Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

while cruising the mazda related websites the other day i came upon an item that really grabbed my attention. there are rumors circulating that Mazda may show a new RX3 at the tokyo autoshow. i believe the piece said it would be a rotary powered rear drive concept car. it is amazing how cylical life is... the gt40, the new mustang and now (maybe) the RX3. many of the list members may not have been of age to appreciate the explosive impact the RX3 created for the Mazda brand. as the country slowly crawled out of the extremely depressing 70's (emmissions, re-priced oil, lousy economy and inflation) which really destroyed a great part of racing from 71 until 1980 a grassroots sanctioning body IMSA sprouted (around '76 or so) and developed into a full blown combo of factory and privateer road racing series. ( three classes GTO, GTU, and RS). Mazda laid corporate money on the table, along with other Japanese and European manufacturers and the fight was on. Mazda kicked major butt... I don't have the exact stats but the RX7 won major in GTO and GTU and the RX3 was all-conquering in the RS series. i remember attending an RS race at Daytona and there was a field of 75 cars and if you think restrictor plate racing is exciting you should have seen the bumper to bumper drafting down the back straight at Daytona. packs of 30 cars.... going 150 mph on BF Goodrich radial street tires. and what cars was invariably leading the 75 car field? the Mazda RX3. awesome racing... all over the country. Roger Mandeville, Jim Downing, Joe Varde were a few of the Mazda pilots. Roger won the RS championship in 78, 79 and 81. i think Downing won in 80. the RX3 was an awesome competitor. i bought Roger Mandeville's car in the fall of 1982 and he converted it to SCCA GT3 specs. i ran the car for 6 seasons and never placed less than 4th at the Runoffs with it. (unfortunately i never quite made the top of the podium and settled for silver in 84). while the only original piece on the car in 89, my last year of racing, was the roofskin and front windshield i was proud to keep Roger's colors (yellow) and you wouldn't believe the high fives i got around the country from people who remembered the car from IMSA. and the RX3 still is making noise... someone had a tricked out RX3 in the front row of the 02 runoffs and of course i see them cutting fast times on the dragstrips today. the RX3 is one badass car that took more scalps than any car other than the RX7. ( of course we all know that it ran a 12A rotary).
Mazda could make no better move that reprise the RX3. the street sedan market is huge and is the future of the youth/performance market. just look at the thickness and array of magazines like Sports Compact Car etc. the RX3 needs to be true to the no-compromise Mazda philosophy of engineering (RX8 has a Carbon Fiber Driveshaft!!)... rear wheel drive, Renesis powered and ideally have a double A-arm front suspension.
if Mazda makes the RX3, the future of a new RX7 will be guaranteed and Mazda will stand again at the top of the performance/youth/exciting cars for the broad- market mountain.
do it Mazda.
howard coleman

Metallic_rock

Very well worded. Can't wait to see what they decide to do.

RacerX7fb

The RX-3 was the platform car in 1978 on which the winning 1979 24 Hours of Daytona RX-7 was based upon as well.
A new 3 might be too far off as you say....http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=158

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

A lightweight tossable car with good power and suspension is what Mazda really needs. Reviving the Rx3 would fit that bill.

Thanks for starting this thread Howard Coleman, thanks for the trip down memory lane!!

Do you still have Roger's car? Any good pictures or specs? I'm going to run my car in a 2.2L challenge in southern california next year with TCRA. Similar to GT3 and can use any setup tips I can get.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Mazda needs to make a new Rx7!!! A turbo 20b to compete with those pesky Vipers and Vettes

And yes a new Rx3 would be sweet. But I would much rather have an original.

rotor vs. piston

I would love another 510, small RWD and economical (sp)

TOUGHGUY

The most important thing is that they need to make it affordable to be a success. Mazda, Toyota and Nissan priced themselves out of the market when their RX7, Supra and 300ZX respectively became to expensive for the real car enthusiasts to enjoy. Only now are we seeing the prices come down on these vehicles making them accessible to us but we are now dealing with a vehicle that is over ten years in age and somewhat limited in availability. You know, the S2000 is a great little car, but Honda took a step in the same direction as the afforementioned manufacturers by pricing it way beyond the means of the average consumer.


