Getting rid of the rear sway bar
09-02-09, 11:42 AM
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Getting rid of the rear sway bar
It seems that the reason my car's handling which has been somewhat funky lately is because the bushings in my rear sway bar are shot and need replacing. However, it seems that a lot of people just ditch the rear sway bar all together. I've been researching this a bit to get an idea if people were happy or displeased with the outcome after removing but thought I'd just put it into a thread anyways. I really don't mind going either route, just want to know what others have done and how your outcome was in the end. To remove or not to remove guys? 
09-02-09, 12:57 PM
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try it, takes about 5 minutes to pull it off
09-02-09, 01:28 PM
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I've been running mine without for a while to try it out. I have otherwise stock suspension. It feels... odd. There's a lot more body roll with it off. I seem to have a little more traction in the corners, but it doesn't inspire much confidence. I'm going to put it back on for now. Maybe with some stiffer rear springs it would be better, I don't know.
09-02-09, 01:32 PM
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It really depends on what else you have for suspension, specifically how much body roll will you experience. The greater the amount of body roll, the greater the suspension movement, which means more chance of binding. Binding produces the infamous "snap oversteer". Removing the rear swaybar can sometimes reduce the chances of snap oversteer, but at the cost of even greater body roll.
Once you upgrade the front swaybar, it is generally (in my opinion) a good idea to put at least a stock rear bar on the car. Even better, an upgraded rear bar. The goal should be (again, in my opinion) to eliminate as much body roll as you can. Once you reduce the amount of roll you are experiencing, then you have also reduced the amount of suspension movement in the rear of the car, which results in a reduction or elimination of snap oversteer.
Clear as mud?
.
Once you upgrade the front swaybar, it is generally (in my opinion) a good idea to put at least a stock rear bar on the car. Even better, an upgraded rear bar. The goal should be (again, in my opinion) to eliminate as much body roll as you can. Once you reduce the amount of roll you are experiencing, then you have also reduced the amount of suspension movement in the rear of the car, which results in a reduction or elimination of snap oversteer.
Clear as mud?
.
09-02-09, 01:48 PM
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It really depends on what else you have for suspension, specifically how much body roll will you experience. The greater the amount of body roll, the greater the suspension movement, which means more chance of binding. Binding produces the infamous "snap oversteer". Removing the rear swaybar can sometimes reduce the chances of snap oversteer, but at the cost of even greater body roll.
Once you upgrade the front swaybar, it is generally (in my opinion) a good idea to put at least a stock rear bar on the car. Even better, an upgraded rear bar. The goal should be (again, in my opinion) to eliminate as much body roll as you can. Once you reduce the amount of roll you are experiencing, then you have also reduced the amount of suspension movement in the rear of the car, which results in a reduction or elimination of snap oversteer.
Clear as mud?
.
Once you upgrade the front swaybar, it is generally (in my opinion) a good idea to put at least a stock rear bar on the car. Even better, an upgraded rear bar. The goal should be (again, in my opinion) to eliminate as much body roll as you can. Once you reduce the amount of roll you are experiencing, then you have also reduced the amount of suspension movement in the rear of the car, which results in a reduction or elimination of snap oversteer.
Clear as mud?
.
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09-02-09, 02:32 PM
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By the way, I like to keep the setup whole, and just take the brackets loose from the frame rail and axle. Leave the drop links whole so nothing gets lost, and it just takes a minute.
09-02-09, 03:10 PM
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Makes sense, right now as far as suspension goes i'm just running RB springs and tokico blues all around. Some people have said that after removing it, they can generally feel an improvement in handling around corners. In all honesty, I think the handling is fine with it on so I'd probably just end up replacing the bushings.
without the rear bar, it turns in slower, but it's also easier to drive.
with the bar, it turns in quicker, but its harder to drive, and it was thought that the bar CONTRIBUTES to the binding problem.
so try it, see what you think, there isnt really a wrong answer. its more what you like best.
09-02-09, 03:48 PM
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Kerebrus,
Are you wanting to change your setup because you've grown unhappy with the RB springs and Tokico shocks? I've strongly considered that setup for financial reasons, but I can't shake Kentetsu's and many others' recommendations for coilovers. I'm curious if you've "outgrown" your current setup and are actually looking for an easy change with the rear bar removal.
