PROJECT intensions:
Swap a generally stock RENESIS into the GSL-SE Chassis. Make the car street legal. Make the car as light weight as possible. NO concerns for creature comfort.

The chassis prep will start on 01/13/04 at Valkerie Racing. They primarily build and support high-end Porche GT level race cars. They are very excited about the project. They will accomplish the following:

1. Roll Cage
2. Removing ANY uneccesary items.
3. Brembo brakes with large rotors all around
4. Suspension TBD (SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!)
5. Rear window will be lexan
6. Fiber glass front bumper (SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!)
7. Mounting the motor, bracket fab etc.
8. Fuel Cell maybe - if it doesn't interfere with being legal.

Items planned:
Canzoomer Stage 2 ECU mods
HT cat
Borla RX-8 cat back dual exhaust modified for the 7
Volk TE37's 17" width TBD
I will custom machine 5-bolt hubs to allow the wheels to fit.
Painted RX-8 Lightning Yellow to match my RX-8
Racing seats
280+ HP emissions legal sub-2200 lbs

GOAL:

To have THE fastest street legal NA RX-7 ever. This is purely hobby, I am not a race shop. I would appreciate ANY constructive suggestions the community may have.

I really need help with a cool front bumper/air dam like Bern has SEE the Pic of Bern's car.

god good.. how much did the motor cost you?

cool project btw

mariah mode one

btw street legal... wouldnt you get more than 280 out of a renesis, i thought 300 was more like it

or is it emissions legal too

oh.. and for this:

4. Suspension TBD (SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!)

i suggest coil-overs. tokico 5 way adjustable shocks, and a nice pring rate. maybe 350/175

camberplates

bushing kit.

I think documenting your project is a great idea. As more of these motors become available and the price drops, people will look at your site for info on a swap. I am very interested in reading more about your swap.
Good luck, your car is going to be awesome.

Where can I get it?

Maybe, but not if I want to pass a sniffer test.

Is Ground Control the best place?

I'd like to know how much you got the motor for and the tranny your gonna use with it..

I am still negotiating, looks like it will be $6k+ with shipping. I will initally mate to the stock 5sp tranny. If I dont like it, I may do the RX8 6MT.

I already killed the power steering for a manual box as well.

i have ground control, works great for me.. height and damper adjustable(with tokico or koni adjustables)

i have 350/150 i would like to go to 175 in the rear tho.

Look at the mariah website here:
http://www.mariahmotorsports.com/

Theve got lots of cool stuff there too

Thanks Gatorgunner

Does anyone think it would be better to make it more of a sleeper? Stock look?

a 6speed renisis widebody firstgen would be a track MONSTER

yup. That's the plan.

Hey that's awesome!

I wanted to do that since I learned about the RENESIS but it costs a helluva lot of money to get one. There's a bunch of computer tuning involved in making all the ports work.... I don't really know much else because there's not much information on the web. Anyways, best of luck and welcome to the forum.


Nice goal, but what's that mean? 1/4 mile? Top speed? 0-60? Just wondering...

Also, i suppose street-legal means 49 state legal huh? Because CA street-legality is a PITA! :(

Also, may I recommend fender flares? They look bitchin and not fat like the widebody kits.:D

I dug out a piece of gasket from an oil feed for the front stationary bearing yesterday. The oil pump from this engine had a broken rotor.

Nice project.

It won't be a dragster, not too worried about 1/4mi time. Too hard on the tranny.

I expect it to be a sports car, so I guess road race courses is where I intend to shake this car down. On the street it will most likely be punches from 30 to 60mph to some triple digit number.

Pics? I agree, the wide body kits don't do it for me. The Mariah front end looks nice though.

definately document everything about it

Yea, Im sure if you are serious about documenting it. It can be made a sticky, just like the TII swap one.

Here the linky]
Unfortunately, their site is down for some reason. It should be under Products > Exterior but the page doesn't load.

Fortunately, I saved the pic to my HD! :D So here it is...

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=2532818

Another pic of flares here.

http://www.gunnautotech.com/projects...mages/gunn.jpg

That was my high school RX-7 autocross car. The pic is kinda bad and old (1999), but that's the best on on the website.
The flares are actually 240Z flares my auto teacher riveted on.

