Ilum

So I am getting a reasonable tax return this year and I want to put it into my car. I am debating between a few things. Two of them are the Rack & Pinion steering kit and the big brake kit from Re-Speed. I am looking for opinions from other people, especially people who have done the install and are using either or both products. Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this. Unfortunately my refund is only going to be enough for one kit, so getting both is out of the question for now.

As a side note, I also need to refile tax returns for previous years because I missed a deduction. I am hoping this may allow me to get the other kit. I am calling the IRS office on Tuesday so I guess I will find out soon. Anyway please let me know what you guys think of of the two upgrade kits. Thanks!

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You need to be able to stop before you can go, get the brake kit.

B6T

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but you need to be able to turn before you can stop!

I don't know what model you have, but I've never had a problem with the brakes on my GSL-SE, but the steering is absolute garbage. The steering is far worse on these cars then the brakes are, so my vote goes for the rack and pinion steering setup.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

My point is no matter how many mods one does, start with the brakes. Performance mods leads to performance driving, which can soon push the brakes past thier limits. No matter how fast one can go or turn, if one can't stop, then it's all over quickly.

Percentage

iTrader: (7)

That would be my thoughts exactly.

Ilum

My car is a 85 GSL-SE. So far it sound like people are saying both are great but I should start with the brakes. Does any one have both of these mods? I would be curious to know what people thought after using them. Any other thoughts...?

K-Tune

iTrader: (26)

i was always ok with the steering in my FBs, never saw a need to upgrade.

the brakes i did tend to max out, especially with the 13BT under the hood.

Anthrax Mike

Though I have neither of these particular items, I do have an opinion on this. While I've never had to deal with 'wonder steer' as some other owners have, I still agree that the steering is the one glaring fault of our cars. I've owned a MR2 with a manual rack, and it does make the on-center feel of the RX seem pretty rediculous. So I'd pesonally start there.

Trochoid makes alot of sense, as usual, but I guess you'd have to ask if upgrading the brakes with a higher quality pad or rotor wouldn't that provide sufficient improvement until you can afford the BB kit. I mean say you buy the R&P, and some hawk pads, save up some money until the brakes wear out, then slurge on the BB kit then.

But thats just an opinion. Either way I'll envy your purchase.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Let's try a different approach to the question and answer. I'm not saying mine is the right answer in all cases.

1. How bad is the steering now? Does it need any parts replaced, is the rack so worn that it's beyond it's adjustment limits>

2. How are the brakes now? What repairs/renewing has been done, is there more needed. Can you lock the tires now during stops. Do you plan on going with wider tires, i.e., 7"+ rims?

The answer isn't as simple as one might first think. If you can lock the tires up now and the brakes are in good condition, steering may be a better choice at this time. If the present steering system needs most of the parts replaced due to wear and wonder steer, upgrade that. If the steering is in good shape now, go for the BB kit.

I have the BB kit on the front of the widebody, waiting to fund the rear kit along with the Moser axles. I'm also running 9" wide wheels up front. When I had the 7" wide wheels, I could almost lock the front tires with the stock brakes after renewing the entire brake system. The stock system however was not up to any type of performance driving with wider tire footprint.

Personally, if you plan on upgrading both systems, save up, buy both and do all of the work at the same time.

Ilum

Trochoid: very valid questions so I'll take a moment to consider this. My car is in pretty good shape. I put on slotted rotors, braided steel brake line, new calipers and new pads in four years ago. When I had my motor rebuilt and put in by Rob at Pineapple Racing he tightened up the steering for me but there is a minor amount of play still. Not bad but still noticeable to me. He also replaced he idler arm at the same time. I haven't tried to see if the tires would lock up since right now I am using studded tires. I would be more than happy to test that in April when I get normal tires back on the car but I am pretty sure they would. I guess when it comes down to it both systems are in good shape.

So here is how my car is currently setup: Powerslot front and rear brake rotors, ST suspension springs, Illumina 5-way adjustable front and rears, Pineapple Racing streetported 13B, Pineapple Racing Miata gear converted transmission, a really nice clutch kit from Pineapple Racing but I have no idea who makes it, Konig 17x7 front and rear wheels, a Bonez straight pipe instead of the cats, Apexi (sp?) N1 muffler, Pineapple Racing alternator relocation kit with an FC alternator, 2nd gen coil mod, and 2nd gen fuse box (anyone need some fusiable links?).

I would like to get different rims this spring, so I plan on selling the Konigs wheels and tires. Obviously the BB kit would make a big difference in what rims I would buy, so I may wait for the new rims until after I get the BB kit. I am currently waiting on ST swaybars to arrive and I will be putting in energy suspension bushings at the same time.

As far as driving style goes, I have an aggressive streak, but this is my daily driver. We have a lot of mountain roads and Deer -- and the occasional Elk -- around where I live in central Oregon so control and handling are my first priority. This is why I am looking at the two upgrades that I am. I would like to learn to drift my car one of these days, but I just haven't had time yet to do this.

In the future I plan on getting an airdam and maybe some side skirts although I haven't decided about those yet. I am still trying to decide between the Mariah Mode 4 airdam and the Raceon Hiflex type 111. After the airdam will be a new paint job. In the next couple years I would like to try and shoehorn a NA converted 20B into my car, so I will definitely want both upgrades by then. As it is I am just looking at minor stuff up until then such as new wheels, a new cat ( I may be relocating one of these days to a place where they actually do require smog checks...), SS braided oil cooler lines, and general maintenance.

