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Anyone here have experience with California STAR smog? Just looked more closely at my latest registration renewal form, and see I got tagged to get STAR smogged rather than regular smog. Quick Google says STAR smogging is more detailed than regular smogging so am concerned.
Car is almost entirely stock OEM with rats nest in place, but did make some small changes to fix a flooding issue. Really really REALLY dont want to mess around with the carb as its running perfectly and was a hell of a wrestling match to get it there!
- I added a fuel pressure regulator and gauge, attached to the firewall. Will be removing the gauge to make it less obvious, but do I need to risk removing the regulator too? Honestly think this will bring back the gremlins so very resistant to this. Anyone gone through STAR and have a feel for what you can get away with?
- I wedged open the carb air vent solenoid internally, when I was working on flooding. You cant see it from outside, and its wedged in the open (engine running) position. Will the STAR smog test detect that the vent does not close when engine is shut off? Again really dont want to take the carb apart to remove the wedge as car is running soooo well, and it was sooo hard to cure the flooding.
- What is the smog testing range for idle? I have it set a bit high right now at around 1100 rpm as made it easier to tell when the engine was about to flood. Searched and found someone quoting the Factory Service Manual recommending 750rpm, but would love to run it higher than that if it does not trigger smog problems.... just trying to keep the gremlins from getting back in.
- Any benefit to be had from temporarily uncoupling the OMP activating rod, and not adding premix to the tank prior to smog test? Logic says less oil in the combustion chamber means less pollution... but then again logic says don't own a rotary.
Thanks for any hints and tips California folks may have learned with the FBs and smog. I have a bad feeling about this test.
I just smogged mine at a star station earlier this year. Passed with nearly zero emissions!
The ones in the Bay area are quite sticklers for the visual inspection. They will crawl under your car with a flashlight and mirror to inspect the catalytic converters for the CARB EO numbers. I posted in another thread what numbers will be acceptable. I even asked the tech that these laws weren't in effect when the car was produced but they said it doesn't matter and there is no grandfather rules in place. So that's the reason why mine passed so clean was because I needed to install a primary cat. Before these past 6 years I've been passing the visual and sniffer with just one main cat but now it seems they're looking for at least two cats installed with numbers. I had to throw away a perfectly clean working bonez cat 6 years ago and now I had to buy a new cat to install.
They won't notice your valve modification but the idle speed will be too high. Have it floating around 750 to 800rpm and you'll be fine. Make sure your gas cap is good because they'll test that too for the evap test and pressurize the fuel system as well to check for leaks. As long as all your emissions are in place such as vacuum hoses and charcoal canister you'll be fine there.
Then they'll run your car on the Dyno for 15 and 25mph tests. This is where it sniffs your exhaust for HC, CO and, NOx. If you have good cats this should be a breeze. Hope that answers your questions.
Oh yeah it's also a pain to find smog techs that will actually take the time to smog these cars. They'd rather take obdii cars which just require a cable to be plugged in to the obd ii port and make the same amount of money in 5 minutes instead of the 25 to 30 minutes it takes for our cars doing it the old school way.
Oh yeah it's also a pain to find smog techs that will actually take the time to smog these cars. They'd rather take obdii cars which just require a cable to be plugged in to the obd ii port and make the same amount of money in 5 minutes instead of the 25 to 30 minutes it takes for our cars doing it the old school way.
i had a really hard time finding a shop too, i wrote my assembly person and said its time to call this one a victory and get rid of it. they wrote back and said there was a bill up for a vote that would kill the smog check program (and three dead ones)
so reach out, they have the program on the chopping block pretty regularly.
I may have an in with a STAR center. My son worked for a auto repair shop, family owned, that has a smog station they own next door. Just heard they are now a STAR center. Not expecting anything under the table, but would be good to have a station willing to smog an older car and talk sensibly about the results.
What about OMP and premix for smog? Digging around on the forums suggests checking the OMP rate of flow, and if its working OK then no premix for smog. That correct? I have new OMP installed, but have not checked its flow as got lazy and have been premixing belt and braces.
I left Cali. It will never actually happen. Electric cars are here, and California is already banning new gas car sales in the 2030's. California non-modified smog passing cars will only ever go up in value, it's already much harder to register an out of state car.
Well dagnabbit. Failed smog today. Results pasted below. Beginning the research on what to do next...
- Anyone know enough to look at these numbers pasted in the pic and rule out or suggest most likely culprit for high HC?
- First thought are the cats. No scientific basis except they are original to the car so 165k miles and 42 years old. I have a temp gun, and The Google says I can measure temp at each end of the cat to get an idea if its clogged or blown. That work for RX7 too given our high exhaust temps?