Anyways, hope the pics help.

Here is the starting point.....
http://www.modernmovie.com/images/GS...side SMALL.jpg

The MODA 15x7 wheels are for sale.

Very nice and clean looking car. Im looking forward to seeing your project progress as im sure most everyone else is too!

I'm drooling at the thought of the Renesis in the first gen. In fact, that was the first thing that occured to me when I saw the RX-8's debut at the Detroit show a few years back. Please photograph and document everything- even the unveiling of the new engine from its crate. I plan on living the experience vicariously through you until I get enough cash together to do it to one of my '83's.

You, or your chosen speed shop, is going to have a heck of a time trying to get the electrical systems up and running as they are on the RX8. Primarily the use of a 'fly-by-wire' throttle body control which uses an electrical solenoid to operate the throttle body, not to mention the requirements for a closed-loop fuel injection system that has dead shunts to each injector and also requires a variable rate (ECU controlled) fuel pump to provide proper pressure as the engine RPM changes.

There sounds to be an extensive amount of 'cannibalizing' an RX8 to get these parts unless you have an electrical engineer on staff who can tackle these issues.

With the emissions systems involved to get the RX8 to where it is, I would also think that you're going to have a hard time getting all the required systems to fit in the FB engine bay - definitely some custom fabrication and cutting will be required.

Overall, an excellent project that should yield some fantastic performance results. Good luck with it,

i was thinking along the same lines, but i think fitting it wont be that bad compared to fitting a fd 13b, do u plan to port it also? im sure u could get a streetport to pass the sniffer. Also, when u get done, u gotta enter the SCC car contest! lol

Good luck and keep us posted

<l><l>

I am using all the stock RX-8 harness and ECU. No real brain surgury there. I do have A LOT of electronics experience to deal with the minor things like tach pulses, ABS, TCS, etc. I also have an RX-8 that I have been studying quite diligently. The ECU is in the engine compartment of an 8. VERY convienient for a swap! I will use the drive by wire pedal assy. from the 8. I don't want to reinvent that. To maintain legal emissions, I HAVE to keep the majority of it stock - only a high temp aftermarket cat.

As far as the mechanical - I REALLY have that covered. Between my shop and Valkerie (next door to me). My company has an in house CNC machine shop. Handy for this project for sure. I intend to use the stock mount points and fabricate brackets out of 304 SS.

I will cut large portions of non-structural chassis out and replace with light gauge aluminum sheets or fiberglass. I want this car to be LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT. The roll cage should provide enough structure to remove LOTS of sheet metal.

The budget is $25k+. There are three paid professionals and myself working on it. I am having wrist surgury on 01/14, so I will be physically useless for most of the project. I will guide the guys (Porche builders) on the rotary specific stuff and they will guide me on chassis issues.

I will take a short series of pics when I deliver the car to Valkerie. For reference I will include some RENESIS pics.
I expect it will be fast AND look good.

The RENESIS breathes VERY well compared to ANY other rotary design. Other than polishing and port matching - I would not expect big gains. I have not heard of anyone doing port work on the RENESIS yet. Getting it in and working is enough of a challenge for now. when I chunk the motor down the road I might do that.

As it stands - getting 280+ hp will not be difficult. I am hoping for well under 2200lbs (800lbs lighter than the RX-8).

I could only hope for a mention in SCC.

Snake eyes

I just noticed you are in my area. If you want stop by a check progress in person, you are welcome to do that.

sweet, what side ya on? u gotta come tell us at the houston club meets

<l><l>

edit: oh and btw, do u still have the -se fuel pump perchance? i need it for my project as well lol

snake eyes

check your PM's

1st RX-8, way to make an entrance to the Forum! I agree with Longduck all the way. Although you guys seem very knowledgeable, please remember that the RX-8 engine is a very new and complicated machine to run.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather just go with a Turbo system like AJC13B's old car?

Just throwing this out, but if I remember correctly the tranny in the RX-8 is the same as in the miata. This should not pose a problem if you need to save a little money for tranny.

