Got an Electric Fan Installed
10-02-07, 07:34 PM
#26
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Looks good. I too use no thermostat to control my e-fan and never had a problem. However I normally let the car run for about 5 mins before I flip the switch on.
10-05-07, 08:51 PM
#27
Hunting Skylines
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By having it on all the time you're missing out on the full performance gain as you're putting a constant load on the engine via the alternator so it's not much different to having a mechanical fan.
On the other hand, electric fans draw a **** load of current on startup so having it cycle on and off may not be that much better from an electrical standpoint.
I'd still go with the thermostat though.
On the other hand, electric fans draw a **** load of current on startup so having it cycle on and off may not be that much better from an electrical standpoint.
I'd still go with the thermostat though.
10-05-07, 09:33 PM
#28
I agree on it cycling on and off being bad. But a mechanical fan is in no way comparable to an electric fan, no matter how you hook it up. I don't drive it in the rain (no wipers using current), I never use the radio (speakers/HU drawing current) and hardly ever drive it at night (headlamps). Thermostat or no thermostat, the one major thing that decides on how hot your engine runs is:
Bear with me here... the thermostat in the water housing! Lets review what the thermostat does, looking at Wikipedia. "A Thermostat is a device for regulating the temperature of a system so that the system's temperature is maintained near a desired set point temperature. The thermostat does this by controlling the flow of heat energy into or out of the system. That is, the thermostat switches heating or cooling devices on or off as needed to maintain the correct temperature."
Lets take a look at the stock set up VS an E-Fan setup:
A thermostat is closed when the temperature is lower than needed. I believe I run 180* in mine. What this means, is the thermostat acts like a clog in the system, keeping all coolant where it is at with very little to no movement. So, the coolant in the radiator is ambient of the outside temperature, and the coolant in the engine is ambient to the temperature of the engine. As the engine heats up, the coolant begins to heat up. NOTE: At this time, regardless of having a stock clutch setup or a non-thermostat E-Fan, BOTH are spinning
Differences so far: None
Now, the engine is getting warm. Nearing the thermostat opening temperature of 180* and it starts to "unclog". How hot or how cold the coolant is varies how much or how little it opens, respectively. Now, the engine is at 180*, and the thermostat is open. Coolant is now running through the engine and into the radiator to be cooled off, and returning again.
Differences so far: None
Now, what is the difference, you ask? Coolant temperature. With the E-Fan pulling more outside air than the stock clutch fan, this lets the cooler air pass faster through the radiator and through the oil cooler than the stock setup.
Correct me where I am wrong here. Cooler = Better. Cooler air intake temperatures allows denser air, making more horsepower. This can be achieved by a Cold Air Intake, or having a Heat Shield. Cooler running temperatures I am sure will net me zero gain, but that is easier on the engine than running at a higher temp. I am aware that there is a certain safe temperature setting, as in too hot or too cold, but I do not fall in this territory of dangerously cold.
So now what is happening? The coolant temp is falling!
Cause: Lower coolant temperature
Effect: Thermostat starts to close.
Now, the thermostat is located in the top of the water pump, where the coolant goes INTO the engine. when this closes, the coolant gets harder to get into the engine, causing the coolant IN the engine to warm up. Now, I am sure you all are thinking of seeing the thermostat opening and closing, then opening, then closing, over and over. No, my coolant stays at a constant setting according to the dash, only lower than with the clutch fan.
Not really trying to get off on a rant here, but it seems like the people who say my set-up is wrong are coming off like it is going to cause the engine to blow. I am running the same basic principal you have, but my coolant and OIL temperatures are lower, than going out and buying more doo-hickeys to keep it at a stock temperature, turning off and on. Now I ask you this, what hurts the engine worse? Running a little cooler? Or having the fan turn off and on against the alternator? The fan takes more amps to start than to run, IIRC.
Bear with me here... the thermostat in the water housing! Lets review what the thermostat does, looking at Wikipedia. "A Thermostat is a device for regulating the temperature of a system so that the system's temperature is maintained near a desired set point temperature. The thermostat does this by controlling the flow of heat energy into or out of the system. That is, the thermostat switches heating or cooling devices on or off as needed to maintain the correct temperature."
