KYB adjustable shocks
 

TL;DR; Has anyone used these for an FB or SA?

It is well known that Koni makes adjustable front strut inserts that fit our cars which are speced as MR2 rear inserts. The same is true for the rear shocks, we can get KONI adjustable rear shocks for a Mustang fox body chassis and they fit our cars. Using these same criteria I went looking for adjustable KYB and found these for the front:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/k...yota/model/mr2

https://static.summitracing.com/glob...5015_hx_ml.jpg

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/k...yota/model/mr2

https://static.summitracing.com/glob...5016_so_ml.jpg

The difference appears to be that the model ending in 16 includes a knob.

I found KYBs for the rears as well:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/k.../model/mustang

https://static.summitracing.com/glob...3020_ci_ml.jpg

These shocks are about 1/2 the price of KONIs and adjustable. I expect the rears will install with no issues or very easy to resolve issues. The fronts I'm not so sure of. I have a number of questions about fitment to the SA front strut:

1. Are they long enough or do I need a spacer at the bottom?
Considering these are for the MR2 rear and assuming they are like the KONIs, I may to need fab a spacer.
2. How will the gland nut work?
It may work but not sure.
3. Will it fit an SA or FB strut top or do I need do something there?
I think it fits FB strut tops but may need a spacer (from T3 maybe?).
4. Would I get the adjustable knob (kyb-765016) or the one without?
Sounds like the knob would work on the fronts.

I got some of my info out of this thread about the KONIs: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-gene...0/#post9570918

Anyone used these and have any input? I may contact Summit to ask for some measurements to figure this out. Unfortunately I have no extra SA struts to do measurements on for the strut tube or gland nuts.

The total cost is less than $400.00 from Summit, so the price is right.

If I get these I'll post up about how they fit, what I needed to fab up, and how they work.

Looking at rockauto, the mr2 rear struts are model 765016 and model 765015 is the front struts. RA price is 82 versus 95 on summit. Looks like the rear mustang shocks are cheaper on RA as well 71 vs. 83 on summit. The price differences are pretty trivial given that RA charges ~$10.00 for shipping and summit shipping is free. About 15.00 cheaper from RA.

the AGX line it popular with the FC crowd, they are good shocks, my friend has a set from ~2001 and even after seeing a couple seasons of track time they are still ok

the Mr2 rears are the same sizes as the FB, but valved more stiffly, because its mid engine.

most of the toyotas of that vintage use the same diameter strut as the SA/FB but they are mostly longer

Good info, thanks.

I already have FB strut tops in my parts stash. Tempted to pull the trigger. The old KYB gas a adjust on there can't handle the cut RB springs at all and the front left has started squeaking now. Due for some new shocks for sure.

I have a pair of the AGX shocks on the back of a Fox mustang. They are nice and easy to adjust. Not as numb as the Koni Sport shocks

My KYB struts lasted about 6 months with RB springs. I am using MR2 Yellow Koni struts (1 Gen MR2 rear strut) and fox body Koni oranges (non-adjustable); been running for nearly 1.5 years and little over 10K. No issues and love them.

I am currently running AGX rear shocks on my 83. I like them, I like how the damping adjuster is located in the bottom of the shock. They work good, better than the tokico blues I had before.

I also just finished building some custom coilovers using the T3 weld on kit, T3 adjustable camber plates and koni mr2 adjustable strut. I am going to post in detail how I built the coilovers next week.

Was this the ones RB sells or the AGX shocks I'm looking at?

KONIs are definitely worth the premium price. I can't speak for the AGX but I've been on regular KYBs and not been impressed. I currently track and daily Tokico HP (blue) with RB springs and front sway bar and thought it was a nice setup...that is until I put KONI yellows on my wife's MK1a MR2 that has stock sway bars. Oh boy, do those feel nice. At full soft they'd be fine on really bad city streets. At half way they were sporty but firm for spirited back road driving. At 3/4 they were getting about as stiff as my Tokicos but did better soaking up smaller bumps. I think we will go a little past 3/4 when we get it on the track next season, and we will need to see whether it needs a front sway bar as well...probably not, since she's still learning.

Anyway, I wish I had known about the KONI MR2/RX7 part interchange before I put the Tokicos in. For my next upgrade, I'm thinking about going all in with coilovers...not for the height adjustment, but for the camber plate alignment flexibility and a stiffer spring rate. If I could get camber plates for the KONIs that bolted on, I suppose I could live with the RB springs...but I haven't found any available that work with stock shocks.

