brownmound

Well I've got the Mound back together again and nervously went to fire her up....cranks but no start. Seemed flooded, went to flip my flood switch, Do'h, it was down...flipped it up, cranks, but no turnover.

Pulled the plugs, a little wet, dried em, nothing. Pulled em again, cranked the engine over, the PFFF! PFFFF! PFFF!'s sound lound and strong. Put the plugs back in, nothing.

Tested for spark by arcing a screwdriver to the strut bolts...all arc'ed fine. So the spark is good.

Now I remember when the Mound would flood in the past that it would start to wreak of unburned gas. Tonight I really didn't smell anything...fuel problem maybe?

Looking at the firewall, the two fuel lines, which is the send and which is the return? I've got the send on the left and the return on the right.

No leaks from the injectors that I can see.

Oh, and the trailing coil, is it the one towards the front of the car??

Maybe I'll push start it tomorrow. It did flood right before I started all the work, so I just shut it down. That was 2 1/2 months ago. I did put some MMO in the engine while the intake was off. But all that gas and oil flew out when I removed the plugs.

I'm pissed....not that I expected it to fire right up, but man that would have been nice.

Right on.

thorage327

did you mess with the timing at all?

spark, fuel and compression are the 3 things needed to make a motor run, and it sounds like you have all of that, so maybe just a bit of fine tuning is in order....

brownmound

No I really didn't move the distributor at all, since I have yet to clean that side of the engine. I just wanted to get it going and run it for a few days before I started tearing down that side.

Definitely got the spark, compression should be fine, not so sure about fuel since I don't smell like I normally do. That's what I am going to look into tomorrow.

I'm thinking it might be in need of the super flooded push start motivation.

Right on.

Max7

I have had to do the de-flood procedure 5-6 times in a row after having the car sit for long periods of working on it.
would just seem to be dead, then after many de-floodings it would fire again, done this on 2 of my 7's
don't give up, use 2 sets of plugs, and crank away!

12aPwr

maybe its time for a shower?











j/k

nopistonsforjoe

i think the larger diameter hose is the sending and the smaller diameter with the valve in it is the return. someone correct me if im wrong

Suparslinc

Trailing is usually in the front, I think. at least on my '84 12A

How long has the car been sitting?

what exactly do you mean by, "cranks, but no turnover."? By definition, the two are mutually exclusive

So you are saying you have spark, fuel, and compression? Sounds like the engine is flooded. Remember, you cannot "unflood" a rotary; it just takes time. Pull and clean the plugs, let the car sit for 24 hours, repeat

Suparslinc

Sorry about the last part, what I MEANT was you have to manually unflood a rotary. Meaning, you need to turn the engine by hand a couple of times, during that 24 hour period. Otherwise the fuel will just sit in the bottom.

inittab

I wonder if the fuel pump is wired the same on the SE as it is on the 12a's of that year. I know on mine that the pump doesn't start pumping untill the engine has started. During your cleaning you have purged all fuel from the system. If I were you I would 'hot wire' the fuel pump temporarily so it can fill your fuel delivery system. Under the drivers side storage bin is the connector for the fuel pump. That's a good place to hook up your hot wires. Good luck!

SoRRoW

Disconnect the fuel lines to yoru carb,Put the key on the start postion,and come repost

brownmound

I think the fuel pump is on and charged when the key is on...I felt the lines and they felt pressurized, so I think the injectors are getting fuel...I need to test to make sure they are injecting it.

The car has only been sitting about 2 1/2 months. Sorry to confuse, but the engine does crank or turnover, but it doesn't ever "catch." Not even really a hint of it catching really. Cleaned the plugs a couple of times, cranked it with them out, put em back, nothing.

Tried it with cables hooked up the Passat, since the battery was getting weak from all that starting. Nothing.

Was too tired last night to F with it, but now I've got the weekend to get it running. I'll try unflooded a couple of times, maybe get new sparks, try the push start. The engine compression sounds super strong...it's just a little cranky coming out of it's surgery.

Right on.