Are you wanting to change your setup because you've grown unhappy with the RB springs and Tokico shocks? I've strongly considered that setup for financial reasons, but I can't shake Kentetsu's and many others' recommendations for coilovers. I'm curious if you've "outgrown" your current setup and are actually looking for an easy change with the rear bar removal.
09-02-09, 05:23 PM
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Since you already have an aftermarket front bar, I would recommend keeping at least the stock rear bar, or a stronger one if you can get it. I ran my stock bar with the RB front bar without any issues back when I was using all RB springs and stuff.
09-02-09, 05:30 PM
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I'm going to do coilovers in the future but not anytime soon. I'm sort of pleased with the RB Springs/Tokico blues setup but not really. The ride functionality isn't as great as I'd want it to be, gets pretty bumpy in a lot of cases and not smooth. The drop is somewhat alright, that's the only thing I was really pleased with overall. But yea, like Kentetsu said I do have an aftermarket CP racing front bar so I should probably just keep the rear or upgrade.
09-02-09, 07:28 PM
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I've outgrown my RB setup. I've got the springs and sways front and rear, as well as Tokico Blues. I'm bored with it. Will be upgrading to RE-Speed after the engine rebuild. Unless your doing road course racing with the car you should just replace the bushings. A lot of road racers say it makes the car more stable in the corners without the bar, but they are also going very very fast through those corners.
09-02-09, 07:33 PM
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I've outgrown my RB setup. I've got the springs and sways front and rear, as well as Tokico Blues. I'm bored with it. Will be upgrading to RE-Speed after the engine rebuild. Unless your doing road course racing with the car you should just replace the bushings. A lot of road racers say it makes the car more stable in the corners without the bar, but they are also going very very fast through those corners.
09-03-09, 08:38 PM
#21
The rear bar contributes to the binding problem, but the added roll resistance requires a much much higher g turn to hit that infinit roll point or the bind point. Without the rear bar you will have more body roll, and the infinite roll point will be at a higher degree of body roll. Say 5* of body roll without the bar as opposed to only 4* with it. But the problem is that without the bar there is less roll resistance and the car will roll much easier to the infinate roll point.
Simple lesson. If you still have the watts, and 4 link and you drive fast keep it on. You will be able to carry much more speed through corners without hitting the bind point, but you will not be able to step on the gas as early on turn exit. With the bar removed entry speed must be greatly reduced in order to not reach the bind point, but you can get on the gas much earlier on exit. So it depends on how you like to drive, but if you like to drive fast you'll keep the bar on. The only way to know for sure is to try it both ways and see which way you are faster.
Simple lesson. If you still have the watts, and 4 link and you drive fast keep it on. You will be able to carry much more speed through corners without hitting the bind point, but you will not be able to step on the gas as early on turn exit. With the bar removed entry speed must be greatly reduced in order to not reach the bind point, but you can get on the gas much earlier on exit. So it depends on how you like to drive, but if you like to drive fast you'll keep the bar on. The only way to know for sure is to try it both ways and see which way you are faster.
09-11-09, 09:27 PM
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I have the Racing Beat springs and Tokico blues, and as Kerebrus, I'm not super happy with it anymore. It is a very rough ride sometimes. I am using the car for Autocross so I like the idea of being able to hit the gas earlier out of a turn like Hyper4mance2k explained. I might disconnect the rear sway this weekend and see what happens.
09-11-09, 11:41 PM
#24
on the gas earlier, but be prepaired to be heading into 45mph turns 10mph slower than you were before, well unless you like infinate roll points and snap oversteer. One other thing I forgot to mention was tire selection. If you're running cheap street tires, taking off the rear bar might make you think the car is faster. Without sticky race tires or R compounds you're not really pushing the suspension as youre first point of failure is usually your tires anyways...
09-12-09, 02:37 AM
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Install a lsd rear end and you can get on the power whenever you want in a corner.
Removing the rear bar helped a tiny bit back when I was on RB springs, but not enough to
justify the added body roll.
Removing the rear bar helped a tiny bit back when I was on RB springs, but not enough to
justify the added body roll.
