Supper

Okay... so i've been searching around this forum a bit and every time i search "rally" it comes up with all the different meets and whatnot.

I am currrently trying to figure out a plan on how, over the next couple years, to transorm my FB into a rally car. Have any of you ever done a project like this? If so, any links/info would be much appreciated.

Right now I am waiting on getting the pipe to start fabbing my roll cage and strut tower braces. Also looking for better seats and four point harnesses.

What i really need help finding info for is the suspension for rally cars. I know i don't want to lower my ride height anymore, but i need to stiffen it up and at the same time not lower it any, perhaps even lifting it a few inches.

Anyway... as soon as this project is underway I will be uploading pics for all of your enjoyment, or flaming... whichever.

~Sup

Kentetsu

Sorry I can't help you with this one, but I have to ask......where did you find that avatar?!? She's HOT!!!!

Supper

Hahahahah!!!!

All you have to do is search, and search, and search, and browse, and search some more, and browse some more. And finally say "Damn... she's hot... ima go crop that image a bit."

And goddamnit... its hard to find info on building rally cars.

~Sup

christaylor

Stiffen the chassis up a ****-*** load. For safety and performance, but mostly safety. You can do some google searches and find motherloads of pictures of rally cages.

I haven't built an FB rally car, but I'd like to one day. My understanding is that the stock suspension, albeit it a fairly new one, does a mighty-fine job on a rally course. Probably not the case in an Unlimited or highly-prepped class, but you probably shouldn't be starting out in one of those classes, anyway.

One thing to keep in mind with Rally cars is that they beat the living **** out of everything. A buddy of mine who rallies a Monza said the suspension has been a constant battle... stiffen one piece up, break another. Stiffen it up, break another piece. Fix and stiffen it and now one of your previously stiffened pieces breaks. With that in mind, I think keeping the car as close to stock as possible is a good idea, simply for the relative ease of finding parts.

For raising ride height on the front, get yourself some 1/4" or 1/2" aluminum and make yourself some custom strut spacers. Shouldn't take long if you've got a drill press and a large holesaw. The rear is a little trickier, but you can do basically the same thing on the shock mount and make a spring spacer.

Have you done some searching in the Racing forum? I know I've seen threads in there in one of the last few bursts where I've spent a few days reading around here. I'm guessing the last time I did that was August or so, if that'll help you narrow your search.

Good luck! And let me know if you need used parts!

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

I have been involved with rallying within the SCCA. There is also another choice now with NASA.

One of the greatest things about rallying is that dirt roads equalize allot of things. Just like in all other forms of motorsports - Money greatly increases your chances - but you can have tremendous fun and competitiveness without the absolute best of everything.

To start with the build up you need to remember that this vehicle must be street legal. You must have a tag and insurance. All the blinkers, horn, lights and such must work. Second thing you need to start the build up is a rule book. You would be building for the Group 5 class if it is SCCA. NASA has the same class just a different name. Group 5 is a open class for 2 wheel drive cars. Pretty much anything goes.

You will not need to raise the car at all. You will need some good shocks and some good springs. We rallied for years in a FB with stock rear springs and coil over up front. We did not have camber plates. You will want to stay with rubber bushing in all joints of the rear suspension. Solid bushings break things back there. Also, the rear end will bind with solid. We never changed from the Watts linkage.

Front suspension was done with a 1" to 1.5" longer front control arm. We would cut it a few inches from the inner pivot and add material to make it longer. We also use some steel plate along the bottom of the control arm to completely box it in. You will need to ask around for front spring rate starting points.

The chassis should be fully seam welded. You should also seam weld anything else you can like the cross member.
The cage must be built within the rule. You really need a rule book before you start building your cage. You want to build the best cage you can. Don't skimp on a cage. If you are balancing funds - spend the extra on the cage and skimp somewhere else.

In my opinion the stock gas tank is perfect. I only saw problems with adding a fuel cell. you will want a skid plate back there to protect it. You will also want one under the front sump.

