clutch hydrolics goin in tomorrow... help?
06-15-04, 07:11 PM
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clutch hydrolics goin in tomorrow... help?
I'm putting in all new hydrolics for the clutch tomorrow (slave, master, and hose). I'm pretty sure this is gonna be a PITA, anybody have any suggestions at all?
This is my first "big job" without my dad's help, so I'm not gonna have anybody looking over my shoulder telling me how not to screw up...
This is my first "big job" without my dad's help, so I'm not gonna have anybody looking over my shoulder telling me how not to screw up...
06-15-04, 07:32 PM
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I don't think its too hard a job. If you have a factory service manual, it helps.
IMO- the worse part is the slave cylinder. If you have a beehive cooler you have to be a semi-contortionist to get the 2 mounting bolts off. Smaller hands would make it easier, I guess. If you have swivel head socket it makes that bugger much, much easier to take on and off. I think it was a 12mm.
Take your time, make sure to wash the parts in clean brake fluid and moisten up the seals by hand (work the mechanism a little) and be patient with it. Bleed the system well and you should have no prob's!
(Oh- BTW, my slave cylibder came from NAPA auto parts and was mftg in Italy. It works fine but the outside rusted up fairly quickly. I think Mar3 had recently mentioned he painted or clearcoated his for looks? Just thought I'd mention it if you are concerend about appearances.)
IMO- the worse part is the slave cylinder. If you have a beehive cooler you have to be a semi-contortionist to get the 2 mounting bolts off. Smaller hands would make it easier, I guess. If you have swivel head socket it makes that bugger much, much easier to take on and off. I think it was a 12mm.
Take your time, make sure to wash the parts in clean brake fluid and moisten up the seals by hand (work the mechanism a little) and be patient with it. Bleed the system well and you should have no prob's!
(Oh- BTW, my slave cylibder came from NAPA auto parts and was mftg in Italy. It works fine but the outside rusted up fairly quickly. I think Mar3 had recently mentioned he painted or clearcoated his for looks? Just thought I'd mention it if you are concerend about appearances.)
Last edited by Tom; 06-15-04 at 07:35 PM.
06-15-04, 08:20 PM
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You can change the hose and slave in a matter of minutes. maybe 15 -25 minutes to the novice. The master shouldn't be too much harder though. I think you'll be done with the install and bleeding in less than an hour.
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06-15-04, 08:22 PM
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1hr. is also my expected time, unless of course the bolts on the slave are rusted on there pretty good... (which is what it looks like, but I haven't tried at all to break them loose)
and since I'm using a braided clutch line, it's already attatched to my slave b/c it would have been a bitch to get on with the slave already in the car
and since I'm using a braided clutch line, it's already attatched to my slave b/c it would have been a bitch to get on with the slave already in the car
06-15-04, 08:57 PM
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Before you get started there, go out and make sure that the replacement MC has the same mounting platform as the one you're replacing, i.e. that the bolts are at 12-O'clock and 6-O'clock, not at 7 and 1 - Victoria British has yet to fix their catalog that sends you the wrong part if you're buying for the 84/85 SE's - you'll get the '7-and-1' mounts and it's CLEARLY not the correct replacement.
As to the work itself, it's straight forward. I did this job back in February, and replaced the works, which is the best advice for aging hydraulic systems - if you only replace one part, the other part will go out within a month due to a new weakness being uncovered.
The slave is easy on the SE's - 2x14mm with a long-body socket and an extension and it's out of there. Be sure to loosen the hose attachment at the hardline before you remove the clip, since the clip seats the mounting bolt so you can get torque on it. The MC is a bit harder and may take some underdash contortionism to get it out of there. I found that a 12mm box-end and a lot of patience is necessary, but it'll work.
Once you get the new parts in and mounted, take your time bleeding the system and do it right. Fill the MC almost to the top with FRESH, CLEAN DOT-3 hydraulic fluid and then loosen the bleeder on the slave - this can also be done BEFORE you reinstall the slave onto the transmission bell-housing. Once you get clean fluid coming out, tighten down the bleeder. It will take a lot of pumping of the clutch pedal to displace enough fluid to fill the new line, the Slave and the bleeder hose - expect about 50-60 pumps of the clutch pedal.
Move the clutch SLOWLY down to the floor, tighten the bleeder, then pull the clutch pedal up SLOWLY to refill the piston area via the compensating port in the reservoir. Do this slowly each time and you won't have any problems. Be careful that when you get near the bottom of the clutch pedal travel that the 'helper' spring doesn't cause the pedal to mash to the floor - this can introduce air bubbles in your otherwise good bleeding procedure.
Constantly check the reservoir level and don't let it get anywhere near the bottom before your refill. HTH,
As to the work itself, it's straight forward. I did this job back in February, and replaced the works, which is the best advice for aging hydraulic systems - if you only replace one part, the other part will go out within a month due to a new weakness being uncovered.