Ilum

TTT... Anyone have any thoughts on this? I read over the tread Skidtron has running but he hasn't finished installing the his steering upgrade kit yet. I really appreciate everyone's input, it has given me alot to think about. I would still love to get feed back from any one else using either of these kits.

Sgt Fox

iTrader: (3)

If I were you, I'd ensure my stock brake setup was working perfectly and then go buy the steering kit. I have a steering kit sitting in my garage and it looks amazing.

Ilum

What I was just thinking about was waiting if necessary and getting the steering kit and the front BB kit and just skipping the rear BB kit. I was looking at the rims I want and they are offered in the two different bolt patterns with the same offset so the wheels would match all around. What I am thinking is that if I have oversized front brakes and the stock rear disk then that should still give me better braking performance. Or am I missing something?

I have thought about it all weekend and have pretty much concluded that the brakes ought to be in great shape given that I had replaced nearly all of it 4 years ago. When I get my return if I am going to spend the money it would make sense to go with the steering first. If I have the money to get the fron BB kit at the same time then great; that way I can see improvement in both areas of my car this year. I think that would be pretty sweet as long as doing only the front brakes doesn't cause some other kind of problem.

Ilum

Has any one tried to use the Respeed big brake kit on the front only? Or would anyone know if this would cause a problem/ would work?

glewsRx

iTrader: (1)

there you go

Ilum

thanks glewsRx, I don't know how I could have missed that but it does explicitly answer my question. Trochoid makes sense, I have decided I am going to take his advice and wait to do both at the same time. Thanks all for the contributions to this thread. This thread can be closed now.

Kentetsu

My personal opinion...

Since adding new calipers and rotors/pads, I have no issues at all with the stock brakes. I don't have huge wheels/tires either though. But even for autocross I've never been lacking for brakes. I might consider upgrading them if I ever step up to a turbo and some huge rubber, but otherwise I'm happy.

On the other hand, I'd trade one of my children for that rack and pinion setup. The steering is my biggest complaint with this car. The thought of a quicker ratio and rack/pinion makes me drool.

I say if you are satisfied with your current brakes, then go for the steering setup.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The sad part is that right after I installed the front BB kit, along with a bunch of other front suspension work this summer, I blew a rear caliper that was only 2-1/2 years old. I have yet to fix that and get the wb taken down for an alignment. Now I'm debating on letting it sit until I can do the rear BB kit, Moser axles. I need 2-5 bolt centers for the SSRs since the rears are in the SE pattern and the fronts have the FC pattern.

I don't recommend doing the front BB kit only. You might get by with it for a while, but I wouldn't run it that way for long.

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Adoption paperwork is in the mail


Many have run this way for years now. Some run 4 lug to 5 lug adapters on the rear so they matched. Others run the kit with the FC 4 lug hubs and SE rear axles.

-billy

Ilum

Hey Billy, I've got a couple kids too, does that mean I can trade one in for the steering rack?

I am glad that you jumped in and contributed. I now know that I have multiple options if I get impatient and need to order sooner than later even if it means doing the breaks piecemeal.

I don't know anything about the lug adapters that you mentioned. Are these really worth it? Who makes good quality ones if I wanted to go that route?

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Not sure of the best place, Never checked into it. You can through in GSL-SE axles depending on your year model. That could give you 4x4.5 all the way around.

-billy

Ilum

Billy, it's an 85 SE, what would I look for?

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Ok, you already have 4x4.5" rear bolt pattern. You can run the FC 4 lug hubs with our kit to retain the bolt pattern.

You will simply need to re-drill the FC 5 lug rotors with the 4 lug pattern. This will give you the TII size rotors and 4 piston calipers in front with the largest FB rear brakes.

Will be a good setup and you would not need the rear kit or adapters.

-billy

kenn_chan

Ilum,

I ordered one of the original BB kits from billy when they first came out. I sold it later when I replaced my entire front crossmember with a TII crossmember and engine assembly.

so my thoughts are this, a properly maintained recirculating ball steering system, and a rack an pinion are almost identical with the exception of that slight dead spot in the middle, and with proper maintenance can be dealt with.

the brakes however are an eventual must do because as you upgrade suspension, tires and wheels, and eventually...engine your brakes need to be able to keep up without repeated changes in design.

The BWaits kit is well sorted out, and with the addition of new rotors, and high performance pads will put you at the top of the game ~ short of a full on custom brembo/wilwood/endless kit (think 3~4k for them) and will not need upgrading for any reasonable reason for the life of the car, especially if you get the rear BB kit with it (I also bought and am still using)

The brakes are the more important of the two, the steering you will be constantly reminded of and as a result will be more vigiliant in the judicious use of speed, the brakes on the other hand you will not notice until you need them and its too late.

With the wider tires, (wide body kit et al) much higher HP engine (I am now slightly north of 400 RWHP) The TII brake system with good pads is still good to go, and would be my first choice.

cheers and good luck.

Kenn

Ilum

Billy would I be able to use the rear BB kit with the stock GSL-SE axles and keep my existing bolt pattern?