cats for smog
07-26-06, 11:42 AM
#1
cats for smog
hey fellow memebers,
i live in california the land of the strict smog regs. i recently failed badly. im thinking about seafoaming my car and replacing the catalytic converter(s) for my car. also tuning my carb to be more lean and lower rpms.
anyways i just wanted to ask about the catalytic converters. i was looking at a bonez system. i just want clarity on whether i should buy the converter system or the cat (blank). i think the blank means its just a high flow unit which wont help me as much as the system. the system looks like it comes with both cats too. also do i need the bolt and gasket set?
also im pretty sure all my other emissions work properly. there was air blowing out of the tube comming out of the acv and im pretty sure the air pump works.
thank you for all your help! im getting an extension on my temporary moving pass so that i have more time to fix my car to pass smog. i posted my numbers on the sticky thread in the west forum section. have a great week!
i live in california the land of the strict smog regs. i recently failed badly. im thinking about seafoaming my car and replacing the catalytic converter(s) for my car. also tuning my carb to be more lean and lower rpms.
anyways i just wanted to ask about the catalytic converters. i was looking at a bonez system. i just want clarity on whether i should buy the converter system or the cat (blank). i think the blank means its just a high flow unit which wont help me as much as the system. the system looks like it comes with both cats too. also do i need the bolt and gasket set?
also im pretty sure all my other emissions work properly. there was air blowing out of the tube comming out of the acv and im pretty sure the air pump works.
thank you for all your help! im getting an extension on my temporary moving pass so that i have more time to fix my car to pass smog. i posted my numbers on the sticky thread in the west forum section. have a great week!
07-26-06, 03:48 PM
#2
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The Bonez system has one high flow cat, and a silencer. It should be a direct replacement for the factory system, from the manifold to the rear pipe over the axle.
The blank cat is just the cat, and must be custom fit, often requiring additional pipe.
For the minor difference in price, I'd say get the system, along with the bolt/gasket kit. That way, you could do the install yourself, and would likely save more in the long run. Having the blank converter installed at an exhaust shop, along with the custom pipe, would likely cost much more.
The blank cat is just the cat, and must be custom fit, often requiring additional pipe.
For the minor difference in price, I'd say get the system, along with the bolt/gasket kit. That way, you could do the install yourself, and would likely save more in the long run. Having the blank converter installed at an exhaust shop, along with the custom pipe, would likely cost much more.
07-26-06, 06:36 PM
#4
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I don't know about Cali laws, therefore, I cannot say whether it would pass. It *should* pass the sniffer test. I dunno about a visual test, though.
Oh, I may have been wrong about the system replacing everything to the muffler, it may still use the stock connecting pipe.
I plan to purchase the system, in the event that emmission testing is re-instated here.
Oh, I may have been wrong about the system replacing everything to the muffler, it may still use the stock connecting pipe.
I plan to purchase the system, in the event that emmission testing is re-instated here.
07-26-06, 09:34 PM
#5
FB+FC=F-ME
I pass easily with a Bonez cat on my TII engine.They work very well and they hold up to a rotary, no problems.
The 1st gens should have the precats intact,but they dont exactly need to be working.They just have to be present,even if the insides are hollow.They really only do a lot of work when the engine is cold,and as we all know,smog tests should always be performed on a hot engine.I cannot garauntee that you would pass a CA visual smog inspection with just 1 cat and that presilencer.....although you should pass the sniffer test no problem,and the tech very well might mistake the presilencer for a pre-cat...they do look very similar.
I would'nt screw around with the mixture if its running well already.Leaning it out will raise the NoX levels,which are now being monitered.And if you go too lean,you can actually fail worse, due to misfires dumping more HC's out the engine. Most cars are tuned rich and the remainder is left to the cats to clean up.A well tuned rotary with all the smog gear intact,will actually put out very little pollution...the trade off is an extremely hot exhaust.
What are your failing smog numbers? The CO count will tell us if you actually need to adjust the mixture,or if the cats are actually the only problem.And be sure the ignition system is in perfect operating order.Its the weakest system on the engine,and one of the most important for maintaining smog compliance.
