So let me see if this is the current theory:

If so, I will agree with these figures. When the day is Hot, and the Mechanical Fan clutch is engaged, I DEFINATELY feel additional drag on the engine.

If the day is Not Hot, and the fan clutch has not engaged, It feels fine.

This is why I would prefer an e-fan to avoid a fan clutch drawing unnecessary parasitic drag.

I don't have dyno numbers to follow this up, but living in South Florida, the mechanical fan clutch is DEFINATELY engaged most of the time. Maybe you guys in the northern climates never have this problem, so for you guys, it is not worth it to have an e-fan since your fan clutches rarely engage.

Just my 02 cents.

 

Northern climates lol! I love it... it's only been over 100º for the past week . My mech fan/clutch has been engaged all the time lately. It's kinda loud too, so I can hear it peak around 2500rpm. I DONT feel any difference in HP with the fan on and engaged or completely removed from the car.

My personal theory (which seems to ring true in the real world) is that the fan draws less than 5 hp from the engine when it is on (I'd guess 1-2 hp). This figure is based on the design of the fan and the amount of air it pulls. It's also based on the fact that completely removing the fan has had no discernable effect on my cars acceleration in any gear.

 

"it's not the heat, it's the humidity!"

 

Ahh, there's nothing like a good pissing contest.

The truth is this is all pure speculation. Mar3 does at least have some sort of scientific evidence but since it's a different fan on a different engine it's far from conclusive.

It would be interesting to see how much loss there really is. Maybe I'll find out when I have my car on the dyno in a few weeks time.

 

um one more time...any difference between the victoria british fan and the black magic? is it worth the extra 100 bucks?

 

One more time...get the Derale fan for $120 from Jeg's or Summit...it hits 2175 cfm now (my old Derale was a 1900 cfm unit...still don't know if it survived the crash...) and is more than adequate for even a hot streetport 12A...

 

You didn't think I'd let that one run, didya? I'm not going to reshape Nikki carb venturis and guess at all the things needed to properly modify one for more airflow with the emission circuits intact by myself. I know when to ask for help and that's what I did. You couldn't help me. Weber guy or something like that...And, no, everybody, Yaw wouldn't help either since it was an '80 carb...

 

Wacky's opinion:

Silverrocket: smart, seems to believe the obvious: a 10% hp gain is not exactly attainable by removing a mazda 12a rotaries fan/clutch assembly. Then compare a stock fan with on and with off, knows the difference is negalible and any difference you feel is well with in the realm of phsyicological increase.

Mar3: is exactly that, from Mars. (J/K) You seem to know your basics...sort of. But big increases are testimonials being forced blown up your *** by the nascar and other southern drawl talkin crowd. You can't compare a 45hp gain on a testimonial/mustang proof(sarcasism) to a 45hp gain on a first gen RX-7. The gain of that much would make a huge difference in power. I'm am not interpiting what you consider a big increase except by a G-tech/toy which you seem to believe is dyno proof? Get over the fact your increase from your expensive fan is just not helping much at all. Unless you are comparing it to a stock fan with a stuck clutch that begins to slip on the pulley by 4000rpm. The stock belts just can't carry much hp because the belt would slip by 4000rpm as I have compared this from a good fan clutch and a bad one. Yes, the belt tension was were it should be for this test. You should consider getting your own water brake dyno proof and show someone it if your sooo sure. Anyway, The belt is not going to support any 45hp transfer and would slip before it robs 10hp.

 

Wacky, I like you, now you can be counted among the limited few on this thread who actually know of which they speak

 

For the love of God above, go back and actually read page 2 this time, ya Wack...quote the part where I said a rotary would gain 45 HP...you're not going to find it...and I was defending the G-Tech's honor...the fan was already on by the Sunday I tried the thing in the TCC parking lot...read and think before you type...and learn how to spell while you're at it.... You are now ant-pile 3....

 

Hey Mar, between the lounge and here you're really making lots of friends this week I personally think your tendency to 'name' people could be a contributing factor...

 

Actually, the people in this part of the Forum are probably wondering why you went ballistic on me... I think I'm going to stroll over and see how the mewing animal is doing.... Crazy shifts to work, huh? I'm here to midnight...last week of this nonsense, though...

 

Haha, you'll particularly enjoy my latest contribution to that one Not me, I'm doing this 6am fun all summer baby... so be prepared for many more jaunty discussions in the months to come

 

sheesh...

ddddaaaammmmnnnnnnn!! Ain't you the mean one! Really, when you think about it, this thread and the mewster one are the only ones that have gotten me all sterling like...do a search with "mar3" and read some of the other posts if you don't believe me....there are some very personal reasons why I'm ripping NN...along the lines of "been there, done that" but I didn't succumb....here's a nice Texan saying I made up for the supervisors at UPS when I was a driver that I'm not going to post elsewhere since it would be wasted...