Toughguy

TOUGHGUY

The most important thing is that they need to make it affordable to be a success. Mazda, Toyota and Nissan priced themselves out of the market when their RX7, Supra and 300ZX respectively became to expensive for the real car enthusiasts to enjoy. Only now are we seeing the prices come down on these vehicles making them accessible to us but we are now dealing with a vehicle that is over ten years in age and somewhat limited in availability. You know, the S2000 is a great little car, but Honda took a step in the same direction as the afforementioned manufacturers by pricing it way beyond the means of the average consumer.


Toughguy

TexasGunRunner

Well, I have kind of mixed feelings about this. Sure, additional rotary powered vehicles would be great, but if true, this probably means a delay of the next RX-7.

In Japan, Mazda execs were interviewed over Summer and flatly stated they would have a new rotary concept for the Fall Tokyo auto-show. Many assumed it would be the new RX-7 with an expected debut in 2005 or 2006. In the specific interview that was translasted/relayed to me, the exec (forgot name and position, but exec or Sr. VP) was very coy about the questions around whether this concept was the new RX-7..."It will be an RX, but it is not decided yet..." or something to that effect.

Anyone who has worked closely with Japanese in Japan or Hinomaru companies knows exactly what I am referring to about this..."it is not decided yet."

So, if the concept is for the new RX-3, then the next RX-7 might be much further into the future than previously hoped.

On a side note...the rotary vehicle I want...I want a 4 rotor in my 2000 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4x4...now that would be awesome! ...and it would show those idiots at DC what for about not making the Hemi available in the Gen 3 Dakota (jerks!).

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

I personally hope they never re-release the rx-7, Look at waht they are doing to the vettes, the viper ect. car manufacturers are really f-ing up on designs of classic beauties. new gto.....squint your eyes it's a mix between a malibu and a grand prix. The rx-7 left on such a good note. lets let her rest, there's nothing i would hate to see more then her memory srewed up by altezza style lights and non pop up projector headlamps....think about it.

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

wow... this sounds... oddly... familiar......

rotary emotions

Well, it's probable true that should Mazda build a new RX3, the new Seven will have to wait.
It seems however, that Mazda is really putting new life into the Wankel Rotary engine, which is still much loved by us, but rather forgotten by most people nowadays.
By working their way up, with first the fabulous RX-8 (just put it next to the other cars in that class: those are so boring!) and then a RX3 (finally an affordable rotary again!) they could convince the world that their engine is here to stay, and is indeed superior to any other attempt to create a powersource for a car.
It'd pave the path for a RX7 that could be a true sportscar again.
After all, Mazda must now show the world again that the Rotary is a reliable, powerfull, and also clean engine. Car-buying people tend to be rather conservative, so any really new thing must be bulletproof.
As for the lines of the new Seven... Indeed, I fear the same. I hope they'll stay faithfull to the RX-7 spirit or just leave it be.

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

What is the difference between the Renisis and the Wankle?

TexasGunRunner

Wankel refers to Felix Wankel who invented the rotary engine. All rotaries are Wankels, although Mazda has refined the designed significantly.

Renesis is a Mazda marketing term designed to convince people they have a 'new' rotary engine (redesign genesis I guess). Basically they move the ports from the side to edge IIRC.

I have heard that this significantly improved design was tried in the 70's, but while it improved performace, the ports would clog with carbon in a short period of time. Supposedly, that is no longer an issue because fuels and oil are far better now (no leaded fuel?)...but I don't know how true any of that is.

I do know, that even given the lowered HP numbers from Mazda, the NA Renesis produces almost as much HP as the last NorAm version of the twin turbo (but 40-50 less than the 2002 Spirit R). That is pretty impressive for an NA engine, especially of that size.