Stock wheels work just fine with rally tires. You may want to convert to GSL-SE suspension to get the better bolt pattern. 13" rally tire are getting harder to find. You will also need a rally computer.

I guess that will get you going. You need to get a rule book, go and work or spectator a few rallies and start building.
Also remember, You could get some shocks, springs, a cage, rally tires, computer, seat belts and fab a few skid plates and go rally the car. Even without going all out frame shell up build you will have a blast. Like I said, dirt roads help equalize horse power. With a rear wheel drive you are not going to put more than 250 HP or so to the ground anyways. It is just a matter of time before you roll the car on its roof if you are going fast, so go have fun and go all out building your second car.

Some link for you.

http://www.specialstage.com/forum/cg...um/dcboard.cgi

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewforum....0d46779c05a11a

http://www.nasarallysport.com/

http://www.scca.com/Rally/Rally.asp?IdS=00790A-278F3D0&x=040|010&~=

rx7anator

search for 4x4 on this forums...iv started a thread on how to make a fb a 4 wheel drive mean machine (it has ben done before)

Supper

Why would I want to build the FB into the 4 wheel drive?

I know it sounds like it would be fun, and i have thought about it. But if I am going to go 4x4 its going to be an impreza or something, not an FB. And... rear wheel drives are more fun.

Thank you for the info. I had plans to go to the Collorado Cog Rally, but i don't think i will be able to get the time off from work. Hopefully I will make it to one or two sometime in the near future if i can find enough info on them.

And the rule books are now downloaded, i had allready planned out my roll cage, will now see if it fits within the rules. Was allready going to order the 4 point harnesses on monday, and i allready have a parts car so when i wreck this one i can swap (some) parts.

Now the only decision to be made is if i should use the FB with the moon roof, or the FB with the solid roof.

~Sup

christaylor

If it's legal, use the moon roof and weld it shut (or cut the roof off the other and weld it on). Little bit more weight, but also a little stiffer.

Supper

See... now the problem with that is i need a damn rule book. And every one (all 12 of them) that i've downloaded so far have been so goddamned corrupted that they wouldn't read.

but thanks for the suggestion, i'll look into it if I can ever find myself a copy of the rule book.

~Sup

Lint

http://rx7rally.tripod.com/sus.html
http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/sccafue...brallyrx7.html
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...highlight=1980
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=174070

havoc rx7

Glad to hear some one else has the right idea about running a rally car.
I am in the last stages of my third gen1 rally car. No you can not have a moon roof hope you used seamless pipe on your cage with at least quarter inch feet 6 inches square. How the hell will you stop the car on 13" tires and rims where will the brakes go?

Supper

uh... what?

1/4 inch feet 6 inches squared? what exactly is that supposed to mean?

and as for brakes... i hadn't gone that far into the planning phase yet to even consider stopping power.

~Sup

Kweasi

I work with the Subaru Canada rally team and one of our drivers used to rally a 1st gen; in fact he became north american champ in it. Tom McGeer. Also, Andrew Havas rallies a road-stripe orange 1st gen in SCCA, or at lease he used to.

To make any car into a reasonable rally car you need at a bare minnimum:
1) A really good cage that will sigficantly strengthen the chassis
2) Good rally suspension such as DMS, Reiger, Leda etc. DMS is probably the best value but I don't know if they make a set-up specifically for Mazdas. Adapting a similar configuration may be your best bet.
3) Rally Tires
4) See above
5) See number 4
6) A rally computer; the terratrip 303 is a good value and quite respectable
7) sump-gaurds/ horror flaps and other underbody armour
With these items you'll have a well prepared car for performance rally. But you should consider doing some TSD rallies first to get the feel for it.

It may or may not be necessary to raise the car, it depends on the roughness of the rally. All rally-specific suspensions have adjustable ride height so this is something of a non-issue.

Seam welding is definatley a good thing but may not be practical and is not completely necessary.

Also, you need to realize that rally is BRUTAL on the cars and unless you're prepared to shell out big time for spares..... Well... you know.

-Kwe

Supper

Well, i allready have a few spare cars laying around. Other FB's i've picked up for super cheap. And allready have a few lines on rally tires for not too expensive.

