I am buying a 1985 gsl-se without a motor...so to speak....

The socal mazda club guy selling it has nicely offered to put in a second generation 1988 motor for much less $ than an original motor.....Please, any comments? The newer motor is easier to get with low miles and he says it is more powerful?

This is going to be a properly engineered 12a convertible project that I will post....so thanks a bunch for the help.

 

It's doable and what he claims is true. You'll benefit from a lighter rotating assembly with an 86 & up engine.

 

The GSL-SE rotors are said to be heavier than the 2nd gen 13b's. If the guy is willing to sell you the -se with a 88 n/a, youd probably get a little bit more HP and the engine would probably be lighter (lighter is usually better).

 

The majority of the power increase will only be realized if the entire 2nd gen engine and EFI is installed.
It may be that they are going to replace the 13B-6port of the GSL-SE with a 13B-6port from the 86-88 2nd gen.If they are only looking to secure a more availible engine block to replace a bad SE engine,then you wont see much gains.

If they are actually gonna wire up and install a complete 2nd gen EFI engine into the GSL-SE,then thats a great setup to have.Its about 15 more HP and a little more torque.The 2nd gens have their share of EFI quirks too,but they are well documented and easier to chase down,since there are many,many times more 2nd gens out there,than the limited edition 1st gen GSL-SE.

 

Nice info. Thanks. The 13b in the fb is sooo cool. Fun car.

He is giving me several options vs $$$ scenarios, which I will pass on.

A complete motor and running car either way is the scenario I am most comfortable with, as it is the beginning of the project and I have learned that a project can take on a life of it's own, so startjng as stock as possible suits me.

I will be more comfortable upgrading motor etc and changing pieces out later when the project hard work is done...don't go crazy on the details to start or you get burned out and run out of money unlike the charming greek project doer I have been following on these boards...a money tree doesn't grow here

Does the value of the car as a collector piece get diminished? Or is it jacked already when I cannabilize it.

 

Tell him you want this:



its an 88 6port block with the 88 intake retrofitted with all the SE sensors, cause its a 12v system and not a 5v system so you'll need an SE MAF, IAT, TPS and a front cover from a SE 6 port along with the bracket and an SE oil pan.

This set up served me well in three SE's for many years, if you have any questions about it feel free to ask, I have all the answers.

 

And it shouln't cost a ton of money if you know where to score the parts....you're a 1st gen owner for cryin out loud!!!

 

Usually if you want it to keep the collector value, keep it completely stock.

Uhh, I don't know really what to say in response to your "upgrade motor ... when the project hard work is done" Usually swapping out motors will be the hardest part of any project car, unless its the same type of engine. Basically what you should do is search the forums for which specific parts are required for the specific engine swap that you are doing, which will usually give you an estimate on how much the project is going to cost in total.

My advice, which you dont have to take, is to get the -se with the running engine the seller is willing to supply you with. While you are able to enjoy the car and get the feel for it, then Next decide what type of project you want to do, for example a S4 T2/Na or S5 T2/Na swap etc.etc.etc., and see what parts that are already available on the car you can use. Then go from there.

 

I can back up RX guru on this one I got the set-up he used to have and used it myself for a while before going to the S5 intake...

It pulls hard as ****

 

YEAH! that's what I'm talkin' about! ....never could find a S5 intake cheap enough though... rock on Dan!

 

Just go carby! Much easier to do and simple to work on. Also the most important difference between the above mentioned motors is the Apex seals. 3mm vs. 2mm.

 

He's in California and emission laws apply.
Carb'd may be easier to set up but mileage wise the FI engine cannot be beat and also will make the HP.

 

Thanks for the input.

Boy I feel like I missed something......yes smog is necessary, so no carb stuff.....Getting a gsl-se and changing it to carb would make me sad.... Aren't both 13b motors kind of the same setup?.....13b versus 13b.....Oh, EFI is different, so has to go with motor in complete package.....I am trying to keep it simple.....My major emphasis is a BODY conversion...more later....let's get a car ....a running car to start on...cliff

 

The s4 13b has 146 hp vs the SE 135 hp. Difference only noted at the top end of the rpm range. Ask about a TII conversion and just spend the money "once". If I wanted an awesome na first gen it would have a S5 complete with vdi intake for a smooth 160hp.

 

go s4 with s3 intake its a direct bolt up really easy to swap to s4 later

 

Wow....I need a vocabulary boost... ....SE is gsl-se....ok.......s3, s4, s5 are newer 13b series...I will figure out what years...homework....crap....

Thanks for the info....I need to tell the guy what motor set up to put in.....so I will talk to him and see what my options are and report back here...

..I didn't realize that in the realm of "bolt on" I could go that much newer...sounds like an opportunity to get a much better ride....while I am in agreement with the "get it rolling and do more later" theory......A club guy is more apt to help me with a cool install than a 100% stock install though I could leave the door open for future swaps.......I will listen to your info as I like the newer motor stuff.....

I will get back to this thread because he was talking more rotor lingo 20A ????????
22a is a toyota motor......help

If the install rex pictured is straight forward I will ask about it.....You guys are giving my mechanic ulcers....

 

The pic posted up will NOT be legal in CA,trust me.
The 2nd gen does not use a distributor like in the picture.If you mix and match stuff from the SE and the S4 engine,youll get popped by the referee.The S4 also requires an EGR valve wheras the SE doesnt.You have to be careful in CA,its pretty much all or nothing here......you keep it totally stock,or you swap the ENTIRE setup from a newer car.The reffs are very thorough and by the book,they wont let anything slide.I have MUCH experience in this field since every car I own has a later model engine swapped in it, and they are ALL certified.

S4 is 86-88.....there are 2 versions, ranging from 86 to 87.0 and 87.5 to 88.
S5 is 89-92.....all are the same except the obvious N/A vs Turbo.

The Turbo swap is tempting and Ive had both S4 and S5 in my car.The current setup is a ported S5 TII making about 300HP.Its a handful and really requires a lot of other support mods to make the car safe and usable.The N/A engine will give you a fair boost in power over most other 1st gens and youll retain the legendary reliability of the N/A rotary,which regularly go 200K miles with no problem.Plus,with the N/A youll not have to upgrade the trans,brakes,tires,ect to make it work well......the car will drive and behave like stock,albiet with more pull.
The N/A S5 engine is a real hoot with its lightweight rotors and factory 8000rpm redline.Its not much harder to install than the S4,but there are some hangup with the 1st gen frontmount and the oil metering pump of the S5.Some extra mods are required to make it work.And,the S5 stuff tends to cost more and be harder to come by,since the biggest sellers by far, of the 2nd gen,were the 86-88 versions.

 

nice post. i will sleep better tonight.

I just got offered a silver-needs to be painted, stock 75k miles 85 gsl-se over my proposed 85 gsl-se red, did I mention RED.....shell needing a motor-to-be-determined.

The silver seller dude is a nice guy and mild mods only stockish car only needing a paint job which I think my painter may opt to change to red for me much cheaper than getting the powerplant right and assembly correct in the red shell.

Thanks guys...Any comments? I am closing in on my ist 12a since 1990! yeahhhhhhhh