I see $$$ being the only problem in making this work. The motor is great, the tranny is great. the car already handles well. All you've got to do is peice it together. Good luck.

1stRX8, if you are really serious about suspension for your car, don't go to Ground Control. Instead look up Jim Susko at G-Force Engineering. He comes VERY highly recommended by the serious racers on the board and he's a really nice guy to boot.

I would also suggest that you swap out transmissions for the TII 5-speed, leaving the SE tranny in could be asking for trouble.

I really want an NA engine. I want this car to be very reliable in addition to powerful.

Copy that. Can he make a STREET car? It is not really a race car, so the suspension can only go so far.

I think you are correct. I might opt for the RX-8 tranny. 6sp. I know the TII's are ok AND there is current info on the install.

I would be a fool if I thought I will get through this without a few bumps in the rug. Electronics will Certainly be the biggest single hurdle. Mazda has not yet made the technical manual available to the general public. My local dealer said it will not be long though. If I really get stuck. I will throw a party for all the RX-x club and offer prize money to the one who figures it out. That will move things along!

It's nice to see interest in this project with a car that just turned 20!

I can say with no hyperbole that Mr. Susko knows probably everything there is to know about the suspensions of our cars. The best part is that he will talk to you personally about your needs and recommend what he thinks is the proper setup. Ground Control, on the other hand, doesn't even have a fucking clue what's on their own website. I came away from dealing with them with a bad taste in my mouth.

I wouldn't worry too much about the emmisions system you don't have to meet the 2004 standards only the year of the car which is 1984 in this case(it may even pass w/o a cat converter due to better control of fuel and timng)

I woulden't worry about the -se trans, it should do the job. You say you aren't going to drag race it and the renesis doesn't make a lot of torque. Torque and shock is the killer for transmissions, not hp.

Cool project, can't wait for the pic's :)

I haven't actually broke my 12a tranny yet with the s4 turbo and 8psi on the 12a streetport, so I bet a "Renesis" should handle it with its low non-turbo torque.

I think it has more to do with tires and traction. If it hooked up when it should and stay hooked up, I know tranny and rearend components would fail more quickly. Only thing I've broke was the front main bearing on the tranny, and its cheaper to get another used tranny then buy the $100+ bearing for it!

I think it will be hard to find a bad 13b RX-8 engine(I hate calling it "renesis") because the N/a engines from the S4 and S5's were pretty damn reliable, so that means these new '04 rotaries should be even more durable for long life, and good in a FB. And better yet, they can take 9000rpm!! So the performance numbers for a RX-8: 5.9 0-60, and a 14.5-1/4mile, should be a bit better with the FB's lighter weight.

Please post a good write up. I'm planning on doing the same swap for my 85 SE. Just not as radical as you are. I'm gonna keep it streetable w/ some track/autox use. I'm sure others would like specs on the engine bracket, etc. Good Luck w/ your project! That thing is gonna FLY!

Good luck man. I deal with the renesis day in and day out. I got a couple quick questions for ya, dont know if you've considered the answer.

Are you planning to use the stock ECU, or mabey a haltech instead? The good news about the stock ECU is it mounts in the engine bay, so you dont have to deal with wiring it into the passenger kick pannel.

The renesis features a returnless fuel system. Are you going to keep it this way, or convert it to a return style so you have better controol over the fuel system?

The renesis throttle body is a fly by wire unit, how do you plan to tackle this? Paul Yaw converted it to a traditonal cable style one.

How do you plan on mounting it? I'm not totally sure, but I dont think our front covers bolt onto the renesis. I believe it has an extra bolt much like the 13B-REW.

What about the oil pan? Even if our front covers worked on the motor, the rx8 oil pan wouldnt work in conjunction with it. Its a VERY shallow oil pan.

The starter on the RX8 is on the engine side, rather than on the tranny like the RX7. What do you plan to do about it?

The renesis sits VERY low in the rx8 engine bay. So low that its easier to change the spark plugs with it up in the air. As a result the intake looks pretty damn tall. I'm not sure it would fit in our engine bay and still clear the steering rack.


These to me seem to be the main hurdles with putting a renesis in a first gen. Again GOOD LUCK man.