This winter is going to be way busy getting this **** built up and ready to go...

Thanks for all the info guys.

~Sup

christaylor

The "1/4 inch 6 inch square" gibberish, I'm assuming, is the pads that you weld in under the "feet" of the cage. Quite frankly, 1/4" is a little thick, and 6" square is a little small. The strength difference between 3/16" and 1/4" isn't enough to outweigh the...well...weight. Plus, it will cost more (not much, but it will cost more). This is another thing that you'll need to check the rules on, as SCCA Club Racing has a max # of square inches.

Also, with the RX-7, you can gain considerable stiffness with a little ingenuity and thinking. If you can't figure it out by staring at a bare interior, PM me and I'll send you some pics.

EDIT: Added too many letters.

Supper

Well, hopefully tomorow i will have all of the rule books that i need printed out and can start planning the roll cage.

christaylor: i have allready figured out a few ways to give the 7 some good stiffness, just trying to figure out how to tie all of the different ideas together into one, cohesive design. with integral seat mounts and all.

I'll have to start taking pics of this project here soon.

~Sup

disorientedninja

Race setups are hard. Good luck...be sure to get pics.

Kentetsu

I still want to know where I can find more photos of your avatar Supper! Don't hold out on me now!!!

alien_rx7

I've volunteered at 100 Acre Woods ClubRally down in Missouri and Lake Superior ProRally in MI and had a blast. I've got pictures of the rally 7's and video of a couple of them off the start lines and zooming by in the woods too.

Too bad you're not closer to St. Louis, MO. Izzy's Custom Cages in St. Louis custom fits some sweet cages for 7's.

Something important that you need that everyone else has left off the list.....a competant co-driver. G'luck and I can't wait to see some pics of your project!

alien_rx7

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Another good link is http://www.rallyclassified.com/

Supper

If you are really that despirate i guess i could dig around my hard disk and see if I can't find the picture sets of her that I have.

That might be true, but nothing nicer then one built by with your own two hands.

And thanks for the link.

The new problem i face is the ******* i bought this thing from didn't get the title notorized before handing it over, so now the state is dicking me around getting the title and everything for it. And, the way I understand the rules, you can't rally it unless it is liscenced.

~Sup

alien_rx7

Man I feel ya. I've had to mess around with title issues on two seperate vehicles before. One on a pickup that the guy never swapped the title into his name and actually tried to erase something on it which voided it. I had to track down the owner that owned it before him to get everything straightened out and man was that owner peeved since he could have been held liable if anything had happened!

Other was on my current 7. Since it had an out of state title and the state I was in has safety inspections, I had to get it inspected before the title could be switched only thing was that the car's motor wasn't running when I got it and you only have like 30 days after purchase to swap the title before this particular state I was in starts charging late fees. In this particular state there was an exception on their title transfer application and basically came down to if the car was over 10 years old it was mileage exempt (other thing I could do was have mileage verified without have safety inspection and then get title transferred) and when I pointed that out they got irrate at me and told me I had to still have it checked out because it was an out of state car! Stupid DMV employees, grrrr.

Anyway, way off topic. Rally is "Real Cars, Real Roads, Real Fast" They must be street legal, licensed and insured.

kleinke

Street legal is contradictory. Or else what rules is that a different class? They cannot be street legal with the extra lights and other modifications.

alien_rx7

Hmm, extra lights is just fine on the street. Otherwise, why don't the trucks with "roll bars" that have the lights on top get pulled over then? Those extra lights you see on the rally cars are generally only on them during the night stages and are then only turned on during the special stages, not transit stages (where they are mixing with normal traffic).

As far as other modifications, please explain.

Supper

As the SCCA rule book reads, you are even required to have cats on it, dammit. Which really sucks, because i live in an emissions free state therefore have no need of cats, but because it came as "standard equipment" i am required to have on on there. They didn't say if it was checked to see if it was gutted, or if it needed to meet spec. Just that it had to be on there and the car has to be liscenced.

~Sup