cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I've got a basic marine/auto generic Jacobs that is headed for the scrap pile.

Appreciate the offer on the Weber. I've got 12a streetport, racing header with wide open exhaust. Running a Weber 48 DCO s/p. RIght now I'm running 190 main, 210 air bleeder, F2 emulsion tube and 65-? idle jet. Seems a little rich. But I have no idea. The previous owner was running some weird stuff. Thanks.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

here it is. I noticed that I'm going to have to change the ends of my plugwires. the coil is a HEI style top so the regular ends don't fit on it. now if i can only find my boxes of car stuff. I had bought MSD customizeable wires and now i need to chance the ends and I can't fing the box they were in. I can't find any of my car stuff all my detailing stuff its all goin. Teaches me not to go and join the army and think my stuff will be safe at my own moms house. I'm also missing a polo suit and my back pack. I'm guessing whoever ripped me off took the backpack and stuffed it with my $h!+

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Holey **** theis is awesome i never thought an ignition could make such a difference. I'd personally like to thank Jeff20b for the advice on the accel coil and my getting the MSD cause it matched. Well right now it sits in the drive way jimmed togater. nothing is mounted its just jimmied to work and if it didn't i wan going to ook the old way back up now i know i don't have to do that at all. i started it and on half a crank it was running. Its amazing. i've got a 45dcoe with 40mm choke and most people tell me the chokes are too big cause if i rev it up and blipthe throittle there is the typical side draft hesitation. when i put the chokes on it got worse. well today there is none this is fu(king aazing i cand waitto make it perminant and go put her on the road. Hell yes!!! Oh and as far as hooking this thing up it doesn't matter where the orange and black from the msd go it worksa the same both ways.... So everyone with a msd directfire, must and i mean must go and get this coil its amazing, Forget that stock fc leading coil. Aftermarket is allways better.... I'll post pics when i get her firmly mointed

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Major congrats man!! You've done a pretty good job at convincing me to get an Accel or MSD coil for my 6AL.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

yea man I'm pretty stoked. I put my slicks on the car and went for a ride. It was nice and smooth. Now i really need to get some bigger jets. Expecially after what I have planned this winter. Wow i just saw my last post now and it looks like I was drunk typing it, I guess I was a little excited don't you. lolololol. I swear I'm not retarded like the guy who posted above... lol I look like an ***...lol

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Ah, don't worry about it. I sucked at typing back in '97 or whenever the 'Save the Seven' campaign started. I had shoddy sentence structure and horribly mispelled words in my post there. You'll improve if you work at it.

I've noticed something odd since getting on the internet. A majority of internet users couldn't use apostrophies correctly to save their lives. It's a strange phenomenon that I've noticed effects more UK users than most other groups. I think only about 3% of the users here know how to use them properly. Heh, even peejay screws up sometimes.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Well now we're off topic, but it's my thread so I can do what ever I want. Yea, I noticed the same thing. I guess it's because most users are students and they feel as if the internet is a lower level of intelligence or something. Like some times when I'm I'm like, "Fu(k grammer tht know what I mean." Its pretty funny really. So what do you think we should call this Ignition? I'm thinking just for hummors sake the Multipule Spark Discharge Dual Ignition Source Leading Igniter Direct Firing Ignition System. a.k.a. MSDDISLIDFS. Well It's true... lol

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

DIS does stand for Dual Ignition Source, right?

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Eep! I don't like that acronym at all. The reason I came up with the acronym DLIDFIS was to be as descriptive as I could without using too many letters. Even though it's only seven letters, many people still screw it up. When people can't get it right, it makes online and forum searches nearly impossible. I figured seven letters = RX-7 = seven digits in a telephone number. I thought it would be easy for people to pick up on it. Of course I'm so close to the subject matter that it's hard for me to see it from another point of view.

DIS = distributorless ignition system

What you've got there is an MSDDFIS or an MSD Direct Fire Ignition System that just happens to have a DIS coil instead of two seperate coils. MSDDFIS or MSD-DFIS has been the accepted acronym for a few years now. You're welcome to add DIS on the end if you want, but it'll look weird and be pretty long.

If I go ahead and use my 2nd gen leading coil with my MSD, I suppose I could call it MSD-2GC which is MSD 2nd Gen Coil. It's short and sweet, yet this is the first time any of us have ever seen the letters in that particular arrangement, and even though it slightly resembles the now well known 2GCDFIS, it's new and will take some getting used to.