The 1st gens should have the precats intact,but they dont exactly need to be working.They just have to be present,even if the insides are hollow.They really only do a lot of work when the engine is cold,and as we all know,smog tests should always be performed on a hot engine.I cannot garauntee that you would pass a CA visual smog inspection with just 1 cat and that presilencer.....although you should pass the sniffer test no problem,and the tech very well might mistake the presilencer for a pre-cat...they do look very similar.
I would'nt screw around with the mixture if its running well already.Leaning it out will raise the NoX levels,which are now being monitered.And if you go too lean,you can actually fail worse, due to misfires dumping more HC's out the engine. Most cars are tuned rich and the remainder is left to the cats to clean up.A well tuned rotary with all the smog gear intact,will actually put out very little pollution...the trade off is an extremely hot exhaust.
What are your failing smog numbers? The CO count will tell us if you actually need to adjust the mixture,or if the cats are actually the only problem.And be sure the ignition system is in perfect operating order.Its the weakest system on the engine,and one of the most important for maintaining smog compliance.
07-27-06, 12:10 AM
#6
thank you soooo very much for allll of that info steve! here are my numbers:
15 MPH - HC: 844PPM vs 152MAX, CO: 2.89% vs 1.05MAX, NO: 220PPM vs 1191MAX
25 MPH - HC: 766PPM vs 123MAX, CO: 2.83% vs 0.85MAX, NO: 202PPM vs 1021 MAX
my NO levels are low, just my CO and HC especially are high making my car a gross polluter. good this it was just a pre-test so nothing sent to the dmv. i have faith for my rotary!!! thanks again!!
15 MPH - HC: 844PPM vs 152MAX, CO: 2.89% vs 1.05MAX, NO: 220PPM vs 1191MAX
25 MPH - HC: 766PPM vs 123MAX, CO: 2.83% vs 0.85MAX, NO: 202PPM vs 1021 MAX
my NO levels are low, just my CO and HC especially are high making my car a gross polluter. good this it was just a pre-test so nothing sent to the dmv. i have faith for my rotary!!! thanks again!!
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07-27-06, 11:38 AM
#8
also, before you get to the station, take her out for a few WOT runs to really heat up the cat to help it catalize the exhaust even more. Another thing you can do is use Header Wrap like the turbo guys use on their downpipes around your cat. The more heat you can trap, the better the converter will work. Just make sure once you pass that you pull it off, or else you're going to be replacing the system often.
07-27-06, 02:04 PM
#9
thanks for everyones input! i have ordered the bonez converter system and the bolt and gasket set from rx7.com and it should arrive shortly. in the meanwhile i plan to seafoam my car to clean the internals and old cats a lil (if it still does something at least). also it will clean all my fuel lines and injection too. if the new cat still will not do... i might try some denatured alcohol depending on the numbers or if its really bad.. take it to a rotary shop for once.
anyways thank you all again! im hoping once the system is installed i can pass smog! have a nice weekend!
anyways thank you all again! im hoping once the system is installed i can pass smog! have a nice weekend!
07-27-06, 02:39 PM
#11
Make sure the motor is in total tune. Meaning spark plugs are in good shape, air cleaner clean, oil changed. Usually carb'd rotaries fail because of a worn out catalytic converter.
As others have stated, Do not adjust the carb, you will do more harm than good. Run a strong fuel system cleaner such as Bg's Mi3000, can be found at most dealerships and good repair shops. Does not hurt to dump some of the Pass or dont pay emissions additive either. Make sure when you take it in that you drive it for 30 minutes or so then do not shut it off before your test.
As others have stated, Do not adjust the carb, you will do more harm than good. Run a strong fuel system cleaner such as Bg's Mi3000, can be found at most dealerships and good repair shops. Does not hurt to dump some of the Pass or dont pay emissions additive either. Make sure when you take it in that you drive it for 30 minutes or so then do not shut it off before your test.
07-27-06, 11:27 PM
#12
FB+FC=F-ME
Your NoX levels are low because your running mondo rich.The extra fuel makes the combustion cooler,which promotes reduction of NoX,but tends to overwhelm the cat(old or new) with excess HC's.
