Which one is really the best carb?
07-29-04, 12:35 AM
#27
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What's the BEST carb? My Edelbrock 600, of course!! Yes, it's not the best for long hi-gee corners (still can't get all of the cut-out cured) but 21mpg drive to work and still pulling at 8000 rpm works for me... Seriously, I recommend the Edelbrock for a good street carb (if you remember to lean out the secondary jets, cut-out the spacer between the secondarys and run the "off-road" needles) as it is cheap and stone reliable (unless you put the new secondary jets in the PRIMARY position, but that's a whole 'nother story.....). I'm searching for a good, used 500 (almost impossible, it seems) to see if I can up the low and mid-range response even more. Mostly for autocross and street, ya know.
With a tip to Mr. Stirling and his fine products if I had the money/fabrication skills/time I'd use four Mikuni CV motorcycle carbs in a progressive setup. Hard to imagine carbs getting any better than that. I've heard there once was a double Weber setup available that worked fantastically but was expensive and is now discontinued.
Sanspistons for a brighter, whiter smile
With a tip to Mr. Stirling and his fine products if I had the money/fabrication skills/time I'd use four Mikuni CV motorcycle carbs in a progressive setup. Hard to imagine carbs getting any better than that. I've heard there once was a double Weber setup available that worked fantastically but was expensive and is now discontinued.
Sanspistons for a brighter, whiter smile
07-29-04, 02:08 AM
#28
Originally Posted by cdrad51
doubt it. Just the A/C would make a considerable difference in weight.
ok but you removed your a/c and air pump
what else could the FB heavier at? drivetrain perhaps? can't be... since mel's running GSL complete rear end and axles.
i say cdrad and mel line it up.
btw FYI, the SA is same streetport as yours. he's just scaring you. wink wink*
07-29-04, 07:09 AM
#30
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I agree 97% with what Sterling is saying, but have to add a couple of caveats
Webers have a very good progression design that allows light throttle to be easily tuned for even radical engines. May need the odd extra hole drilling but can be made to work very well. The problems come in the transition to the main circuit, where a 4bbl will always start off with an advantage. Transition can be fixed, but few have bothered actually taking the time to do it right, leaving most weber'd rotaries with a dreadful bog at around 2500-3000RPM.
Sterling and Carl have taken the time to come up with packages optimising the stock carb for modern users' requirements. This will put them at an advantage over 95% of the weber tuners I have come across. So unless you can locate someone willing to put in the hours to perfect a tune on an IDA or DCOE then you will never have a decent comparison.
Oh and note to wackyracer. If you can't spell Weber, what hope do you have of being able to tune one?
Webers have a very good progression design that allows light throttle to be easily tuned for even radical engines. May need the odd extra hole drilling but can be made to work very well. The problems come in the transition to the main circuit, where a 4bbl will always start off with an advantage. Transition can be fixed, but few have bothered actually taking the time to do it right, leaving most weber'd rotaries with a dreadful bog at around 2500-3000RPM.
Sterling and Carl have taken the time to come up with packages optimising the stock carb for modern users' requirements. This will put them at an advantage over 95% of the weber tuners I have come across. So unless you can locate someone willing to put in the hours to perfect a tune on an IDA or DCOE then you will never have a decent comparison.
Oh and note to wackyracer. If you can't spell Weber, what hope do you have of being able to tune one?
about the spelling.. and yes I can tune and do my own mods.
07-29-04, 08:17 AM
#33
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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Originally Posted by Sanspistons
With a tip to Mr. Stirling and his fine products if I had the money/fabrication skills/time I'd use four Mikuni CV motorcycle carbs in a progressive setup. Hard to imagine carbs getting any better than that.
While offering up a carb alternative to the masses, Carl and I have discovered a very important concideration which I've dubbed the "HTAFTL"...The Home Tuner Average Frustration Threshold Level.
-Selling an induction system that requires more attention than the HTAFTL usually allows, and you'll spend countless hours on the phone, ultimately making about $1.25 an hour for what's supposed to be just a "little carburetor side business" that monopolizes all of your time and causes your day job and family life to suffer.
-I've actually discouraged sales by letting inquirers know the raw truth about carb tuning.
It's tough. When I get an email and the guy doesn't even have the rat's nest off, or a header exaust, then I pretty much know that he has a lot to learn before he dives head first into carb tuning.
Some people ask me how to remove the carb. That's when I know I'm really in for it!
07-29-04, 01:07 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by wwilliam54
on any real high performance setup, yeah most aftermarket carbs would be able to do better then a nikki
the main advantage of the modded nikki is that you can get good performance for 300$ rather than 600$ IMHO
the main advantage of the modded nikki is that you can get good performance for 300$ rather than 600$ IMHO
07-29-04, 02:46 PM
#36
Originally Posted by bill Shurvinton
So when would you use an F3 in preference to an F11 emulsion in a rotary?