I could never condone 2GLC because I have a GLC and its stock coil is a single Hanshin with a big ignitor in a sheet metal box mounted to it. Not very attractive or desirable on a rotary. It's best to leave the L out as everybody knows when upgrading the leading ignition on a rotary, you typically don't use the trailing coils from a 2nd gen, and if you did use them, the setup would be experimental and therefore rare and therefore there is no need for an acronym.

Something like MSD-2GC is kind of useable but MSD-DISC (MSD Distributorless Ignition System Coil) is strange. Again, MSDDFIS seems to be descriptive enough so far. Saying "em es dee disk" to myself sounds like I'm talking about an MSD computer program on a diskette or something.

Hmm, what do you think about MSD-DIS or MSDDIS? We could used it as our new acronym to better describe a DIS coil hooked to an MSD box. I've got to admit that it's starting to grow on me. It's only six letters and it's hooked to a 6A or 6AL. Should a dash or hyphen (whichever you prefer as I just use the standard one on my 101 US keyboard setup, although I could use a – or — instead of the standard - if necessary) be used between MSD and DIS? Seeing two Ds together doesn't look as pleasing to the eye in text (lol, double Deez!). I think it needs a dash between them.

MSD-DIS What do you think?

Yes, I typed all that out just to try to come up with a decently descriptive acronym for the setup that you and RX-Midget have. It's also descriptive enough to cover those of us with a 2nd gen (leading) coil with our MSDs as well. Lastly, it helps to differentiate us from the old way of hooking an MSD to two coils since they (the users of this outdated system) cannot accurately use the acronym DIS and have it retain any sort of intelligeability without some creative letter juggling or really long acronyms, which defeats the point of using an acronym in the first place. I think MSD-DIS will be pretty wothwhile should we choose to accept it.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Works for me... lol Wow I'm cracking up over this subject. Although I'm pertty buzzed its still funny. Well MSD-DIS it is... I've got the First MSD-DIS FB RX-7 known. HAHAHA lol Iknew one day I'd do something special... Now I can die a happy man having a part in creating something that will help people, well rotorheads at least.
edit: Re-reading your post brings back memories. I used to call it the Dafidills ignition. lol

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

lols! Yeah, giving back to the rotary community, whether a big contribution or small, is a great feeling. Let us know how it runs and drives.

DAVID GRIMES

MUltipule Discharge Source Leading Igniter Direct Energy System

MUDSLIDE

j/k

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

DISSED - distributorless ignition system seperate electrical discharge.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

Whatever you guys want to call it is ok with me. MSD-DIS works. Post up some pics of the final install when you can. I will be doing this soon. We could call it the Hyper4-MSDDIS.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

When I eventually get around to updating my webpage, I'll probably make a new section for MSD-DIS. Of course it has to pass my personal testing before I can recommend it to others. I have confidence that it will. Yeah, after I get my test vehicle running again (carb issues etc sorted), I'll be in a position to try the MSD in it again.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

I'll get pics up soon the only camera I have acces to right now is my cell phone, so they will kinda suck for now... Got a new problem now I started her up today and noticed she was smoking. And this car engine has never smoked before. Hope fully it just needs an oil change. It's bluish smoke I hope its not another oil seal. I'm still not working and the last thing i need is another blown engine... Well right now I run Amsoil 10-30 full synthetic. People here say not to use synthetic cause it will soften the oil seals is this true? Or is the oil just to thin for the weather now, 50s. Gawd I can't afford another engine. What am I to do? Does anyone know anything that might help out the oil seals?

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Thats all I got for now. Those are from my cell phone tomarrow I'll get some day light pics.

CarlRx7

for the guys that are shooting in the dark about rejetting there carbs go here:
http://www.mazspeed.com/carburetorfacts.htm

Carl.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Dude? This is a thread about ignitions.

CarlRx7

dude sorry. kamehameha. your dead. my thread now. >=]

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

Yea right, Big bang your dead. vegita'd kick goku's **** any day. He just got too soft... And it's Goku's show.

John Senini

I sent that question to the MSD guys. they Responded:
Dear Sir:

Your question is a very interesting one and often asked.

A dual tower coil, such as for a distributor-less application, will fire both coil towers at the same time. The coil is designed to fire as the computer tells it to and the cylinder firing is set up so that as one cylinder is firing on the compression stroke, the other cylinder is at the exhaust stroke and also receives a ‘firing’ from the coil. The energy transferred to the respective cylinders is not split evenly. Electricity will only use the energy necessary to get the job done. Since the cylinder at the compression stroke will require more energy to actually ‘light’ the air/fuel mixture as the cylinder at the exhaust stroke has, at this point, less compression. Therefore, that cylinder also gets a spark from the coil, just not as intense.