I too have wanted to do this since I read about the Renises back in 98 from Sport Compact car. Still have my car! =D So I'll be doing that too! But I awaite your report, good luck to ya man.

Very good questions....
Stock ECU, primarily for emissions and ease of initial install. In the UNLIKELY case that I feel the swap itself was easy, I may tackle a Haltech. The stock ECU with a simple piggyback is quite nice.

Most likely a typical return system.
I expect to use the "wire" system via the RX-8 pedal assy. I will put some effort into it. If it feels impossible, I will fab a cable system of some sort.
I plan to use the stock engine points and modify the 7 to accept it. That probably means rebuilding the cross bar that the motor a A-arms attach to. It will be many hours of intricate fabrication for that to happen. While doing so, I may try to incorporate the electric assist from the 8 because my left hand is handicap. Time is on my side.
This is OK. I will mount the engine as low as possible since I am building the cross brace / motor mounts from scratch anyway.
I hope i am lucky! I can't see it well enough to have an intelligent plan. I was thinking a BIG hammer and some silver duct tape should be OK.
See above. I am fabbing [or having fabbed] a fiber glass hood. I may need to bubble it a bit for fitment. I am reasonably confident that I will be able to mount it low enough to avoid that.
Target is more than 800lbs lighter than the 8. I will try the math to estimate acceleration. High 4's 0-60?? Probably better - A stock FD - 255hp/2850lbs 0-60 in 5.0. This car est.2200lbs/280+hp. Ohhhhhh Yeah!

GREAT comments and suggestions. Thank you. The web site is registered for the project. It will be ready in a few days.

http://www.1bad7.com
Pics on Tuesday 01/13

Eh not to argue, but I've driven an Rx8 and I have a stock Rx7. Unless you plan on making the cars footprint considerably larger then the stock 7 I don't think you'll beat out a stock FD. Don't get me wrong its going to be an AWESOME car but the power on the 8 is towards the end of the powerband were as the power on an FD starts alot sooner. Around 3k since the turbo's. And going back to my "footprint" comment. The tires are wider on an FD vs an FB. So you can lay more power down.

Again not to argue but just my 2cp. Good luck on the car its going to be the first of many in my eyes. :D

You also might want to see what was different in the renesis that was in the RX-EVOLV concept car. The power rating for that was 280HP. Since its the same basic motor, it makes sence that you would be able to get above 280 if you mod the mod the car right.

Also after driving the rx8 numerous times, it really lacks torque. Just for shits and giggles, ya might try with the idea of a small supercharger to get that thing to get up and go faster. The rx8 doesnt really seem to make much power till you get around 5K or so.

I mean your going all out on this, so why not see if you can help the torque while your at it?

The wheels on the rear will be somthing like 245/45-17 on 17x8.5's. Somewhere in that range. I will have a mild wide body fender to accept them OR machine custom hubs and tub the wheel wells to maintain stock lines. I don't really like the wide body kits. I certainly don't want traction to be an issue after spending $15k getting a boat load of power. And yes, all the power is 5k+. The answer to the accell. will come 5 or so months from now when this car is on the road. No since in guessing - just dreaming for now. Still 650lbs lighter than a stock FD.

No Forced Induction. If I simply wanted HP, I could do a SWEET modded TII swap for a fraction of the cost and get 300hp and more torque. NA all the way.

Doeas anyone have tips on sleepy eyes for the head lamps? has it already been done, or do I have to invent it? Please say it already exists.

True, power vs weight ratio is a huge consideration. Hence motorcycles.. they always win and don't have nearly as much power. I'm with you on the widebody kits though, the car is perfect and the stock look is nice. The only kit I really like is the one from Mariah

http://www.mariahmotorsports.com/ima...r/m4silv1a.jpg

We all like to dream, hell a 280hp street legel NA Rx7 is something all us rotor heads like to hear.

What do you mean by sleepy eyes? You looking for air to get into the engine bay or are you looking for the cosmetic 4 headlight system?

You mean like this? http://www.mazspeed.com/no%20motor1.jpg

I don't think there is a full kit out there because of the inherent dangers of modifying your lighting system. Should be lots of info on the forum if you do a quick search.