Manntis

In addition to relocated ports, which greatly improve fuel economy and horsepower, the Renesis has a highly tuned variable-length intake system that allows for proper infestion of air throughout the RPM range.

rotary emotions

The side ports design isn't just tried in the seventies. It's part of the original Wankel design! However, back in the fifties and sixties the extreme heat within these port runners would cause the sidehousings to wrap, and you don't want that to happen...
With the Renesis (RE: Rotary Engine, NESIS comes indeed from Genesis, the biblical book describing the "birth" of the earth) we are many years from those old days, and materials have improved a lot, so the original idea of side ports could be used, again. This actually proves the fact that Felix Wankel was right all the time. Imagine that engine being made 50 years ago. How different would the automotive world have been...

oni-dori

also, did you guys know that mazda's 13b-msp renesis motor won this year's engine of the year? btw, renesis means "rotary engine genesis".

1984special

The only essential ingredients for my RX-3

1) Rotary Enginen (duh!)
2) RWD <--- So important!
3) Cheap <-- Also so important. Who wants a car they can't afford?

Important but not essential...
4) Handles well / Light (not essential because you just throw **** out!)
5) Looks good! (RX-3 was a beautiful car. Japanese compact car skinned with American muslce car tones. )


Some Mazda ROTARY Racing history here.

smnc

From what I've heard its
Renaissance/Genesis ?

oni-dori

the brochure says its "rotary engine genesis". head for your mazda dealer and look at it.

rotary emotions

I thought everybody would have had that by now

Anyway, it's indeed Rotary Engine Genesis, and I sure hope it'll be just that...
Let's pray for some more rotary vehicles to be build. An RX3 would be cool, but since the new MX5 would be build on the platform shared with the RX8, they can just aswell throw a rotary in. It'd be an absolutely perfect team: a high revving engine in a car that's build for having fun. The NSU Wankel Spider would finally have a new version...

Cody

Thats kind of stupid that even Mazda would call it "Rotary Engine Genesis."

Genesis, of course means, Birth, or creation.

Renesis, sounds like RE-birth......which of course, makes much more sense.

MosesX605

All that theoretical economy provided by the Renesis is moot. The average reported on the rx8forum.com is around 15mpg, with highs and lows at the 11mpg and 24 mpg range. That's including highway driving! All because there isn't a catalyst that will withstand the exhaust heat of the Renesis tuned properly. Mazda had to richen the maps so more unburned fuel would go out the exhaust, cooling the cats. Until Mazda makes another breakthrough in catalyst technology, the Renesis will be no more fuel efficient than the FD.

That being said, I think that a 'sporty' RX car would just clutter Mazda's lineup. They already have the new Mazda3 for the sport compact segment, the Miata for the low cost droptop/sports car segment and the RX-8 for the touring segment. The only niche left is pure sports car, IMHO. What it really comes down to is what Ford wants Mazda to release, and I'm not convinced that this RX-3 idea is it.

It would be very cool, but I don't think its coming.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

my guess is that these early fuel economy numbers may be tainted because everyone is driving the **** out of them! smoking out of their driveway to go drop a piece of mail in the box around the corner and such ...

give it some more time and we'll see ...

on the Rx-3 and Rx-7 issue, personally, i love both cars to death ... BUT ... i don't want to see either name resurrected (least not for another 20 years or so when it may mean something more than a marketing play) i think MAZDA just needs to move on to the next numbers in the sequence ...

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

well as I predicted I think its gonna turn the same way as I once said, the rx8 is TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE, I predict good sales first year or 2 and then they will drop off really bad. The reason the rx-7 went away in the first place was its price tag... The local delaer here has EIGHT, count em 8, rx-8's and not a single one of them sold yet. I hope i am wrong and maybe a rx-7 comes back to the us, but i seriously doubt it.