- Would replacing plugs and air filter be enough to knock 100 ppm off the HC? Or is that wishful thinking? Plugs and wires are six months old, but plugs definitely blackened and they did experience flooding when I had a carb overflow issues a few months back. Filter looks grey but not disgustingly filthy.
- Does a STAR test center ACTUALLY test timing? Test results says timing passed with the cryptic letters of 'P 00', but wondering if I can trust that enough to rule timing out as a cause?
Summary of car, if it helps with narrowing down the list of what to do next (eg 'if your car idles below 900rpm then you don't have a vacuum leak): Carb car with nothing removed. Idles all the way down to 600rpm, currently set to 800rpm. No premix, OMP tested and working. Car starts first time, even when cold and damp, but do need to push in choke back almost all the way once started and hold accelerator at 1500rpm whilst it warms up. (If I don't push choke back in car runs choppy). Some white smoke for a couple of minutes on cold starting, more than a regular car but not alarming amounts. No smoke at all once engine warmed up. Running really well, hard to tell if lacking power as have not driven other RX7s to compare.
the star station was supposed to check timing with the timing light, its been my experience that timing has an effect on NOX but doesn't do much for anything else
the cat does need to be hot, the hotter the better, and you can certainly check it with a gun.
high HC can be a few things, it can be too rich, it can have a cat that isn't good or not hot enough, and then it can actually be too lean as well (gasoline has changed since the carb was jetted). it is also possible that the ACV isn't working right, it should be in "port air" for the test and sometimes you need to cheese that.
unless the plugs and filters are bad bad they won't make enough difference to matter.
if it was mine i would check the ACV, and then set the idle mixture a tad richer than where it runs the best, and then go ask for a pre test, and see what it does.
Thank J9. Found instructions for testing ACV. Pasted below. Can you answer me a couple of newbie questions?
- When instructions say 'Disconnect relief solenoid valve vacuum sensing tube' is that the tube on the driver side or passenger side of the solenoid valve?
- When instructions say 'connect the tube to a suitable vacuum source' would that be accomplished by running the tube (or a longer added tube) to somewhere else in the rats nest that would provide vaccum? How and where is this done?
Sorry for the newbie questions, but instructions I can find are poorly worded and assume prior knowledge!
so the valve has two diaphragms in it, the Relief decides if the air pump air goes to the next valve, or is relieved into the air cleaner. the Switching valve switches the air pump air between "port air" or "split air"
the valves on a 12A both work with vacuum, and the solenoid. so with the engine off, its in relief and split air. when you apply vacuum it'll change.
not sure it matters which hose you pull off the solenoid actually
[QUOTE=j9fd3s;12545395]my place came with a bucket, and its almost full
Nice lawn ornament. Where you based?
If I decided to mess around inside the ACV in order to reduce HC for smog, would I direct the air to the split pipe that goes back to the cat, or direct the air to the exhaust port? Searching the forum shows previous posts suggesting each of them.
If I decided to mess around inside the ACV in order to reduce HC for smog, would I direct the air to the split pipe that goes back to the cat, or direct the air to the exhaust port? Searching the forum shows previous posts suggesting each of them.
port air works best
i'm in Palo Alto, i thought you were in LA somewhere, but maybe not?
i'm in Palo Alto, i thought you were in LA somewhere, but maybe not?
Mill Valley, Marin. To afford to live here (so The Kid has good schools) we bought a very small house. So small we turned the garage into a living room. Got a RX7 needing smog and my sons GS300 needing timing belt sitting outside in rain that never ends.
I would add a bottle of gas line antifreeze to the fuel, brand new air filter and spark plugs, lean the idle mixture a little and try it again. I would also increase the tire pressure a bit and make sure the rear brakes aren't dragging if they are testing it on a dyno.
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I'm in AZ, but we still have emissions testing in my county u less you go Historic Plates, but then your insurance watches mileage, so I swap my original 84SE cats and manifold onto the car every 2 years for testing - and have never failed emissions.
If you want the best possible outcome with the least amount of worry;
1. Change your oil - if your OMP is pumping old, contaminated oil into your intake, it's going to show up on emissions output. Change your oil filter while you're at it. It's cheap insurance, and at least you'll be sure clean oil is being burned.
2. Plugs - BR8EQ14 is the standard for our engines. Running anything else isn't helping. New plugs ensure as clean a burn as possible, and make sure everything is tight and grounded well, while you're at it.
3. Plug Wires - simple to replace in this set of items, if you can't remember the last time you replaced them, just spring for a new set.
4. Distributor Cap & Rotor - basic maintenance around ignition, and necessary to ensure clean, proper spark on these old, low-powered systems. Don't mess with the coils - the stock Mitsu components are the best you can find and almost never fail. They're designed to work with this system and give plenty of ZAP!
