Direct Fire Distributor for Sale
07-04-05, 01:17 AM
#1
Direct Fire Distributor for Sale
I had been working on a direct fire distributor setup and had it just about ready for installation, when my engine blew an oil line, I decided to go turbo with ignition control by ECU, and my project came to a halt. About a year later, it's clear I'm not going to finish my science project, so I'm selling it. You can read about it by typing "Direct Fire Dissy" into the search engine.
What you get:
A first gen distributor. I ground two lobes off each of the wheels and installed them 90deg out of phase, so that one trigger wheel is for rotor 1, while the other is for rotor 2. I stacked magnetic pickups above the original two, so there is one for each spark plug. The two leading pickups (stacked above one another) are locked to the distributor body, while the two trailing pickups can be rotated with respect to the leading ones. They're adjustable from approx. 0 deg to 30 deg (eccentric shaft angle) delay from leading. I checked for cross-talk with my multimeter and it is free from any. I disabled the vacuum advance, but retained the centrifugal advance -- you can disable the centrifugal advance, too if you choose.
A mounting plate for the 4 J-109 ignitors that are required. This plate bolts to the A/C bosses at the front left of the engine, just below the distributor. It is 6061 T-6 aluminum, 3/8" thick so it can provide solid mounting, adequate heat sink performance, and integral retention for the modified J-109 connectors.
4 J-109 ignitors and connectors, two of the connectors are already modified to fit the mounting plate.
What you will need:
4 coils, or four MSD 6 boxes, or one MSD DIS-4 box . . .
What's it worth?:
Performance-wise, it will depend on your setup. It will be better, but ignition is one of those areas where huge gains just aren't available unless your current system isn't up to par.
Cost-wise, this setup cost me two distributors with ignitors and connectors, a chunk of aluminum, and a pile of time in the shop and on the phone with MSD technicians. I'm willing to take $150 for the whole deal. I really want to see this thing work for somebody.
Lastly, if you don't understand any/most of this, don't buy it. This is not a "bolt in on in one hour" kit. It requires a good understanding of rotary ignition and general auto electronics.
What you get:
A first gen distributor. I ground two lobes off each of the wheels and installed them 90deg out of phase, so that one trigger wheel is for rotor 1, while the other is for rotor 2. I stacked magnetic pickups above the original two, so there is one for each spark plug. The two leading pickups (stacked above one another) are locked to the distributor body, while the two trailing pickups can be rotated with respect to the leading ones. They're adjustable from approx. 0 deg to 30 deg (eccentric shaft angle) delay from leading. I checked for cross-talk with my multimeter and it is free from any. I disabled the vacuum advance, but retained the centrifugal advance -- you can disable the centrifugal advance, too if you choose.
A mounting plate for the 4 J-109 ignitors that are required. This plate bolts to the A/C bosses at the front left of the engine, just below the distributor. It is 6061 T-6 aluminum, 3/8" thick so it can provide solid mounting, adequate heat sink performance, and integral retention for the modified J-109 connectors.
4 J-109 ignitors and connectors, two of the connectors are already modified to fit the mounting plate.
What you will need:
4 coils, or four MSD 6 boxes, or one MSD DIS-4 box . . .
What's it worth?:
Performance-wise, it will depend on your setup. It will be better, but ignition is one of those areas where huge gains just aren't available unless your current system isn't up to par.
Cost-wise, this setup cost me two distributors with ignitors and connectors, a chunk of aluminum, and a pile of time in the shop and on the phone with MSD technicians. I'm willing to take $150 for the whole deal. I really want to see this thing work for somebody.
Lastly, if you don't understand any/most of this, don't buy it. This is not a "bolt in on in one hour" kit. It requires a good understanding of rotary ignition and general auto electronics.
07-04-05, 01:37 AM
#2
07-04-05, 10:11 AM
#3
It fires separate for all 4 phases -- L1, T1, L2, and T2. Note that the wiring diagram I included is just one of many possible ways to wire this up. The real value is in the distributor, which gives you 4 discrete magnetic pulses, one timed for each plug.
07-04-05, 01:10 PM
#4
holley guy
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That setup looks awesome, but you can not use an msd dis to fire it. The dis will crap out when the 4 ignition events are not evenly spaced out. Search for a couple threads made by me a couple months ago that go more in depth. One of them is "firing first gen ignitors with second gen cas pick ups" (or something close to that). I have done something very similar with a second gen cas, I will be testing it later this week.
-Marques
-Marques
07-04-05, 02:29 PM
#5
I would have done it differently where the lower reluctor could keep all 4 of its teeth for the cool late leading effect, and mounted two pickups above 90° apart with a 2 tooth reluctor for trailing, but a good job otherwise. The hard part would be getting the two pickups close enough together.
Last edited by Jeff20B; 07-04-05 at 02:33 PM.
07-04-05, 05:00 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Jeff20B
I would have done it differently where the lower reluctor could keep all 4 of its teeth for the cool late leading effect, and mounted two pickups above 90° apart with a 2 tooth reluctor for trailing, but a good job otherwise. The hard part would be getting the two pickups close enough together.
I was playing around with the idea ages ago and it was possible to get the trailing pickups close enough but in the end I couldn't be bothered.
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07-04-05, 07:42 PM
#8
Originally Posted by mwatson184
That setup looks awesome, but you can not use an msd dis to fire it. The dis will crap out when the 4 ignition events are not evenly spaced out. Search for a couple threads made by me a couple months ago that go more in depth. One of them is "firing first gen ignitors with second gen cas pick ups" (or something close to that). I have done something very similar with a second gen cas, I will be testing it later this week.
-Marques
-Marques
07-04-05, 07:53 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Jeff20B
I would have done it differently where the lower reluctor could keep all 4 of its teeth for the cool late leading effect, and mounted two pickups above 90° apart with a 2 tooth reluctor for trailing, but a good job otherwise. The hard part would be getting the two pickups close enough together.
. In all seriousness, I did consider the setup you mention, but I like mine better.
07-04-05, 10:04 PM
#10
Burning Oil-Grinding 3rd
I have always liked the look of this setup. Even picked up some spare parts to try and duplicate it.
I would like to have it. could you take out some parts and get the price down a bit. PM me.
I would like to have it. could you take out some parts and get the price down a bit. PM me.
07-05-05, 01:33 PM
#11
I guess it's a good thing that the wasted spark as you, and lots of other piston-knowledgeable types call it, is not actually wasted on a rotary. Well, good luck getting some cashola out of it. 
REVHED, I recently installed a rebuilt engine into a neighbor's REPU and upgraded the ignition to DLIDFIS only to discover the dizzy had a bad pickup. One of the wires had intermitant contact. I swapped distributors and it ran very nicely. I now have a half dead dizzy which I could take the remaining pickup off, and reluctor, and throw it into another dizzy and make a full direct fire ignition system, as described above. Think I should? It's not a high priority since trailing doesn't really do anything for power on an NA, but I have the parts to do it now. Hmm. Is a naked dizzy cap worth the effort?
REVHED, I recently installed a rebuilt engine into a neighbor's REPU and upgraded the ignition to DLIDFIS only to discover the dizzy had a bad pickup. One of the wires had intermitant contact. I swapped distributors and it ran very nicely. I now have a half dead dizzy which I could take the remaining pickup off, and reluctor, and throw it into another dizzy and make a full direct fire ignition system, as described above. Think I should? It's not a high priority since trailing doesn't really do anything for power on an NA, but I have the parts to do it now. Hmm. Is a naked dizzy cap worth the effort?
07-05-05, 07:33 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Jeff20B
Is a naked dizzy cap worth the effort?
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