The slave is easy on the SE's - 2x14mm with a long-body socket and an extension and it's out of there. Be sure to loosen the hose attachment at the hardline before you remove the clip, since the clip seats the mounting bolt so you can get torque on it. The MC is a bit harder and may take some underdash contortionism to get it out of there. I found that a 12mm box-end and a lot of patience is necessary, but it'll work.
Once you get the new parts in and mounted, take your time bleeding the system and do it right. Fill the MC almost to the top with FRESH, CLEAN DOT-3 hydraulic fluid and then loosen the bleeder on the slave - this can also be done BEFORE you reinstall the slave onto the transmission bell-housing. Once you get clean fluid coming out, tighten down the bleeder. It will take a lot of pumping of the clutch pedal to displace enough fluid to fill the new line, the Slave and the bleeder hose - expect about 50-60 pumps of the clutch pedal.
Move the clutch SLOWLY down to the floor, tighten the bleeder, then pull the clutch pedal up SLOWLY to refill the piston area via the compensating port in the reservoir. Do this slowly each time and you won't have any problems. Be careful that when you get near the bottom of the clutch pedal travel that the 'helper' spring doesn't cause the pedal to mash to the floor - this can introduce air bubbles in your otherwise good bleeding procedure.
Constantly check the reservoir level and don't let it get anywhere near the bottom before your refill. HTH,
06-15-04, 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Tom
IMO- the worse part is the slave cylinder.
IMO- the worse part is the slave cylinder.
06-15-04, 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by LongDuck
Before you get started there, go out and make sure that the replacement MC has the same mounting platform as the one you're replacing, i.e. that the bolts are at 12-O'clock and 6-O'clock, not at 7 and 1 - Victoria British has yet to fix their catalog that sends you the wrong part if you're buying for the 84/85 SE's - you'll get the '7-and-1' mounts and it's CLEARLY not the correct replacement.
As to the work itself, it's straight forward. I did this job back in February, and replaced the works, which is the best advice for aging hydraulic systems - if you only replace one part, the other part will go out within a month due to a new weakness being uncovered.
The slave is easy on the SE's - 2x14mm with a long-body socket and an extension and it's out of there. Be sure to loosen the hose attachment at the hardline before you remove the clip, since the clip seats the mounting bolt so you can get torque on it. The MC is a bit harder and may take some underdash contortionism to get it out of there. I found that a 12mm box-end and a lot of patience is necessary, but it'll work.
Once you get the new parts in and mounted, take your time bleeding the system and do it right. Fill the MC almost to the top with FRESH, CLEAN DOT-3 hydraulic fluid and then loosen the bleeder on the slave - this can also be done BEFORE you reinstall the slave onto the transmission bell-housing. Once you get clean fluid coming out, tighten down the bleeder. It will take a lot of pumping of the clutch pedal to displace enough fluid to fill the new line, the Slave and the bleeder hose - expect about 50-60 pumps of the clutch pedal.
Move the clutch SLOWLY down to the floor, tighten the bleeder, then pull the clutch pedal up SLOWLY to refill the piston area via the compensating port in the reservoir. Do this slowly each time and you won't have any problems. Be careful that when you get near the bottom of the clutch pedal travel that the 'helper' spring doesn't cause the pedal to mash to the floor - this can introduce air bubbles in your otherwise good bleeding procedure.
Constantly check the reservoir level and don't let it get anywhere near the bottom before your refill. HTH,
Before you get started there, go out and make sure that the replacement MC has the same mounting platform as the one you're replacing, i.e. that the bolts are at 12-O'clock and 6-O'clock, not at 7 and 1 - Victoria British has yet to fix their catalog that sends you the wrong part if you're buying for the 84/85 SE's - you'll get the '7-and-1' mounts and it's CLEARLY not the correct replacement.
As to the work itself, it's straight forward. I did this job back in February, and replaced the works, which is the best advice for aging hydraulic systems - if you only replace one part, the other part will go out within a month due to a new weakness being uncovered.
The slave is easy on the SE's - 2x14mm with a long-body socket and an extension and it's out of there. Be sure to loosen the hose attachment at the hardline before you remove the clip, since the clip seats the mounting bolt so you can get torque on it. The MC is a bit harder and may take some underdash contortionism to get it out of there. I found that a 12mm box-end and a lot of patience is necessary, but it'll work.
Once you get the new parts in and mounted, take your time bleeding the system and do it right. Fill the MC almost to the top with FRESH, CLEAN DOT-3 hydraulic fluid and then loosen the bleeder on the slave - this can also be done BEFORE you reinstall the slave onto the transmission bell-housing. Once you get clean fluid coming out, tighten down the bleeder. It will take a lot of pumping of the clutch pedal to displace enough fluid to fill the new line, the Slave and the bleeder hose - expect about 50-60 pumps of the clutch pedal.