"If a man ain't good for his word, he ain't good fer nuthin'..."
-Mario Aguirre III

The word being vows in the other case...

 

Originally by mar3

"I feel all...sterling and stuff..."

Heh heh.
Yup, I'm here. Just tried to convince crankit that mechanically operated secondaries are much better in a sports car application than vacuum operated ones.
He did'nt buy it.
Jerk.


Just dropped by to say you guys are all fulla ****!
Ordinarily, I would team up with mar3 - not because I think he's right, but because he's just a hell of alot funnier than any of you guys!

However, you simply cannot compare one clutch fan to another (or one electric fan to another, for that matter).

In all this sea of just pure, unadulterated wisdom and ****** knowledge...Is there anyone who knows anything about areodynamics? At all?
Yeah, me neither. But I'm willing to bet that the number of blades on the fan, the pitch of the blades, the width of the blades, the length of the blades -(Really, please. Do I have to go on?)...all dramatically change the drag on whatever is powering it, and the cooling ability.

Or how 'bout yer clutch? Think it's just - ya know, all good? Think your clutch releases the fan at the same RPM every time? Heh heh.

Hmmm, how about that 5.0? When was that clutch supposed to disengage, and ...Oh yeah, what's the shift RPM of one of those things again?

Kinda blows mar3s theory right out of the water, eh?

Oh but wait, boys n' girls; Y'all getta a knock, too.

Noone here in all there 'so ****** scientific wisdom' wanted to talk about a dyno test with two identical engines running side by side, only with a temperature difference of, oh gueeze I dunno, 10*? Ya know, just to see what the difference in HP would be. And it took quite a while before WhackyRotary finally threw in the ole' "belt slipage' trump card. Nothing about heat effecting the electric motor output? Other accessories drawing amperage? Does the electric fan get spun faster by the incoming air at hi speed enough to actually create electricity and introduce it back into the system? Gueeze, what the hell's wrong with you guys?
THINK!

Everybody wanted to hang mar3, but none of you morons could tie the nuse! Nobody could entertain for just one minute that there might be something, anything to gain by an electric fan.


Lemme ask ya, WhackyRotary...Ya think a G-Tech is a good idea?...Ya know - In theory 'n all. So just how much more reliable is a dynomometer? So to say so much more would also be to say the G-Tech "toy" could'nt possibly give consistant results?
Do you have a G-tech?

How about this, folks...**** your dynos! Everybody acts like a dyno sheet is the end-all for any bitch session. Well it's not, folks, because you'll never convince me that after the first run when the oil got thinner, there was'nt just enough of a frictional difference in the moving parts of either the car OR the dynomoeter to thoroughly **** UP the readings!
And what exactly is "thoroughly fucked up"? I dunno. How about SilverRockets 1 HP that he can supposedly feel in his ***?


RxCetra - Do you really mean that **** about theorys and science? Christ, don't you ever ask the question, "Why?"?
How can I expect to believe you know about the science of carburetion when you scoff at the idea of using a scientific approach?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by RXcetera


...must be why this "22 years of experience" gearhead was pming little old me for advice at one point .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God that was the STUPIDEST ******* thing you could've said. Anybody who reads this post will never PM you for carb advice again for fear that you'll throw it in their face later on.

eh, but hey, who cares, right? You did'nt really wanna help anyone out anyways, didja?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SilverRocket


I know what a 1-2hp gain feels like. It feels like not much at all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aww C'mon! That's gotta be the stupidest thing I've read so far this week. You mean to tell me that your lil' ***-o-meter can register such slight changes as 2HP?!?!

So I take it the poor ole' ***-o-meter must just go nutz with the weather change, huh? You carry that thing around with ya?


C'mon, girls get with it! You wanna come up with real - I mean REAL facts for Rx-7 enthusiasts, or not?
Or do you all just wanna be 'right'?

Oh yeah, Crankit, I was just messin witcha!

 

Talk about opening a can of worms.... So, even if I do the dyno thing, you're not going to be even somewhat swayed by the results? Hmph...I might as well throw away the special mechanical fan with the 20 fan blades bent at 90 degrees, then....hehehehehe...

 

Haha... funny, but you missed the point. The point was, "it feels like not much at all." As in, nothing. No difference. That's what I meant, but I guess I didn't quite articulate it clearly enough. So here ya go: an electric fan, for reasons explained over the course of the thread, may well free up 1-2 hp or so over the stock clutch fan setup. However, the ***-o-meter, ie. actual performance when driving on the road, registers no discernable gain. So ironically, you managed to infer exactly the opposite of what I meant when you interpreted my post.