Be absolutely sure that the air filter is clean,the carb is cleaned out and the timing is dead on along with checking sparkplugs and wires.Be sure both ignition systems are working right,use a timing light to verify.If the idle isnt stable and smooth,check for cracked/loose/cooked vacuum lines(especially the big one in the back)
If you install the cat and go back and the CO is still high....then ask if the shop guys can fiddle with the mixture screw a little with the engine at idle.The ideal idle mixture is when the CO is almost zero.The idle circuitry does affect the mixture at higher levels,although its not the primary reason for a carb to run rich at cruise and higher RPMs.That is often caused by sunken floats,bad/clogged needles or just a plain gunked up carb.If the car wont smo after the cat and tuneup,it might be time for a carb rebuild.
AND BE SURE SHE'S PLENTY HOT AND BOTHERED BEFORE TESTING!!!
Wind the engine out a bit on a backstreet before the test.Use fresh gas and even some alcohol in the tank wouldnt hurt,but it really shouldnt be neccesary if all is well with the smog control gear.....
Be absolutely sure that the air filter is clean,the carb is cleaned out and the timing is dead on along with checking sparkplugs and wires.Be sure both ignition systems are working right,use a timing light to verify.If the idle isnt stable and smooth,check for cracked/loose/cooked vacuum lines(especially the big one in the back)
If you install the cat and go back and the CO is still high....then ask if the shop guys can fiddle with the mixture screw a little with the engine at idle.The ideal idle mixture is when the CO is almost zero.The idle circuitry does affect the mixture at higher levels,although its not the primary reason for a carb to run rich at cruise and higher RPMs.That is often caused by sunken floats,bad/clogged needles or just a plain gunked up carb.If the car wont smo after the cat and tuneup,it might be time for a carb rebuild.
AND BE SURE SHE'S PLENTY HOT AND BOTHERED BEFORE TESTING!!!
Wind the engine out a bit on a backstreet before the test.Use fresh gas and even some alcohol in the tank wouldnt hurt,but it really shouldnt be neccesary if all is well with the smog control gear.....
08-10-06, 02:39 PM
#14
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cool, I'm interested to see how this works out because I just bought a car last week and I can't even register it until I show them an emissions sheet and right now the car has full racing beat exhaust with no cats
08-22-06, 03:50 PM
#15
ok i finally got around to taking off the exhaust. but before this.. heat shields or protecting metal pieces against rocks or whatever u want to call it... anyways.. those nuts and bolts are bitches!!! i got all of them out.. except 2.. and its holding me back from the last shield. im going to osh to get some tin snips to cut out the surounding joined metal to cut off the bolts. then i can gain access to removing the cats bolts and put in the new cat
08-22-06, 09:17 PM
#16
here are a few pics from today
car
the bottom
first time working with metal...
the other damn stripped bolt
tools used to cut part of the hangers of bolts that hold the shield up
well i finally got all the bottom shields out to get to the bolts of the cat system. i will finish taking out the system and installing the new on on thursday.
car
the bottom
first time working with metal...
the other damn stripped bolt
tools used to cut part of the hangers of bolts that hold the shield up
well i finally got all the bottom shields out to get to the bolts of the cat system. i will finish taking out the system and installing the new on on thursday.
08-28-06, 01:41 AM
#17
here is the bonez cat internals:
silencer:
cat system:
i got video links of my car with the original cat system disconnected and just the original exhaust manifold with precat is on the car (loud huh? i think this is a must do thing when you are taking off your exhaust lol):
well hopefully this new cat system (although it is much small than original catS) will help me pass smog. in the videos you can hear my conversation with my dad to see if the acv which lets the air pumped from the air pump go into the cat works. it didnt blow air because the blue paper didnt get pushed out nor did i feel anything before.. bad acv? if this is the case hopefully i can use the cat itself to pass smog so i can get my car registered.
i am typing this.. waiting for youtube to load my videos... gosh taking out the original cat system was such a pain... expecially on the hard concrete garage on my back.. and the rusted bolts.. PB Blaster is my hero!!!
ok i will get the links to the vids later.. its still "processing"
also i will take pics of the system in the car. and maybe a vid of how it sounds. i havent driven the car to see if i noticed any power gains..