Remember that electricity is a lazy fellow and voltage ratings are not as important a figure as the ‘peak current’ developed by the coil. Current is the ‘work horse’ in any application. That is what is actually going to do the work to light your air/fuel mixture. Voltage is the force used to ‘push’ that energy to get the work done. A coil will only use the voltage necessary to get the job done. A coil rated at 45,000 volts is nice to have, however, if the voltage requirements are only 30,000, that is all the coil will use. In higher compression engines, voltage output is a figure that has to be looked at more closely. In a ‘stock’ application, a coil having such a high voltage rating m9ght not be necessary.

Now then, let’s examine using two coils and a single channel MSD Ignition for say a Mazda rotary application. One coil is a ‘leading coil’ and the other is a ‘trailing coil’. Just as the compression and exhaust firings were explained previously, the plug requiring the most energy will use that energy from the leading coil and the other plugs that fire requiring less energy, will only use the energy required.

Mr BiG G

hey hyper4mance...whats the name of the msd coil and/or the part number?

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...h.asp&N=400122

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

In other words, a DIS coil designed with CDI in mind, such as this one is an excellent choice on a rotary with an MSD 6A or 6AL.

DAVID GRIMES

Not sure I believe that scenario. Seems *** backward to the "path of least resistence" train of thought. Am I to believe the ignitor, coil and plug have a precognition or mechanofeedback about what the need is of them all those times a second ? Gimme a break or gimme a lesson. One or the other !

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The way I learned it, which also follows the results I've had while bench testing really long spark gaps, is that the spark will only draw as much current as is necessary to jump the gap. If it only takes 25,000 volts to jump a certain distance, then that's all that is needed. That's why the DIS coil setup works on a rotary if hooked to both leading plugs. The plug firing into the fresh mixture requires more power, so that's what it gets... in theory, anyway.

John Senini

Have any of you guys worked out the wiring of the two tower coil???
thanks
JLS

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

There's just two wires on the low tension side. It's as easy as wiring up a single output coil. The high tension side goes directly to both leading plugs.

Is that what you wanted to know? Or were you trying to ask a specific question about how to mate one of those coils to a specific ignition source?

mwatson184

I'm not disagreeing, but that does seem a little backwards to me. Electricity should take the path of least resistance (or at least the greater portion of what is available). If you have a short wired in parallel with a resistor, the resistor will receive no current because the short has 0 resistance. Since the resistance is greater w/ the fresh mixture, will it not receive less current (i.e. colder spark)? Perhaps I am not understanding something.

Marques

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

I wonder if a 6a can fire two of those GM coils.


-billy

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

mwatson184, I tested a 2nd gen leading coil hooked to my MSD 6AL and I pulled one of the spark plugs a fair distance from the boot and got a really long spark. Guess what the other plug was doing? It continued to spark happily even though most of the current was going to the first plug. This follows the theory described above.

bwaits, I'm sure it would work, but again you're asking the MSD's CDI output to be shared between two coils. It's not that good to do from a parallel wiring standpoint. Also, what type of engine were you going to run it on?

mwatson184

Well if it works thats great, it just seems a little counterintuitive to me. I'll trust your study/theory before mine, I just wish i could make sense of why it actually works that way.

John Senini

MSD coil looks like it uses an adapter, does the accel use the same or just wire directly???
JLS

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Not one in mind. Just thinking. We used to fire trailing with the leading many moons back. If the box would fire two of those coils you could direct fire all the plugs with one box, 2 coils and one magnetic pickup - say... off a trigger wheel.

-bill

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

As far as hook up I just plugged in the wires into the bottom of the coil it has two female spades. They donot have any identifying markes such as positive and negitve so I hooked it up both ways and it ran the same both ways. I did notice though that the side of the coil with the negitive side of the MSD hooked won't give a signal on my timing light.

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

MSD Tech said a 6A would not fire two of those coils. I guess you would need two boxes to do what I was thinking.

-billy

mwatson184

Get a timing light that clips onto the plug wire (inductive) and you won't have a problem. They are cheap.

Marques

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

is there any other knid? Of course thats the one I have. and it only reads signal off of one wire...

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)