vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

I've read up alot on this. Rotarys respond really well to pure hydrogen fuel. I think I'll give this little piggy back hydrogen booster system a try. Here are the plans to build this small hydrogen generator can be done for under 50 bucks... Seems the only draw back is the electordes wear out fairly quickly. I think larger electrodes would solve this problem....

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/hydroboost.htm

Similar units cost up to 900 bucks for a complete kit. Pretty interesting stuff!

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

Ive heard alot about propane also.

jonjonwells

uhhhh, that would be a big NO on hydrogen. It works, and really well at that, but it will eventually eat into the metal of the engine. Take a few minutes to read about hydrogen use and the problems associated with it at www.unitednuclear.com. This R&D company has been working on it for years and still have not got it down. They are saying that it requires a lining on the interior walls of the combustion champer. Ultimately it is up to you, but I wouldn't want to chance ruining my engine.

Shyshorty15

The idea is a great one. However the design is flawed quite a bit. Mythbusters did a bust on this one device and it looks like the guy has added a pump to improve on his design. Mythbusters replicated his design and it failed. the reason that it failed is that there is no storage tank for the hydrogen/oxygen to gather(which by the way would be extreemly danerous to just mount anywhere in the car) And on the other end the desgin of the electrodes dont produce enough hydrogen fast enough to replenish the tank effecently. Im not saying it is a bad idea because its not just do some more homework on it.

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

Yep, and cooking grease, filterd, can run in a diseal engine (no mods strictly stock).


Why are they using metal if its eating through? why not use cast Iron, Or other types. Even copper is avaible. mmm, abunch of other stuff too.

jonjonwells

From what I understand, It is the reaction of the detonating hydrogen that eats the metal. In it's inert state, anything will hold it with no drawbacks. A ceramic (if I remeber right) coated wall is needed for combustion.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Uhhhh... I think U might be the one that needs to do more research!

I read the hydrogen fuel system link you posted and found nothing about hydrogen eating into the metal of the engine? The only thing I found was this...

The reason they were having problems is because they were running pure hydrogen. Standard Fuel has lubricants in it so running engines for a long period of time and denying them that lubricant is going to cause problems. But the system I am talking about adding is added on top of your regular fuel. Just like in the bold print above.

So as far as I can see there is no problem doing it... I don't want to hurt my engine either. Please prove me wrong if U can find something. I'm not one to let pride get in the way. I'll be the first to back down if someone finds a reason this will hurt an engine. Common sense tells me it can't. Hydrogen isn't corrosive in anyway. It's by product after burning is water and a small amount of nitrogen. So if anything, as it's burning, it is steam cleaning the engine. So you get the anti detonation properties of water injeection as well.

The amount produced by this little generator isn't enough to hurt anything. This isn't a system to run the car on hydrogen alone, just gives a boost of hydrogen mixed with your regular fuel to give you a more complete/effecient burn and alot cooler burning engine.

It's a "win win" situation...

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Do the same thing but with the Oxygen produced instead of the Hydrogen and you'll have NOS without the N!

Though that's been tried in the past (pure oxygen injection).. it oxidizes aluminum REAL quick... and causes other problems... but if you were looking for performince with *less* gas mileage, that would be a way to do it. A crazy way since I doubt you can get more power than you put into it (you're using the alternator to power the electrolysis.. more drain on alt = more drag on pulleys = more hp loss for a TINY amount of oxygen/hydrogen.. whatever you wanna burn).

Dunno if you could get *any* benefit from them really.

Jon

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Your looking at it from a performance view. Adding oxygen will lean out the mixture radically. This would require more fuel to be added to compensate and not melt things. Which would make more power. Buy I already have a race car. I like useing a pretty much stock 12a as my daily I think they are fun to drive. I think they would be alot more fun to drive if I got 30+mpg and I believe it is possible...

If you read the the links I posted, or did a search on it on the internet, you would see that many people have benefited from it. They were only useing about 15amps to power the unit I am talking about building. A 1985 AMC Jeep was netting 60-70 mpg highway and 40-50 mpg city. Thats enough of a gain for me to go ahead and try it. I like doing projects like this though. I'm fully prepared to have it not work at all... But thats a risk I'm willing to take for the small amount of money it will cost to manufacture.

