Maguire

iTrader: (1)

Im trying to decide what engine setup i want to go with. Up until recently i was pretty sure i want a big street ported 13b 4p. Its simple, reliable, and should yeild about 200rwhp. But, now im thinking TII cause im afraid i wont be satisfied with the performance. And once its built.. its built. There's no going back.

So, im asking for a ride, prove me wrong. Save me money show me the N/A power. So, does anyone in a nearby citiy have the above mentioned setup?

Half bridge is also a possibility.

drunkclever

I am in the same situation.. sort of .. wit my taxes coming in.. I hae to decide on what engine to "flow" with I hav ridding in just about all except the 13B 4-port. reguardless of where I go.. My '85 gs has a good 12A.. it started like nothing today.. one key turn and one press of the gas pedal.

I am in the process of dismantaling the 13B-se engine that I had bought a year ago. I talk to a machnic and he said he would be willing to "work something out" I offerd him the 2 engines and the tranny.. for doing the t2 swap i told him.. its a win win situation.

all he sad was hummm that swap IS easy. I am still not certain.. so let me know which engine draws the least amount unwanted attention

Latin270

Just go with the 4 port 13b. I'm set to build one this spring. I have a friend who has a 13b 4 port in his rx3 and it's just awsome! For the $ you'll save on not going turbo, you'll still get a blast out of it!

clean85owner

My motor should be getting rebuilt rather soon, but it will be a while until it will be broken in.

I'd love to give you a ride, had my car still been up and running.

BTW, the motor lasted 10 years and 110,000+ miles. Don't think it won't last a while. Many of those years were spent autocrossing, as well.


FWIW, Nick at RR&R built my motor to the specs of roughly 215 flywheel hp. This is a mild streetport with a Mikuni 44PPH and some other goodies, the motor can easily make more power. Reliability was the key, though. It had to last as a daily driver, and it did very well.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Build it N/A, when you realize it's still slow, throw a turbo on it.

clean85owner

Dude, a 200 wheel hp first gen will get you sub-14 second quarter mile times with good tires. How is that slow? Especially when it is an excellent daily driver that will last much longer than the typical boosted rotary.

Plus, another good thing about going N/A is the ability to have a not-perfect tune and not worry about chuckin' seals.

Latin270

Your right! Thats why I'm building mine n/a also.....

Maguire

iTrader: (1)

Did you use -se/12a parts, 74-78, or FC components? My plan was 12a plates, -SE housings, and s5 rotors. DHLA 48 w/ lakecities intake. and RB exhuast of course.

If you dont mind, let me know if you get your engine rebuilt soon. It will probably be a while before i decide anything.

Either way im buliding an engine, so its a matter of what rotors to use.


Well, after riding in/driving my Dad's 220rwhp turbo miata for a couple years it doesnt seem that fast anymore. (he also got bit by the bug and is now working on a 350hp monster)

drunkclever

14.. who would want to go 14..?

I want to go atleast low 12's. Thats my target. I figure I get a t2.. and then next year get bigger injectors and a rebuild with some stronger seals..and port it. Yeah, its not cost effective. I got a family so I am not planing to run it all the time.. hell once a month might be all I will be able to devote.

Then I thought if I go with the 13B 4_port.. Then I will have money for other things like body work, rims and tires.. and soo on. If I take an put the 12A and 13B together.. and get a nice holly or summ'tin carb.. with very nice exhaust.. I better see better than 14's.. isn't that a stock number anyway?

old_skool

hell yea. im running low 13s in my b-port 13b without the nitrous. its fun. and i have hard compound tires!

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

The rotors don't dictate if you can turbo or not. I would use 13B plates/housings, rotors of your choice.

I really don't consider 14 second car very quick, my pickup truck can do that. 13's getting better, but 12's is where I really start to consider a car fast.

Midwest 7's

iTrader: (4)

use the wrap around intake, not the lake cities. better performance, cooler air.

Maguire

iTrader: (1)

9.0 or 9.7 is a pretty big difference, ide say.

I like the lake cities manifold. Better highend from shorter runners. I doubt there is much difference in the temperture of the air.

drunkclever

what intake is that? got a link or something?

85rotarypower

Go with the big streetport 13B and put some 4.77:1 gears in the rear end. It will go 13's easy, but it will probably feel faster. I have a little program called CarTest that simulates what certain changes will do on a car. Takes into account something like 50 or 60 variables to get the most accurate measurment possible. Seems pretty accurate, as I tested it with my know figures of my T-Bird and compared to the figures I got in the program.

Turns out, my t-bird does just shy of 16 seconds in the quarter, which is what its supposed to do. That about 0.4g's of acceleration force through first. Now, a stock 1st gen will do about 0.4g's of force through 1st, yet isn't as fast in the quarter, and this is due to gearing. A 2500lb 1st gen with 200hp and 4.77 gears will pull almost 0.85g's through 1st, hold 0.5g's through 2nd, and pull off the quarter in about 14 sec flat. 0-60 is about 5.8 seconds. Thats twice the acceleration force from stock, so you can see why it would seem faster.

clean85owner

And that's exactly where we differ. My car is a daily driver. It has to run all day, everyday, and my set up did it very, very well for 10 years. High 13s aren't quick enough for a daily driver?