5. Air Filter - clean air coming in, and as much volume as possible will help with both idle emissions and the rolling dyno test. A new filer helps a lot with road performance, too, and they're comparatively cheap and easy to replace.
6. Exhaust System Gaskets - often overlooked, any air leaks in your exhaust, from the manifold to the pipes and the muffler, allows oxygen into the system, which reacts with any unburned components to create HC and CO above normal. New gaskets are cheap, time to swap them is well-spent.
7. Fuel - avoid adding anything to the fuel, and stay away from high-test (aka high octane), as rotary engines have a short ignition and power stroke, any the octane additives delay ignition specifically for piston engines - which exactly what you DON'T want in a rotary. Run a can of Seafoam through it if you want, but it's not likely to change the results.
With these things done - which is just good PM on any car every few years, you have the best shot at passing on your first attempt using stock components, and remember that emissions testing standards are based on when the car rolled off the production line. They are also compared to past years readings for your car in some states (*like AZ), so think of it as setting a baseline if you plan to keep the car in that state. Good luck,
Those original cats will definitely be not performing to meet HC criteria. Refer to this post to get the correct cats with the EO number or else it'll fail visual. I had to get a second cat to install this year and she's basically polluting no HC. New cats will almost guarantee you'll pass California sniffer testing but good that you're checking your acv otherwise your main cat will degrade quicker due to lack of air injection. Get those cats hot before taking it to the smog check. One year I also added denatured alcohol to the gas tank to get the temperature hotter on a worn out cat but power suffers a lot so fill up with fresh gas after and I think it also increases NOx.
Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. Got plugs and filter on the way, (leads are 6 mths old). Will install parts and cheat the ACV to channel air to exhaust port all the time and retest, Highway drive before, leave engine running. Will let you know what the results are, but may be many days as it simply will not stop raining here in SF and I don’t have a garage.
For sh*ts and giggles took a temp gun to the cats. 20 minutes driving to warm up, maybe 5 mins at idle whilst I found the gun. Front cat 842 in 932 out, rear cat 914 in 1058 out. The Interweb tells me the cats are working…. Any input to add to my Wild *** Guess?
Starting to think the cats may not be original. Pics of Magnaflow plug and play EO numbered cat show bolted flanges front and rear but the cats on the car are welded. Anyone know if the original cats on a FB 1981 12a were welded?
Dumb question. How do you get the air control check valve out? ACV is off, and I can see the check valve sitting there, but don't want to go prodding at it and push it somewhere I cant get it back out of! Thought I'd replace it since its cheap and accessible.
Thanks for the input. Much appreciated. Got plugs and filter on the way, (leads are 6 mths old). Will install parts and cheat the ACV to channel air to exhaust port all the time and retest, Highway drive before, leave engine running. Will let you know what the results are, but may be many days as it simply will not stop raining here in SF and I don’t have a garage.
For sh*ts and giggles took a temp gun to the cats. 20 minutes driving to warm up, maybe 5 mins at idle whilst I found the gun. Front cat 842 in 932 out, rear cat 914 in 1058 out. The Interweb tells me the cats are working…. Any input to add to my Wild *** Guess?
Starting to think the cats may not be original. Pics of Magnaflow plug and play EO numbered cat show bolted flanges front and rear but the cats on the car are welded. Anyone know if the original cats on a FB 1981 12a were welded?
original is all bolted with plenty of heat shields
Just retested SMOG. 15mph HC dropped from 233 to 134 and passed. 25mph HC went up from 155 to 199 and failed again. Dagnabbit!
Prior to the retest physically chocked open the two valves on the ACV. In the pic below I wedged the valve highlighted yellow in the open (vacuum activated) position so air cannot go to the air cleaner hose. I jammed the valve highlighted red in the open (vacuum activated) position so air cannot go to the split pipe / cat and can only go to the exhaust port. This I think means that no matter what the engine is doing, air pump air always goes to the exhaust port.
Have I done whatever can be done with the ACV and done it right….and my next step is a very expensive cat replacement? If cat temperatures showed a problem I would bite that bullet…. But both cats show a significantly higher outlet temp than inlet temp so they are not definitively toast.
Prior to retest replaced plugs, filter, oil, and none return valve at ACV. Also checked leasing and trailing timing (was good, left it exactly where it was) and turned the mixture screw 1/2 turn to richer. Don’t think these could have increased HC at 25 mph but correct me if wrong.
Last edited by Slow_sevens; 01-12-23 at 07:41 PM.
Reason: Took it apart again!
12-07-22, 11:19 AM