Betcha wish you read what I wrote just a wee bit slower eh? Nice try though.

Sterling,

You're still missing the point of what Rxcetera and I are saying. And that is... talking about aerodynamics and understanding the subtleties of electric fan dynamics is all fine and good, and might be real interesting... BUT.... it isn't required to answer the original question that this whole thread centers around. The question is... "Will the purchase and installation of an electric fan provide a noticeable horsepower benefit?" The answer, my scientific friend, is a resounding"no." We don't need any theory to explain this; it isn't necessary. Why? Because we've observed time and time again that on the road, to our ***-o-meters and the timing devices at the drag strip, street racing with a benchmark vehicle, where it really matters, this modification on a first generation RX-7 is not a noticeable difference from the stock fan.

See, you're trying to answer a question that wasn't posed in the first place, and that's not what I'm talking about. I've got no problem with that, just don't go telling me my arguments are flawed because they aren't concerned with subject matter you're interested in. I didn't need that subject matter to counter Mar's assertions to my satisfaction. If you still disagree with me, go outside right now, pull your fan off and go for a drive. I absolutely guarantee that your observations will parallel my own.

I'm not sure that you guys are remembering a 10hp difference is quite significant; Mar3 still hasn't explained to me how he thinks he feels 10hp more as a result of his fan. He's doing worse ***-dynoing than I am lol.

So anyways Sterling, nice try, but not so effective this time around

 

Naw. I was playing on the idea that everything can be argued. The results of any testing can always be thrown out the window by some arguement, beit a dyno or a G-Tech, or a "Yeah I seen it wit my own two eyes, I did I did!".
You could print out a dyno sheet right here before and after for any given mod, and people will find something wrong with it.
Fact is, I do believe (somewhat) what I wrote about dyno runs. It's almost impossible to recreate the exact same set of circumstances for a test over and over. However what is concidered "appreciable", or obvious differences due to a modification or change will ceratinly show themselves.
These differences...What is "appreciable" or obvious, is still subject to difference of opinion though.

My whole post was a joke about being "all Sterling" about things. But it was also to poke fun at everybody for arguing over what seems to be such a relatively insignificant gain or loss in power, that the only things that can even percieve it are G-Techs, Dynos, and SilverRockets ***!

Edit:
Just read SilverRockets responce.
Hell, boys, It's not me neck deep in **** here!
Are'ntcha at least gonna bitch at me for even getting involved in the first place?!
I mean I really could give a **** about the fan thing anyway. The stocker is ugly and loud, and it's for those reasons that I'll someday replace it with an electric one.
But I doubt any "appreciable" power gain is to be had. But does anyone know what the CFM for the stocker at "peak" RPM (before it stops being driven, I mean)?
I mwean noone is even trying to compare them just for the sake of which is a better fan!

That helps everyone out about as much as me makin fun of yer delicate and sensitive ***-o-meter!
You see? I won't be convinced about any of this **** for either side until you all start throwing cold hard, real numbers at me!

 

I think its a fun toy...and since its a toy it is designed to give you a rough idea what your doring. No I don't own one, but i borrowed one to see what its like. Those old comericals that show "professionals testing the accuracy of the G-Tech, now test with the G-Tech". Well, I'm going to say, no one selling a product is going to tell you its a perfect accurate product.




LOL! I like it someone is reading my stuff. Did anyone read my post on spinning the fan/fan clutch on a electric motor with adjustable rpm to measure current draw to calculate the amp draw then calculate the wattage then finally the hp draw! This would solve this silly thread.








And by the way, can we all make up and hug now!!!

 

Arguement using Scientific Method:

Observation: It's dark.

Known data: It's dark inside whales.

Conclusion: I must be inside a whale.

 

Ahhhh.... well then. I agree with everything you just said, especially the last part. It certainly is an insignificant gain/loss in power, which is my whole point

 

Nice fallacy. However, I wrote the LSAT last month and I'm real sick of seeing this kind of thing

Which is a better fan in terms of cooling? That's been covered a bunch of times already in other threads. People have different opinions.... what else is new? Haha.

Cold hard, real numbers? But I thought those could be effectively refuted too? What's the use... I've pretty much said all I got to say about this one.

Oh, and the only reason I pulled a Mar3 on ya is because you called my post the stupidest thing you read all week

 

the wiring is CAKE. Don't let the wiring hold you back. Take maybe an hour and you're done, maybe even less time. Also opens up the engine bay a little bit, less crowded.

 

Barwick.... what? If you're gonna say something out of the blue, at least insult someone or otherwise cause some ****

 

Really!! I started laughing when I ran into his blurb from the edges of insanity! It's like he read the first line of the post and replied to that, the lazy bum....