I had tried the standard KYB set not the AGX set.

Nice find!! I would think the AGX would work decent with lowering springs

This is a great find - matter of fact, good thread in general. I got vexed after Tokico stopped making their's, Thanks, T.G.

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Yeah, thats kind of what led me down this path. Getting ready to pull the trigger on these before they disappear. I also want to document exactly what is needed to make these work. So stay tuned.

I am pretty sure the inserts that fit FB struts were from 1985-86 mr2. I would get some measurements before pulling the trigger.

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...front-1058310/

Tommy

Researching that now. I have some threads out on the mr2oc site to get some clarity on the differences. They in fact have different part numbers as well for MK1 vs. MK2 (MR2 speak for series 1 vs series 2 in our world). I did a lot of searching and it appears the rear strut tube dimensions are the same for both and its just a difference in the top hats maybe. I don't know what the exact differences are yet. Will report back when I get a firm answer.

I sourced my Koni yellows (MR2 rear struts) from Race Consulting Agency, IIRC the guy I talked to was named Max. They knew the correct part number to order. Their number is 888-981-7221. Main reason I went with Koni was that I figured that they would be available in the future, especially the rear shocks; mean they made quite a few fox bodied Mustangs.

It makes sense. The Mk2 (SW2x) chassis shared little, if anything with the Mk1 (AW11). The MR2 had quite a bit of independent pieces, but it also shared parts from cars of their respective eras. The Mk1 shared a lot with the Corolla and the Mk2 shared a lot with the Celica and Camry.

The only clue I found was that in Mid 1986 the gland nut changed from a 42mm to a 48mm. I have no idea how this correlates to the diameter of the insert... but 42mm is the approx. ID of the FB strut base. We will keep our fingers crossed.

Tommy

Yep, I saw that in the specs for the MK2 vs MK1 inserts. Wasn't sure if the actual insert is now bigger or just the gland nut.Still chasing details.

the BZ1086 Tokico we used to run is the REAR of the 85-86 Mr2. its the same sized insert, same shock shaft. it MAY be different where the strut top bearing sits, we all ran camber plates. if you had SA strut tops you could just drill it out to match the new shock/strut

J9, I'm sure thats the case. My hunt is to see if the mk2 mr2 rear insert will work as well. I did determine that the shaft is 14x1.5, same as the mk1. I just need to get the mk2 insert diameter and length. Once I have that its all good.

So my question is : what would be better for spirited driving. not track days but just touring back roads.

I want the adjustables to tune the suspension to the springs I have on it. My RB springs each have one coil chopped off which I don't really think changed the rate much but my old KYB G2 inserts and shocks can't keep up anymore. I also want to tune the ride for around town versus hard mtn runs.

It depends on how sensitive you are to the ride and what you want it to feel like and how much control you want. The absolute best would be the KONI adjustable, then KONI non-adjustables, then KYB AGX adjustables, KYB G2 or whatever they are called, your generic Monroe etc from the muffler shops. I didn't include the high end custom KONIs or other race shocks which can run into the $1,500.00 and up range in price. Shocks are a very interesting subject and its crazy out there.

To answer your question, the KYB non-adjustables would probably work fine for a stock car on stock springs. Tokiko in the past had the blues which were very good as well.

I'd just stick with the RB springs and non adjustible KYBs or, if you can find them, Tokico Blues and spend your money on new bushings all around (which means new control rods for the rear). Stay clear of the poly bushing kits. If you are installing grippy tires (summer performance or better, ie not all seasons) and you want a little less body roll, consider the front RB sway bar, but that makes the car borderline harsh on city streets.

Have an email out to KYB to get the outside diameter of the AGX 765016 strut insert.

We know from the thread below that the KYB Excel and Tokico strut inserts are 38.25 mm in diameter and insert body length is 377 mm for the SA and 354 mm for the FB.

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati.../#post10794968

Whats the ID of the SA strut tube (I'll settle for FB since I know they are the same)? I know the OD is ~46mm ( I think, if anyone can verify thats great).

^^ You can always extend a FB strut tube to match the lenght of SA tube using any of the above strut cartridges and an aluminum spacer similar to Respeed. This set-up worked well for me on my RX-3's and RX-4 (requires a camber plate as FB has a different spindle angle than an old school RX).

I will let you know tonight, I have my 85 spindles off the car right now

Got the reply from KYB about the 765016 insert sizes: 43.6mm OD and 360mm long. It could be close but since its shorter I may be able to drop them in with some spacer at the bottom and use the stock gland nut to hold the insert in if it can slide into the tube. Just need that ID from freeskier.