Personally, I like knowing the fact that because I only have ~200hp, I can run a clutch that won't absolutely destroy my leg in stop and go traffic. I like knowing that becuase I don't have a turbo running at 8 million degrees, my car won't over heat in traffic. I like knowing that I can ride my clutch some in stop and go traffic and not worry about being the cause of the traffic jam.

It's all what your intentions are. If I wanted a car to go really fast, surely, I wouldn't be running N/A; and naturally, if I wanted to make 100,000 trouble free miles on an engine, I wouldn't have a t-60 strapped to the side.

It's all in what you have your RX-7 for. You have a car that is fast as ****, but is hardly used. I have a car that quick, and will last as long as a rotary should.

BTW, stock numbers are in the 17s, with the -SE maybe getting into the 16s. They weren't made to be quarter mile queens. I truly think of them as the Japanese itteration of a classic British sports car.

Powerful? No.
Handling? Pretty damn good for the times.
Fun? You couldn't have more fun with a gun, cocaine, and a Russian *****.

Not too mention, I like to keep it old school, and it really doesn't get much more old school that a streetported 13B 4 port with a Mikuni side draft carb.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

It is, but that doesn't mean you can't turbo it. I have a bridgeport with 9.7 rotors and a GT42R. It's all about the tuning and the setup.

I have a MASSIVE turbo by all standards, and I can sit in rush hour traffic for days without overheating. I've got a clutchnet sprung copper disc with a heavy pressure plate, and again, I can sit in rush hour for hours without an issue. I've put well over 80k miles on my engine pushing over 400 to the wheels. That whole paragraph reeks of inexperience with anything you talked about. A properly set up and tuned turbo has no reasons why it can't be a reliable daily driver.

MattG

iTrader: (2)

oh ****, it's like a bad desease has spread from the second to the first gen section!!!!

The person knows who they are!

clean85owner

I will admit that my statement was based in comparison to friends' turbo hondas and things of the sort, but I don't think you have any grounds to say that I have no experience. If I had to stuck on a bridge in rush hour traffic, I'd much rather have to deal with a moderate street/strip clutch rather than a more race oriented, heavy-assed clutch.

As far as staying cool in traffic, how much money have you spent strictly on cooling? Other than swapping out the beehive for a stock oil cooler, my system is still stock. Can you run your 400hp car on a stock cooling system? I wouldn't imagine it would last very long.

Like I said, it's all about what you want. You want 400hp, and you think it is perfectly streetable, have a ball; but don't tell me that I am wrong because I think a simpler route is better.

steve84GS TII

Cooling a turbo engine only becomes an issue when under power.A 3-row 79-82 short radiator or a 2-row 83-85 tall radiator w/air-oil cooler will do it fine up to about 300HP.It mainly depends on your driving/thrashing habits.Idling in traffic and tootling around town has no bearing.Without boost,the engine will not generate anymore heat than a regular rotary.The surface area of a turbo hotside is about the same as an N/A engine,and if your not boosting....your basically driving an N/A engine.

I had a stock port 13B 4 port with a Yaw Nikki and all the bells and whistles,and it was fun.Id guestimate about 170HP with a nice usable torque curve.If you floored it,she'd put you in the seat much better than the 12A,but still pulled hard to redline.I would have stuck with that setup had I not wanted to advance to EFI....and if you go EFI,then turbocharging becomes a much more easy reality.

The first time I drove my S4 TII swap,I was ASTOUNDED by the difference in power.Even though the S4 only makes 10-20 more HP than my old 13B N/A setup,there is gobs more torque,and it covers a huge RPM range making the car much more brutal when accelerating.Also,when turbocharged you rarely run out of pulling power if you need it.The old N/A 13B would still require a downshift occasionally to get things moving,or to make it up that grade.A turbo gives you thrust in any gear,just by pressing down a little more on the go pedal.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

FC oil cooler, FC radiator, and an efan (which cools even less than the stock fan). Anyway, you can get away with using upgraded disc's and less 'harsh' pressure plates and have a clutch pedal feel VERY similar to stock. I would also like to point out, it's possible to have a streetable car that's very similar to stock feel that makes considerably more power (and is turbo).

The idea of streetable is an opinion, but the list of reasons you provided were facts (such as overheating, stiff pedals, slipping the clutch, etc)

Don't be goin and gettin jealous again

drunkclever

so basically if I want something with less hassel, and cheaper.. go with the 13B 4-port.

If I want something thats going to respond to my foot mashing, give me more of a hassel, cost more.. go with the t2.

I can toss a t2 into my bitch for a lil over 1650.
I can make and toss a 13B 4-port for how much? (i got the 12A and the 13B allready)


Another thing to worry about is noise level of your exhaust??

13B100shoot

what is the 1/4 mile time of a 1st GEN rx7 with a stock 13B Turbo

Maguire

iTrader: (1)

This thread is starting to stray a little bit. *sigh* I know what 200hp feels like in a 2400lb car. Its the torque curve im curious about.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

i've got about 1k in my rebuild doing it myself. but it was already ported tho.