I just had my appendix removed so I'm down for a few weeks but I'll keep doing research and build one shortly. I'll post the results. Best I can manage with the AC on in city and partial highway driving is 17ish mpg. I bet I'd see better gains on a piston engine but time will tell.

OneRotor

iTrader: (3)

a cooler burning engine? try a hotter burning engine. Hydrogen burns at something along the lines of 1500F. This is what is keeping companies from running hydrogen in a piston engine, as it requires extremely expensive materials for the valves, pistons, cylinder walls, etc. etc. This is why ceramic coating is popular for coating the engines, because it is a very good insulator. The main problem you will run into is the energy density of Hydrogen. Check out the link below, it will explain in paragraph two that to achieve the same amount of power as gasoline, you would have to burn four times more hydrogen.

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/p.../hydrogen.html

Mazda showed off the RX-8H (or something like that) at the NAIAS in Detroit a couple of years back. Guess what the almighty RENESIS was making for power with hydrogen? Something along the lines of 38hp.

The next problem you're going to run into is, from the posts above (i didn't read the link) that you're going to be running an electrolosys system off of your alternator. bad idea, as stated above. You will sap more power off of your engine than you will gain, plus you will have all of the extra weight of the tank, water, and electrodes. If you really want to explore something like this, here is what I suggest you do:

1) Pull your head out of your ***
2) Think it through
3) Throw out anything you know about anything
4) Follow the steps below

(I went through this as an experiment in high school)

1)Get yourself an Aluminum tank welded up
2)Have it sealed by a reputable shop
3) cut holes just large enough for your electrodes and an insulator (for between the electrodes and tank) to pass into the tank
4) Use Stainless Steel Threaded rod as your electrodes (as big in diameter as you can find)
-I tried multiple types of electrodes, from mild to hardened steel, zinc plated steel, copper, aluminum, and stainless. Stainless is the only one that didn't get eaten by the 600+amps and 12V DC that I was running through it. I could produce enough hydrogen to keep a sustainable flame going on the top of the water.
5)Be ready for a shitload of heat. In my experiments I initally used just a plastic bucket, and I'd melt it within 5 minutes of doing the electrolysis.
6) figure out a way to keep your tank cool so your water doesn't boil off
7) have a large pickup welded onto your tank to run a big line to your carb
8)boost prep your carb
9)run your line from your carb to your tank
10) run compressed air through your system to check for leaks
11) once you kill all of the leaks, check for leaks again, and again, and again
12) Wire up 8 of the biggest, baddest 12V batterys you can find (OPTIMA Red or Yellow, whichever has more CCA), two sets of 4 in series (+_+_+_+_), and the two sets of 4 parallel with eachother (++,--). This will give you 24V and ~4000 amps.
13)Get yourself a HUGE breaker or switch to turn this SOB on and off.
14) Fill the tank with distilled water and salt, so you don't get deposits, yet the electricity can still flow through the water
15) Wire in the GM 105amp alternator
16) flip the switch and pray
17) if all goes well, leave it sitting for 15 or so minutes to build up a little bit of pressure in the system.
18) check for leaks again
19) put on your nomex gear and start her up

good luck, and don't kill yourself

EDIT: I just saw that you want to increase your gas mileage. good luck. The one factor that helps or hurts your gas mileage over all else is the weight of your vehicle. This is why the 8.0L V10 in the Viper gets 23mpg on the highway cruising at ~70, while the same (more or less) engine gets ~6 (my dad had one for a test vehicle, he designs steering racks, pumps, columns, etc. for Visteon, so we have first hand expierence with this engine and the gas mileage it gets). The old viper weighed in at ~3300 pounds, where that truck weighed in at close to 10,000. All other factors aside, i'd say three times the weight and 1/4 the gas mileage has the most to do with the weight. You're looking at adding all of this stuff to increase your gas mileage? you'll likley decrease it by adding so much weight (carrying around 20 gallons of water @8 pounds/gallon = 160 pounds)

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad U played with hydrogen in highschool. The thing is, this has already been done by many people with great success. So trying to disprove is is ignorant. Unless you yourself have build the above mentioned kit and tried it.

You are posting an arguement without even reading the links posted, talk about having your head up your ***! How are you supose to argue a point without reading the information? You have no idea what your talking about? U admitted yourself U didn't even read the links. If you haven't read the links why are you speaking?