Lets take a look at the stock set up VS an E-Fan setup:
A thermostat is closed when the temperature is lower than needed. I believe I run 180* in mine. What this means, is the thermostat acts like a clog in the system, keeping all coolant where it is at with very little to no movement. So, the coolant in the radiator is ambient of the outside temperature, and the coolant in the engine is ambient to the temperature of the engine. As the engine heats up, the coolant begins to heat up. NOTE: At this time, regardless of having a stock clutch setup or a non-thermostat E-Fan, BOTH are spinning
Differences so far: None
Now, the engine is getting warm. Nearing the thermostat opening temperature of 180* and it starts to "unclog". How hot or how cold the coolant is varies how much or how little it opens, respectively. Now, the engine is at 180*, and the thermostat is open. Coolant is now running through the engine and into the radiator to be cooled off, and returning again.
Differences so far: None
Now, what is the difference, you ask? Coolant temperature. With the E-Fan pulling more outside air than the stock clutch fan, this lets the cooler air pass faster through the radiator and through the oil cooler than the stock setup.
Correct me where I am wrong here. Cooler = Better. Cooler air intake temperatures allows denser air, making more horsepower. This can be achieved by a Cold Air Intake, or having a Heat Shield. Cooler running temperatures I am sure will net me zero gain, but that is easier on the engine than running at a higher temp. I am aware that there is a certain safe temperature setting, as in too hot or too cold, but I do not fall in this territory of dangerously cold.
So now what is happening? The coolant temp is falling!
Cause: Lower coolant temperature
Effect: Thermostat starts to close.
Now, the thermostat is located in the top of the water pump, where the coolant goes INTO the engine. when this closes, the coolant gets harder to get into the engine, causing the coolant IN the engine to warm up. Now, I am sure you all are thinking of seeing the thermostat opening and closing, then opening, then closing, over and over. No, my coolant stays at a constant setting according to the dash, only lower than with the clutch fan.
Not really trying to get off on a rant here, but it seems like the people who say my set-up is wrong are coming off like it is going to cause the engine to blow. I am running the same basic principal you have, but my coolant and OIL temperatures are lower, than going out and buying more doo-hickeys to keep it at a stock temperature, turning off and on. Now I ask you this, what hurts the engine worse? Running a little cooler? Or having the fan turn off and on against the alternator? The fan takes more amps to start than to run, IIRC.
10-05-07, 09:47 PM
#29
Hunting Skylines
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The stock mechanical fan has a viscous coupling so it's not running at full power all the time. Yours on the other hand is. 
You also ignored the part about the gains from having no extra load on the engine when a thermo controlled electric is off.
You also ignored the part about the gains from having no extra load on the engine when a thermo controlled electric is off.
10-05-07, 10:02 PM
#30
Ok.......lets put this one to bed. The e-fan by far is the better setup regardless if it runs all the time or not. I would rather have it running all the time and not have to worry about some pos thermo coupler from Auto Zoo failing and causing it to run hot, or OOOPs I forgot to turn the switch on. I swear. You try to make things idiot proof, and they will come out with a better idiot.
10-05-07, 10:54 PM
#31
Fwiw, the coolant exits the engine through the top radiator hose and enters through the bottom one. Check your FSM.
It has been shown through scientific testing that a pistone engine wears 28 times more on cold start ups than it does at operating temps. Newer engines now days run at a higher operating temp than the older 180* versions, for better emissions and fuel mileage.
Also keep in mind that the stock Nikkis have coolant passages in the intake manifold to warm the fuel/air mix to prevent icing. If you want you fuel/aif mix to run cooler, install an aftermarket wrap around intake. The one on my Mikuni can get ice cold stting at idle on 90* days.
Are you being stubborn and not listening, yes. You're missing some of the basic principles on how/why engines operate at a designed temperature and the reasons they do.
It has been shown through scientific testing that a pistone engine wears 28 times more on cold start ups than it does at operating temps. Newer engines now days run at a higher operating temp than the older 180* versions, for better emissions and fuel mileage.
Also keep in mind that the stock Nikkis have coolant passages in the intake manifold to warm the fuel/air mix to prevent icing. If you want you fuel/aif mix to run cooler, install an aftermarket wrap around intake. The one on my Mikuni can get ice cold stting at idle on 90* days.
Are you being stubborn and not listening, yes. You're missing some of the basic principles on how/why engines operate at a designed temperature and the reasons they do.
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