And by picking on mis-spelled word, Can you spell this?
Dont you think its TIME FOR YA TO GROW UP?
07-29-04, 03:11 PM
#37
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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Originally Posted by Rx779
Now why would I spend 300 to 400 $$$$ when I can save a little bit more and just buy a WEBER!!!
You're exactly the kind of customer we don't want.
We like skeptical customers just fine.
It's people with preconcieved notions about carburetors they've never tried that aren't willing to take the time to learn the basics of carburetion that we don't like to bother wasting our time with.
07-29-04, 04:03 PM
#39
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No it isn't. It's identical to an F11 with the exception of being narrower, which can be very useful when running large chokes which cause bogging at transition.
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
07-29-04, 04:11 PM
#40
it WILL run
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Originally Posted by Rx779
Now why would I spend 300 to 400 $$$$ when I can save a little bit more and just buy a WEBER!!!
300$ for that good of a carb is a damn good deal IMHO
07-29-04, 06:44 PM
#41
Originally Posted by bill Shurvinton
No it isn't. It's identical to an F11 with the exception of being narrower, which can be very useful when running large chokes which cause bogging at transition.
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
the way I personally see it is that, why would i spend money on a modded nikki carb when i could play w/ the 48 IDA for only $100 more dollars. versatility? uhh... you mean plug and play? if it bolts in and runs in my FB, then that's versatile enough. a dedicated tuner/enthusiast will know that w/ versatility comes a compromise. i can't be fast ENOUGH to beat another racer w/ an IDA, but OK, i guess i'll be more "versatile." get the picture? if you notice, wackoracer's IDA's are tuned for streetability as well, or else he wouldn't use it to drive to work EVERY SINGLE DAY.
no one ever taught me that tuning was "versatile." it's more like research, then some trial and error, then a little more thinking, trial and error, then will i understand it.
sterling, i respect what you and carl do, but i've seen the light w/ the IDA's and there's really no coming back to other carbs. maybe if other people just played and had the patience to tune the webers will they understand how powerful and yes, "versatile" they are.
btw bill Shurvinton, you spelled "grammer" wrong.
07-29-04, 06:56 PM
#42
Originally Posted by bill Shurvinton
No it isn't. It's identical to an F11 with the exception of being narrower, which can be very useful when running large chokes which cause bogging at transition.
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
Sounds like you have learned some of the tricks with Webers, but there are still some there for you to pick up. Your grammer seems to fail you as well if you take umbrage at something.
But back on track, this proves what I was saying about Carl and Sterling. They have put in the time in theory on the flowbench and in practice on cars looking at every aspect of the standard carb and how it affects running in a variety of engines.
I still haven't seen this level of development done on webers
talk is cheap. Why dont you buy an IDA from Racing Beat and tell me what type of mod they have done to it. The answer is NOTHING!!!
Last edited by Siraniko; 07-29-04 at 07:11 PM.
07-29-04, 06:57 PM
#43
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
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Bill, Carl and I applaud anyone and everyone's effort who tries to better the limited choices of carburetion for the rotary.
I appreciate your celebration of our hard work, but there's really no need to be this way to Mel.
Perhaps you are not privy to the fact that we are just playing around when we pit our creations against each other's. There's no need for malice. If someone started questioning me in an effort to put me on the spot, I t
hink I would become irritated, too.
The whole spelling thing, well that's a seperate issue. I find it extremely pretty, pretencious,(uhmmm, did I spell that correctly? - Don't wanna look stupid, 'n all...) and very unconstructive.
So please, with all due respect, at least regarding the spelling, stuff it in your ****.
I appreciate your celebration of our hard work, but there's really no need to be this way to Mel.
Perhaps you are not privy to the fact that we are just playing around when we pit our creations against each other's. There's no need for malice. If someone started questioning me in an effort to put me on the spot, I t
hink I would become irritated, too.The whole spelling thing, well that's a seperate issue. I find it extremely pretty, pretencious,(uhmmm, did I spell that correctly? - Don't wanna look stupid, 'n all...) and very unconstructive.
So please, with all due respect, at least regarding the spelling, stuff it in your ****.
07-30-04, 02:44 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by wackyracer
talk is cheap. Why dont you buy an IDA from Racing Beat and tell me what type of mod they have done to it. The answer is NOTHING!!!
07-30-04, 11:48 AM
#46
Airflow is my life
Glad you guys are playing nice again, please keep it that way.
And Im not gonna harp too much on this but no one seems to add the cost of the manifold, air cleaner etc when you go with an aftermarket carb. So ours come up MUCH cheaper in total.
pssst- d0 Luck, it's GRAMMAR.
And Im not gonna harp too much on this but no one seems to add the cost of the manifold, air cleaner etc when you go with an aftermarket carb. So ours come up MUCH cheaper in total.
pssst- d0 Luck, it's GRAMMAR.