FJ

The high pressure line is on the right, return on the left.
High pressure goes to the pulsation damper at the front of the fuel rail. The easy way to know if they are hooked up correctly is that the two lines do not cross: if you hook the high pressure line to the regulator at the rear of the fuel rail, the return line would have to go over/under it. They should run parallel.
If you short the fuel pump test connector with the key on you should hear a "rushing" sound under the intake as the fuel circulates through the rail. If the lines were crossed I suspect it would be silent; I don't know if the regulator allows backwards flow.

Trailing is front.

-John.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

a couple of gsl-se no start bugaboo's
make sure the afm is hooked up, it has a fuel pump cut switch in the afm, so afm no hooked up or open = no fuel pump. also the ecu gets its rpm signal from the trailing side ignition, so no trailing ignition = no starty for you.
even dumber, is that the fuel system takes some cranking to prime, so maybe you just didnt sit there long enough?

mike

inittab

With no signal at the trailing coil, the pump will not run.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

AHEM, atf...........

inittab

stobrien

I have this exact same problem. I put in MMO in the fall every this ran good and now I cannot get it to fire. I have notice that as soon as I turn on the ignition the put starts. I have a 84 GS

brownmound

Well I jumped the fuel pump at the connector by the air box and I hear fuel flowing, checked the lines and they are routed correctly. Took the plugs out and cranked it with the pump on and mist came out of the holes, so I think the injectors are working. Spark was good at the wires (with a screwdriver in em they arced to the body).

Just tried to push start it. It caught for a few seconds but it didn't sound strong at all, just a put put put put and then nothing. Never fully caught. The spark plugs are fairly new and pretty clean.

I'm stumped.

Right on.

FJ

Nope. The pump only runs with the ign in Start on the SE. Even if the engine does not start, as long as you are cranking the pump will run.

-John.

brownmound

Oh ok so the pump runs when the key is @ Start and then once it's in the On position it's up to the AFM flapper door to turn on the fuel pump? Is that right?

Still, the pump should run when the key is on, so assuming all else is good the engine should catch, and if it were the AFM door the engine would die as soon as I released the key. Is that right?

I still don't know if it's a fuel problem or a spark problem. It felt pretty "boggy" trying to start.

Right on.

FJ

Did you push it with another vehicle or just by hand? From what you had said earlier, I was sure the fuel lines were crossed. If they are connected correctly and you have spark, I'd have to go along with the others and say it's severely flooded, as in push start it with another vehicle. Mine has not been beyond the remove plugs and crank state when my injectors were leaky, but if yours has been sitting for a while after flooding I wouldn't be surprised if aggressive push starting is needed. Don't know what else it may be.

-John.

brownmound

Just by hand...started it in 2nd gear....like I said it just puttered a bit but never really caught. I guess since I am starting this way I need to verify that the AFM is activating the fuel pump (easy) since the ignition will not see the Start position. I don't think that's it though. I may remove the intake and get to the fuel rail to make sure the injectors are firing OK.

Yeah I was sitting at work today hoping the fuel lines were crossed too. But they are hooked up correctly and I can hear fuel moving when I short the test connector.

So, for a vehicle push start, how fast and what gear?

Right on.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

20-30 mph in 3rd gear.

brownmound

Thanks....probably try that tomorrow. I tested the AFM operation of the fuel pump, it's fine. Battery is weak from all the starting, now it won't even turn over without another car's help. I might pick up a new Red Top tonight for good measure, since that's on the list of upgrades anyways. Make sure I'm getting good spark. The only other thing to really check is the injectors resistance and flow, but I'd like to keep the intake on unless I really have to remove it. I don't think those are the problem. I made sure the connectors were tight, and I had em tested when they were out.

Thanks for all the help guys...you guys kick ***. I know it will start, it's just frustrating after putting so much work into the thing.

Right on.

79+80+84_rx-7

push start with another vehicle, or, get four guys that arent scrawny...... and mmo wouldnt hurt...... or what I just learned tonight, fogging oil......

spray a bit in carb/efi intake, crank engine with throttle floored, start engine............................................ ..... Try push starting with car first.........




Good luck~Thanx, Laterz, Andrew