silencer:
cat system:
i got video links of my car with the original cat system disconnected and just the original exhaust manifold with precat is on the car (loud huh? i think this is a must do thing when you are taking off your exhaust lol):
well hopefully this new cat system (although it is much small than original catS) will help me pass smog. in the videos you can hear my conversation with my dad to see if the acv which lets the air pumped from the air pump go into the cat works. it didnt blow air because the blue paper didnt get pushed out nor did i feel anything before.. bad acv? if this is the case hopefully i can use the cat itself to pass smog so i can get my car registered.
i am typing this.. waiting for youtube to load my videos... gosh taking out the original cat system was such a pain... expecially on the hard concrete garage on my back.. and the rusted bolts.. PB Blaster is my hero!!!
ok i will get the links to the vids later.. its still "processing"
also i will take pics of the system in the car. and maybe a vid of how it sounds. i havent driven the car to see if i noticed any power gains..
08-28-06, 05:22 PM
#18
videos of no exhaust hooked on except the manifold with precat:
first try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpjYt7zmqIY
second try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHJx4LBWko
first try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpjYt7zmqIY
second try:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHJx4LBWko
08-28-06, 08:23 PM
#19
pics of the cat system installed:
i forgot to mention i put in the front and rear shield back up with some modification because the middle bracket sat farther back because of the silencer rather than the original small primary cat. i decided to leave the middle shield off because the cat already has its own.
also i decided to not do what the instructions said about cutting off the stock flange from the acv/airpump so i cut off the one from original cat because it was shot anyways and used the supplied high temp tube to connect that flange to the bonez cat so that the flange from the acv is still original.
i forgot to mention i put in the front and rear shield back up with some modification because the middle bracket sat farther back because of the silencer rather than the original small primary cat. i decided to leave the middle shield off because the cat already has its own.
also i decided to not do what the instructions said about cutting off the stock flange from the acv/airpump so i cut off the one from original cat because it was shot anyways and used the supplied high temp tube to connect that flange to the bonez cat so that the flange from the acv is still original.
09-01-06, 05:52 PM
#22
hey guys... for the sake of not starting another thread and wasting more bandwidth... how do i do timing on my car? i looked at the main pully but i cannot see any marks... on the dizzy there are marks and it looks off... im a newb so im still learning and it sucks that theres no first genner around my area to help me out. i need to fine tune my carb for the a/f mixture and idle speed kuz i dont think the tac is accurate. after that.. oil change and im hittin the smog station!
09-01-06, 06:12 PM
#23
ok so i refered to my fsm and i found the marks on the pully... i alligned the first mark which is the leading mark to the pointer.. so now all i need is a timing gun and i suppose that i attach it to the leading wire... then it senses the current in the wire and lights.. the light is suppose to be pointed at the mark indicator and when it lights... i should see the mark allign with the indicator correct?.. well i think im going to head over to kragen and buy an oil filter and maybe a timing gun
09-02-06, 07:46 PM
#24
ok so here is the result...
today i took in my car to smog with POS mechanics who talk **** about me kuz i drive a 7 we all hate smog.
drove it for a good time and left the car idle until it was my turn to go on the dyno. (i had a little under a quarter tank of gas)
before the test a mechanic helped me adjust my timing to factory specs.
i passed the 15 mph test but failed the 25 mph test because of too many HC (a little more than 40 pass the max.
i leaned out my a/f mixture all the way before it backfires. ( i dont have to worry about NO and CO because of my new bonez cat)
had a little fire incident with the blue rubber tube.. should have never questioned Rx Seven advice. but it just melted off the part thats closest to the cat.. the tube is still on though.
drove it around some more to warm back up the cat and came back to the shop.
idled longer because there was more wait.
by now my tank of gas is halfway through the red E line... and my car is smoking a lot. so i shut off the engine and the smoking went away. turned it back on and it didnt smoke.
once on the dyno.. ta da!!! i was going to pass both 15 and 25 mph because the screen was all green!!! but.... the smog tech had to abort because it started smoking... a lot.... again...
im guessing this is because i had SeaFoam still in the tank and it is less dense than gasoline and once the tank was empty.. my car burned seafoam which smokes. and the smoke in the air would have failed my test so that is why he aborted. otherwise if there was less or no smoke i couldve passed... THE LEGAL WAY!! YAY!!!
anyways the mech told me to take it home and bring it back tuesday and drive it around to clean out whatever was in my tank (seafoam)
i filled the tank to full to dilute all the seafoam (crap what happens if the seafoam just floats to the top again.. i just thought of this...)
i will take it back on tuesday to PASS my car because it shouldnt smoke anymore...