Bad news!! From what I can tell the ID is about 40-42mm max!!

Thanks, I'll see if I can get some more measurements as well. How did you do the measurement?

May have to just go with Konis all around then.

I used a set of calipers, the problem is that there is a lip that top seal for the wet strut that protrudes in. The OD of the strut casing is 45mm and the wall thickness is like 2.8mm so the max diameter you could fit is probably 39mm. I know that people have swapped larger diameter tubing on to fit supra shocks and what not...

That seals it then. I'm not modifying the struts if I can help it. Sounds like KONI is the best option for the fronts. I was very hopeful that the KYB AGX could work <sigh>.

So looks like KONIs on the front and AGX on the rear. The AGX is externally adjustable without removing the shock where as the KONI has to be pulled out to adjust it from what I have read. If thats not true I could get KONI all around otherwise.

at least it is documented!! I think the AGX will work fine in the rear. Do they not make an early (AW11) AGX anymore?

No, only the excel shows for the MK1a model years (84 - 85).

Good to know. Are they easy to adjust on the car? Do you have raise to get to the adjuster?

Thanks but no thanks, no way I'm cutting up my perfect interior for this. I will go with the AGX in the rear that I can adjust from the bottom.
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Those look like Tokico adjusters. The AGX shocks I have on the back my FOX Mustang have a rebound adjuster on the side of the shock by the lower mount. My understanding is the the AGX line of shocks were inherited by KYB when they bought another shock company (GAB??). Also they may have changed designs over time. But I am pretty sure a new set would have the adjuster on the bottom of the shock.

Koni Single adjustable Yellows (Sports) for Fox/SN95 adjust on top. The double adjustable Sports have adjusters on top (rebound) and a second adjuster on the bottom (compression). Koni rear Reds that are adjustable had to be unbolted at the bottom, compressed fully to engage the adjuster and then twisted to change rebound settings. I had them on an SVO Mustang and they were a PITA to deal with. Don't buy them if you run across them.

There are other options for Fox/SN95 mustangs from Viking and QA1 that put the adjuster knobs on the bottom above the lower mount. These can be had in Single and Double adjustable models.

Also Tokico D-Spec Fox/SN95 rear shocks are still available and they are being clearance priced now.

Check out www.lmr.com and www.americanmuscle.com

A note on the single adjustable shocks. These allow you to make rebound adjustments however you can expect this to also affect compression valving. This is very noticeable on the Koni sports shocks. I have them on my RX7 race car and a S550 Mustang and it can be hard to find the sweet spot on the shocks. Koni acknowledges this on the web site. Even Tokicos were found to have compression changes as rebound was adjusted. I would expect the same experience with all single adjustable shocks.

I did this comparison drawing some years back when SA struts were still available; maybe it will help?

Thanks Glenn. I started with that thread when I went to find the shocks. Very useful dimensioning on the existing inserts.

So now more than one shock is shot (squeaky) and I can feel them not doing their job. Just did 300 mile round trip this past week and the noise is irritating plus the wheels on certain pavement are not very settled. So going to get the koni mr2 fronts and agx rears as discussed and swap them in when I get timd. Probably won't happen until March as the koni lead time on the order is a few weeks .

It may handle a little weird. I have Konis on the front of my car and they have very stiff initial damping, which makes them ride very harsh, even when adjusted full soft.

I used them to replace a pair of blown AGXs, which have a much more progressive damping curve instead of a trapdoor one. I have a new pair of AGXs on the shelf waiting to go in...

The nice (?) thing about AGX is that it appears that KYB made one strut and one shock for everything, RX-7? 240SX? Subaru Impreza? Same internals, just different ears. I think they were figuring that you could just adjust it to your liking. As a consequence, th adjustments are very coarse. There is a noticable difference between the 4 different front settings, and a more subtle difference between the 8 rear settings (although the range is still very wide). A lot of "adjustables" have barely any range at all.

My current commuter car has driver adjustable struts so I play with the buttons all the time. It feels like it's fastest and most responsive with the dampers set to full-SOFT, because the tires don't stutter over bumps. The chassis stays stable instead of bobbing, and there's no sense in having smooth driver inputs if the suspension isn't smooth to the tires in the first place.

As usual, good info Peejay. I may have some tuning work to do once I get in place. Hopefully they will be a lot better than whats on there now.