Miata Torsen Differential in 85 GSL technical questions?
05-02-10, 09:43 PM
#26
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Here's the deal, when LSD's break due to burnouts and such it's clutch plates slipping. On a torsen it's worm gears shattering. Miata torsens are not the strongest units and while stout, it is not unheard of for them to explode, so if you're doing something that's hard on the diff. I'd stay away. Rebuilding an LSD is cheap and easy. Not to mention that torsens behave like an open diff when one wheel looses traction all together (which is why for off-roading and burnouts that are not highly recommended).
After-market Torsens are pretty bullet-proof and I would not worry about a quaife or anything like that no matter what you threw at it, but the miata unit is not one of those.
That said, my 200whp turbo miata cuts nice SMOOTH 2nd gear fishtails that are beautiful to control, but that's all the abuse I throw at it. To really understand why you want a torsen, step on the gas hard, just before the apex to a corner. I'd swear the damn car rotates AROUND the apex. Definitely a track/grip racing type of diff.
Hope that helps.
05-03-10, 10:18 AM
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I'm working on this. I'm looking for the torsen and the 4.44 ring & pinnion to make a complete rebuild. My next rack day is on June 13 with new wheels and tire for complete the package. So I'm againts the clock!!! let see
05-03-10, 12:17 PM
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05-03-10, 12:19 PM
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05-03-10, 02:18 PM
#34
I ran a type 1 torsen for a while. It was phenomenal on the track. I was able to apply power way before I was with the clutch type LSD. my roommate's Miata has a type 2. It's a completely different driving experience. When you get on the power with a type 1 only one tire spins until the final exit of a turn. You get the good of an open diff and the good of a clutch type but you also get the bad of an open diff. A type 1 is not drift friendly. Type 2's kick so much more ***. My type one was only in my car for maybe 5 weeks before it started howling so loudly it was unbearable in the car. We tore it apart and couldn't find one thing that was causing the howl...
05-03-10, 02:44 PM
#35
Were you saying that type two is just a better overall, or just in drift?
I ran a type 1 torsen for a while. It was phenomenal on the track. I was able to apply power way before I was with the clutch type LSD. my roommate's Miata has a type 2. It's a completely different driving experience. When you get on the power with a type 1 only one tire spins until the final exit of a turn. You get the good of an open diff and the good of a clutch type but you also get the bad of an open diff. A type 1 is not drift friendly. Type 2's kick so much more ***. My type one was only in my car for maybe 5 weeks before it started howling so loudly it was unbearable in the car. We tore it apart and couldn't find one thing that was causing the howl...
05-03-10, 07:14 PM
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05-03-10, 08:33 PM
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Simply, any serious performance app: get a type 2, but again, for drifting torsens are fragile compared to clutch LSD's
05-03-10, 08:38 PM
#40
If you are concerned with performance, you want a type 2. What changes is the amount of lock up, or how aggressive the diff behaves. Torsens actively bias torque to the wheel with traction and the type 2 does this with more authority.
Simply, any serious performance app: get a type 2, but again, for drifting torsens are fragile compared to clutch LSD's
Simply, any serious performance app: get a type 2, but again, for drifting torsens are fragile compared to clutch LSD's
Anyone know what come in the 3rd gen type?
Also why is the first type more expensive than the second type?
05-04-10, 05:07 PM
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05-05-10, 12:13 AM
#43
If you are concerned with performance, you want a type 2. What changes is the amount of lock up, or how aggressive the diff behaves. Torsens actively bias torque to the wheel with traction and the type 2 does this with more authority.
Simply, any serious performance app: get a type 2, but again, for drifting torsens are fragile compared to clutch LSD's
Simply, any serious performance app: get a type 2, but again, for drifting torsens are fragile compared to clutch LSD's
the problem with the torsen is that once traction is lost it will transfer power to the wheel with no traction. so if you pick up the inside rear wheel through a turn it will spin in the air freely. That's one problem I was having in my car with my suspension. I took off the rear bar and that fixed it, but the $350 torsen only lasted a few weeks.