I WAS THIS *index and thumb close together* CLOSE!!!! ARGHHH
but now i know the bonez cat helped a lot!!!!
also i did an oil change and oil filter change this morning
my plugs are still quite new and so are my wires, cap, and rotor.
im double the averages but a pass is a pass. ahhhh sooooo close.. damn smoke.
today i took in my car to smog with POS mechanics who talk **** about me kuz i drive a 7 we all hate smog.
drove it for a good time and left the car idle until it was my turn to go on the dyno. (i had a little under a quarter tank of gas)
before the test a mechanic helped me adjust my timing to factory specs.
i passed the 15 mph test but failed the 25 mph test because of too many HC (a little more than 40 pass the max.
i leaned out my a/f mixture all the way before it backfires. ( i dont have to worry about NO and CO because of my new bonez cat)
had a little fire incident with the blue rubber tube.. should have never questioned Rx Seven advice. but it just melted off the part thats closest to the cat.. the tube is still on though.
drove it around some more to warm back up the cat and came back to the shop.
idled longer because there was more wait.
by now my tank of gas is halfway through the red E line... and my car is smoking a lot. so i shut off the engine and the smoking went away. turned it back on and it didnt smoke.
once on the dyno.. ta da!!! i was going to pass both 15 and 25 mph because the screen was all green!!! but.... the smog tech had to abort because it started smoking... a lot.... again...
im guessing this is because i had SeaFoam still in the tank and it is less dense than gasoline and once the tank was empty.. my car burned seafoam which smokes. and the smoke in the air would have failed my test so that is why he aborted. otherwise if there was less or no smoke i couldve passed... THE LEGAL WAY!! YAY!!!
anyways the mech told me to take it home and bring it back tuesday and drive it around to clean out whatever was in my tank (seafoam)
i filled the tank to full to dilute all the seafoam (crap what happens if the seafoam just floats to the top again.. i just thought of this...)
i will take it back on tuesday to PASS my car because it shouldnt smoke anymore...
I WAS THIS *index and thumb close together* CLOSE!!!! ARGHHH
but now i know the bonez cat helped a lot!!!!
also i did an oil change and oil filter change this morning
my plugs are still quite new and so are my wires, cap, and rotor.
im double the averages but a pass is a pass. ahhhh sooooo close.. damn smoke.
09-09-06, 06:44 PM
#25
alright so i went back this morning from since a week ago. the results... drumroll please...
I PASSED CA SMOG 100% LEGIT! YAY!!
here are the numbers:
TEST RPM %CO2 %O2 HC (PPM) CO% NO (PPM)
15MPH 2069 14.3 0.3 77 (max 152) 0.67 (max 1.05) 45 (max 1191)
25MPH 2203 14.3 0.2 88 (max 123) 0.78 (max 0.85) 52 (max 1021)
the bonez cat works! also it helped me the most. besides oil change, oil filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, dist. cap, dist. rotor, air filter, seafoam, 76 & cheveron w/techron gas, love & care... yea i put a lot of work to make it pass legally. and it did!!!! how many first gens can do that? huh? lol i can drive around worry free (for the police at least) for 2 years!
I PASSED CA SMOG 100% LEGIT! YAY!!
here are the numbers:
TEST RPM %CO2 %O2 HC (PPM) CO% NO (PPM)
15MPH 2069 14.3 0.3 77 (max 152) 0.67 (max 1.05) 45 (max 1191)
25MPH 2203 14.3 0.2 88 (max 123) 0.78 (max 0.85) 52 (max 1021)
the bonez cat works! also it helped me the most. besides oil change, oil filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, dist. cap, dist. rotor, air filter, seafoam, 76 & cheveron w/techron gas, love & care... yea i put a lot of work to make it pass legally. and it did!!!! how many first gens can do that? huh? lol i can drive around worry free (for the police at least) for 2 years!