Move the clutch SLOWLY down to the floor, tighten the bleeder, then pull the clutch pedal up SLOWLY to refill the piston area via the compensating port in the reservoir. Do this slowly each time and you won't have any problems. Be careful that when you get near the bottom of the clutch pedal travel that the 'helper' spring doesn't cause the pedal to mash to the floor - this can introduce air bubbles in your otherwise good bleeding procedure.
Constantly check the reservoir level and don't let it get anywhere near the bottom before your refill. HTH,
06-16-04, 10:25 AM
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ok, so, i've been working on this since 9:00, it's now 11:00, and I have nothing out of the car... I've managed to completly strip both connectoins of the hose (not on the slave side, but on the side with the metal hose) and I've also stripped the little nut that goes into the master cylinder. I did manage to release the slave and the master from the car at the bolts, but can't release anything with that is connected to the little metal hose. Now that they are both stripped round, is there any tool I can use to grab onto them? I also used an assload of wd-40 to try to break up the rust (which is what I'm assuming it is) but I think I'm kinda screwed and might need to just rip the whole damn thing out and get a new little pipe thing as well... help!!!!!
06-16-04, 10:33 AM
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If you have vise grips or channel locks, you can try those (if the nuts are already stripped).
I am having trouble visualizing this though..
I am having trouble visualizing this though..
06-16-04, 10:38 AM
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ok, i don't have time right now to take a picture and load it cause I have a class at 12 I need to get to, but everything that is connected to the metal pipe that connects the slave to the master is stripped, that includes BOTH sides of the part that connects the slave hose to the metal pipe, as well as the small nut that connects to the master cylinder. Also, now that hose is all bent (the metal one that connects the master to the hose of the slave) and no, I don't have vice grips here, I guess I'll go buy some after class and see if that works... :-/
do u visualize it now?
do u visualize it now?
06-16-04, 10:40 AM
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wow, that wasn't very descriptive. Maybe this will help...
start at the slave, now move up the soft hose. There is where it connects, a larger nut and a smaller nut. BOTH of them are stripped. Now keep going down that metal pipe, and where it goes into the master cylinder, that is stripped too.
I think that's a bit more clear
start at the slave, now move up the soft hose. There is where it connects, a larger nut and a smaller nut. BOTH of them are stripped. Now keep going down that metal pipe, and where it goes into the master cylinder, that is stripped too.
I think that's a bit more clear
06-16-04, 10:47 AM
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gah, not sure if my last post worked, but I'm gonna try again...
The metal line isn't crimped, and not THAT badly bent, I think it's still very useable, I just need to get the damn slave and master disconnected. And I'm probably gonna need two vice grips to get the slave hose disconnected, right?
The metal line isn't crimped, and not THAT badly bent, I think it's still very useable, I just need to get the damn slave and master disconnected. And I'm probably gonna need two vice grips to get the slave hose disconnected, right?
06-16-04, 11:06 AM
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Thats what I would try. I prever vise over say channel locks or liers. Less of a tendancy to slip.
If it's not an emergency job, try soaking those buggers in liquid wrench or break-free for a while.
If it's not an emergency job, try soaking those buggers in liquid wrench or break-free for a while.
06-16-04, 11:07 AM
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Get the whole system out out of the car as a unit. If you have replacements for everything else then it would be wise to replace the hardline also. Loosen the little bracket on the firewall to release the hardline from the car. Then the whole thing should come right out.
I would also reccomend putting the whole system together off the car and bleed it off the car also. It is much easier to bleed off the car with one person and (read it is impossible to do this while on the car) makes installation easier also.
I would also reccomend putting the whole system together off the car and bleed it off the car also. It is much easier to bleed off the car with one person and (read it is impossible to do this while on the car) makes installation easier also.
06-16-04, 12:08 PM
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RotaryAXer's idea is pretty sound It easy to work on outside of the car, and you can always get two wrenches on to untorque those tight fittings...
Vice Grips are hands-down your best bet to get a hold of them.. . I can help you out, if you want to drive up here.. It would be about an hour and halfish drive, though.. I live near Williamsport, PA. PM me if need a hand..
~Wonko
It easy to work on outside of the car, and you can always get two wrenches on to untorque those tight fittings...Vice Grips are hands-down your best bet to get a hold of them.. . I can help you out, if you want to drive up here.. It would be about an hour and halfish drive, though.. I live near Williamsport, PA. PM me if need a hand..
~Wonko
06-16-04, 12:35 PM
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And for future referance, this is why they make LINE wrenches. Because hydraulic hardlines are VERY tight, the nuts on them are usually relativly soft metal, and normal box ends will more or less ALWAYS round them off.
Like this.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00944176000
Like this.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...id=00944176000