delrx7

are ceramic seals good enough for everyday driving.and if they how long will they last in a lightly modified 12a say like 200hp

DAVID GRIMES

Good enough for daily driving ? Yeah, sure.

"Lightly modified 12A" not equal to 200 hp. That is doubling the stock horsepower. Takes quite a bit of modding to get to 200 horsies at the back wheels. You can possibly get to 150 or so with induction and exhaust changes. Get even closer with porting on top of those mods.

Boost of some time is required to get you well into the 200's and beyond.

delrx7

so theyll last longer than stock seals and are they the main thing that goes bad mechanically on high mile engines or should i get one of those 2 piece eccentric shafts or something else

lovintha7

Apex seals and oil and coolant rings seem to be the major cause of death, unless someone over revved, and the rotor touched the housing when the e-shaft flexed too much. Only thing about ceramic seals that I heard, was spark knock would shatter one in a heartbeat.

jorx81@aol.com

iTrader: (6)

$1,800 a set, ooooooooooooouuuuuuuuch!

SS124A

yeah i don't see the point of spending that much $$$ on just one component of an engine for a daily driver.

besides the fact that the ceramic seals do not seal all that well at low RPM anyway....

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

I know the racers use them. The general feeling is that they are almost indestructable. I would never use them in a boost application. I just orderd a set of 3mm carbon seals for my race engine.

Boswoj

Carbon seals are widely used by racers. They allow more components to be re-used when rebuilding because when they let go they don't destroy everything they touch like the steel ones. Carbon seals are also the ones that will fracture when faced with detonation, which primarily occurs with forced induction - that is why they shouldn't be used in those applications. Ceramics, on the other hand are supposedly incredibly durable and it is suggested that they can be transferred from motor to motor, although I have no first-hand experience. I think that mostly top class racers and high pressure boosted motors are the primary market for ceramic seals. Ianetti is the only manufacturer that I know by name that makes them. They are just too expensive to use for anything but extreme applications.

steve84GS TII

200hp.......you dont need ceramic seal at all.

The stock steel seals are good fo much more than that.Im running 300 on stock 2MM seals with no problem.As stated,the ceramics are durable and dont eat housings when they do fail.In a way, for racers they are an expensive but touger replacement for carbon seals.Carbon seals are very fragile,but cheap and very friendly to rotor housings when they break.
Trust me,stock 3MM 12A seals will work just fine with 200+hp.
I even considered going 3MM on my S5 13BT for durabilty. John at Mazdatrix who built my engine,talked me out of it.Just not neccesary for the HP level I was planning.The stock seals are quite stong.

kleinke

I think you do not need ceramic seals if the car is only street driven, but not because of only 200 horsepower, is not the reason. For example 2-piece ceramic seals are used in the Star Mazda series, wherein the engines are not "high horsepower" compared to even moderately turbocharged engines which still are using steel seals.
also NRS Rotorsports.

steve84GS TII

Use of ceramic seals for their longevity and good wear characteristics in a street vehicle would be a good,albeit expensive choice.

To me,his question indicated that he was concerned with ceramic seals holding up in a 200hp engine.In that case they would be overkill.In a stock/mild/moderate 12A,the stock seals can run 150K-200K miles and still be perfectly healthy if maintenence and driving behavior is excellent.
A 175 crank HP 12A can be obtained in N/A form with mild/moderate streetporting and bolt on parts.I did it with a RB exhaust,Yaw carb and upgraded ignition.
200hp is not too far off that,which means bridgeporting RPMs,turbo stress,exotic seals,detonation survivabilty,nitrous abuse,ect are not much of an issue.
Stock steel seals should be perfectly adequte for a 200HP normally aspirated streetcar,given proper maintenence and a safe RPM ceiling.

shm21284

the stock seals will take 650 and beyond. Atkins seals, which arent quite as good as factory, are being used in a 850 hp drag car running (i think) 45 psi. Ceramic seals increase wear resistance, lower the temperature inside the motor due to less friction, and are actually pretty resistant to detonation (according to JHB Performance, they are the best resistant to detonation). Stock seals are more than willing to take the beating of a street ported 12a with intake, carb, exhaust headers, and straight exhaust (all needed to make 180 at the flywheel).

I made 300 hp at the flywheel on my boosted 12a and the stock seals were ok. At one time, I accidentally ran 27psi through that little engine and still, the stock seals were ok.