I'll be happy to shoot down each of your statements in this post....here we go!

It's great that to achieve the same amount of power as gasoline, you would have to burn four times more hydrogen. I completly agree withthat statement. But if you would read my post I am not trying to subistute hydrogen for gas. Only spray in a very tiny amount to help combustion.

Also your "cooler burning engine? try a hotter burning engine. Hydrogen burns at something along the lines of 1500F" Line is bogus in my application.

I'm not running the car on hydrogen! Adding hydrogen to my fuel mixture will cause alot of the unburnt waste fuel that normally is just spit out the tail pipes to burn. Also because the by-product of hydrogen is water it will casue a misting effect that will cool the combustion down thus making the car run cooler and extending it's engine life.

1. Useing the alternator with a voltage regulator inline won't hurt a damn thing. As I said it only takes 15 amps of power. I have a GM 140 amp alternator so I think I can spare a few amps.

2. the tank is only 1 litre. Space is no problem I have relocated my battery to the rear already.

3. An alum tank would be a horrible idea. Alum would oxidize & corrode like mad. I will be useing a PVC container.

4. You didn't have your water mixture set right if you were having heat issues. You were running way to much salt. I won't be running salt either it will corrode the electrodes to quickly.

If you increase the amount of acid in the water slightly, you end up allowing a good amount of current to flow from one electrode to another.

If you add to much acid (salt, whatever) This results in an internal heating of the unit; expansion of the contents; and possible explosion of the unit. To much current is traveling between the two electordes (shorting out)

The more amps you use the less acid or conductive material you need in the water. With 15 amps of power about 3 table spoons of acid per litre is all that is needed. If I were to crank amperate up to 50 3 drops of acid would be all that is necessary. The electorlysis should resemble an alka seltzer tab.

5. I'll be running a small vac line T'd into my PCV valve to suck the gas into the engine. Only a very tiny amount of hydrogen gas is needed to promote a better flame front and enable better anti detonation qualitys. Timing will need to be advance several degrees as well. I'm going to try 5 degrees to start with.


6. the amount of gas you are talking about producing is insane. I am not trying to run the car on hydrogen. I won't need a boost prep'd carbor anything like it. Of course you woudl know that if you read my post.

Lets move on to your weight theory...

First off sure I'll agree weight has a huge part in things. But explain why my 2400 lb 1.1 litre rx-7 only gets 17 mpg? The motor burns fuel inefficiently. Thats all there is to it.

If i were running the new honda motor in my car I would be getting 40mpg and making more power. Even with the larger heavier engine, because the honda burns fuel more efficiently.


With all that said...

I don't take anything personal on the internet. Stop posting on something you have no idea about! R E A D the links before opening your mouth. You made some good points, but your points aren't even relevant to what I'm trying to do/build. I can take constructive criticism, but at least read the information first and then shoot down my ideas.

Bring it on, I'd like to see you disprove me.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Right, but in the mythbusters episode they were trying to run the car on hydrogen only. The big point they made was they couldn't even start the car on the amount of the hydrogen there generator produced.... WELL NO DUH!

If they woud have just run the car with that setup they had for a decent amount of miles it might have showed some mileage increases. But I did see that episode and they didn't try that.

79rx_7

How much hydrogen is this actually going to be making? It seems like a very small amount.
they never realy said how much hydrogen they were producing to get the 40+ mpg.

vxturboxv

iTrader: (2)

Honestly I dont know. It's a very small amount.... If that size unit worked for them producing that much gas. I should be able to copy there plans and produce the same results reguardless of how much it produces...

inuissus_cendi

or some housings rebuilt with a ceramic coating.

and about propane... its in wide use over in Europe I know for sure, maybe other places in the world too. I lived in Warsaw and alot of taxis there use it as a supplement/mileage booster. Some people install it on their private cars too but I think its only cheaper if you do ALOT of driving like taxis. And thats in Europe where $5 a gallon is nothing.

Buffumguy1

If you end up doing this, I live in Wichita and would love to see it.
BTW, I saw you the other day at 13th & McLean in the 2nd gen.

79rx_7

Im all for projects like this, put one together and let us know if it works, I would love to see the results of this.