05-05-10, 04:14 AM
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the problem with the torsen is that once traction is lost it will transfer power to the wheel with no traction. so if you pick up the inside rear wheel through a turn it will spin in the air freely. That's one problem I was having in my car with my suspension. I took off the rear bar and that fixed it, but the $350 torsen only lasted a few weeks.
First what type of torsen did you have?
Second. I know that your comment is from your experience but does the LSD are supposed to do the opposite that you mentioned? From waht I know the LSD should sent the power with the tire with traction.
05-05-10, 04:28 AM
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LSD's do not "send" power anywhere. They simply prevent power from taking the path of least resistance. "Slip" is when the right and left wheels rotate at differing speeds. So by logic a "limited slip" differential is one that tends to keep both wheels rotating.
So in an open differential you do a burn-out and all the power goes to the wheel that starts spinning first. In an LSD they both spin regardless. More and more aggressive LSD's will behave closer to a locker or spool, but they are all designed to disengage at some point, it depends on how they are setup.
A torsen on the other hand DOES send power to the wheel with the most traction, the problem is that this is only when both wheels HAVE some modicum of traction. If one wheel looses traction ENTIRELY (like in the example of lifting the inside tire) the torsen will behave like an open diff. So in the case of tire lift, the LSD is better, but because it will keep both wheels spinning, not because it sends anything anywhere.
So in an open differential you do a burn-out and all the power goes to the wheel that starts spinning first. In an LSD they both spin regardless. More and more aggressive LSD's will behave closer to a locker or spool, but they are all designed to disengage at some point, it depends on how they are setup.
A torsen on the other hand DOES send power to the wheel with the most traction, the problem is that this is only when both wheels HAVE some modicum of traction. If one wheel looses traction ENTIRELY (like in the example of lifting the inside tire) the torsen will behave like an open diff. So in the case of tire lift, the LSD is better, but because it will keep both wheels spinning, not because it sends anything anywhere.
05-05-10, 05:07 AM
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LSD's do not "send" power anywhere. They simply prevent power from taking the path of least resistance. "Slip" is when the right and left wheels rotate at differing speeds. So by logic a "limited slip" differential is one that tends to keep both wheels rotating.
So in an open differential you do a burn-out and all the power goes to the wheel that starts spinning first. In an LSD they both spin regardless. More and more aggressive LSD's will behave closer to a locker or spool, but they are all designed to disengage at some point, it depends on how they are setup.
A torsen on the other hand DOES send power to the wheel with the most traction, the problem is that this is only when both wheels HAVE some modicum of traction. If one wheel looses traction ENTIRELY (like in the example of lifting the inside tire) the torsen will behave like an open diff. So in the case of tire lift, the LSD is better, but because it will keep both wheels spinning, not because it sends anything anywhere.
So in an open differential you do a burn-out and all the power goes to the wheel that starts spinning first. In an LSD they both spin regardless. More and more aggressive LSD's will behave closer to a locker or spool, but they are all designed to disengage at some point, it depends on how they are setup.
A torsen on the other hand DOES send power to the wheel with the most traction, the problem is that this is only when both wheels HAVE some modicum of traction. If one wheel looses traction ENTIRELY (like in the example of lifting the inside tire) the torsen will behave like an open diff. So in the case of tire lift, the LSD is better, but because it will keep both wheels spinning, not because it sends anything anywhere.
05-05-10, 07:13 AM
#48
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i can't find a gsl-se axle to fit the miata torsen...
any other options for axle?aftermarket?i also can get my hands to a kia sportage 4x4 axle with the diff and everything for 200$ but don't know if will work on my little fb...
any other options for axle?aftermarket?i also can get my hands to a kia sportage 4x4 axle with the diff and everything for 200$ but don't know if will work on my little fb...