Cage vs Rollbar. Sanctioning body rules.
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Cage vs Rollbar. Sanctioning body rules.
Leafing through the NASA rules, I came across the section about safety equipment. Cages to be exact.
Does "Option" mean all front hoops are optional, or does it mean I MUST have a front hoop, but I may choose between any of the three.
I'd really rather not have a full on cage because I'd really rather not drive on public roads in a helmet.
Originally Posted by NASA GCR
15.6.8 Forward Hoops (Option 1) The forward hoops shall extend from the main hoop (in a forward direction) to the floor by following the roof and the “A” pillar of the car. There shall be a bar connecting the two (2) forward hoops at the top of the windshield mounted as close to the roof as possible without violating CCR Section #15.6.20 Inspection. The forward hoops shall incorporate no more than four bends each. Optionally a “15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2)” or “15.6.10 Front Hoop (Option 3)” construction may also be acceptable.
15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2) A “halo bar” extends from the main hoop (in a forward direction) following the roof line to the windshield then following along the top of the windshield, then following the roof line back to the main hoop, thus creating a “halo” over the driver’s head. A “halo” bar shall be constructed of one continuous piece of tubing. One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each.
15.6.10 Front Hoop (Option 3) A “front hoop” is a bar that extends up from the floor, then follows the “A” pillar up to the roof, then follows the roof line across the top of the windshield, then back down the other “A” pillar, and then terminates on the floor. There must be one (1) horizontal bar (following the roof line) connecting the main hoop and the forward hoop on each side of the car. The front hoop shall incorporate no more than four (4) bends.
15.6.9 Halo Hoop (Option 2) A “halo bar” extends from the main hoop (in a forward direction) following the roof line to the windshield then following along the top of the windshield, then following the roof line back to the main hoop, thus creating a “halo” over the driver’s head. A “halo” bar shall be constructed of one continuous piece of tubing. One (1) down tube following the “A” pillar must support the “halo” on each side of the car. The down tubes shall incorporate no more than two (2) bends each.
15.6.10 Front Hoop (Option 3) A “front hoop” is a bar that extends up from the floor, then follows the “A” pillar up to the roof, then follows the roof line across the top of the windshield, then back down the other “A” pillar, and then terminates on the floor. There must be one (1) horizontal bar (following the roof line) connecting the main hoop and the forward hoop on each side of the car. The front hoop shall incorporate no more than four (4) bends.
I'd really rather not have a full on cage because I'd really rather not drive on public roads in a helmet.
Stay away from my CT!!!
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From: Giddings, Texas
This is what i got, i never hit my head on it, except the roof... OUCH!!!, but i will probably take the side bar out so my seats fit... Hope it helps.
Last edited by 1985_RX-7; Jul 27, 2005 at 09:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Pele
Leafing through the NASA rules, I came across the section about safety equipment. Cages to be exact.
Does "Option" mean all front hoops are optional, or does it mean I MUST have a front hoop, but I may choose between any of the three.
I'd really rather not have a full on cage because I'd really rather not drive on public roads in a helmet.
Does "Option" mean all front hoops are optional, or does it mean I MUST have a front hoop, but I may choose between any of the three.
I'd really rather not have a full on cage because I'd really rather not drive on public roads in a helmet.
EDIT: Forgot to add the "front hoop". That's one from the floor on one side to the floor on the other side, following the a-pillar up then crossing at the top of the windshield and down the other a-pilar. Then, using two short lengths to connect that to the main hoop. Again, it's just another way to skin the cat. BTW, this is particular method is rather uncommon, I think. At least, I haven't noticed very many cars with front hoops.
Last edited by Blake; Jul 27, 2005 at 01:31 PM.
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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From: Austin, Texas
AFAIK, those rules only apply if you're planning on running in a racing category. If you're just planning to do HPDE a rollbar is the most that's required.
You'll also need to be careful with how much modification you do to allow your bar/cage. If you cut anything (like the door skin) it's now automatically a racecar and has to follow ALL regulations for racecars. It's a slippery slope (if a slope could be dumber than a pile of crap).
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to add that once you're set in a racing category, you're subject to every whim that category's inspector/director happens to wish upon you (or your competitors)... regardless of stupidity.
You'll also need to be careful with how much modification you do to allow your bar/cage. If you cut anything (like the door skin) it's now automatically a racecar and has to follow ALL regulations for racecars. It's a slippery slope (if a slope could be dumber than a pile of crap).
EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to add that once you're set in a racing category, you're subject to every whim that category's inspector/director happens to wish upon you (or your competitors)... regardless of stupidity.
Whatever sanctioning body you are racing under will tell you how many 'points' your cage requires. When I put my cage in, I had a choice of doing a 6 point, without door bars, or an 8 point, with the door bars. Once I had the door bars welded in, I found it was nearly impossible to get in and out of the car, so I bought the hinge kit for the door bars.
If you add a halo, you are looking at a 10 point cage. If you are drag racing, you need to be damn fast before they require it. You might want to check if it is even needed for the competition you plan on running.
If you add a halo, you are looking at a 10 point cage. If you are drag racing, you need to be damn fast before they require it. You might want to check if it is even needed for the competition you plan on running.
He is wanting to know what he *MUST* run rather than what they are trying to explain - At least that his how I read his post.
Maybe another way for me to explain what I think the rule means would be:
The word "Option" is different than "Optional". In that set of rules, You have an option to choose what style of main hoop front bracing you want to use - BUT - Front bracing of the main hoop is not optional.
-billy
Maybe another way for me to explain what I think the rule means would be:
The word "Option" is different than "Optional". In that set of rules, You have an option to choose what style of main hoop front bracing you want to use - BUT - Front bracing of the main hoop is not optional.
-billy
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Rotary Freak
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I thought what he was asking was rather clear. I was just explaining that the options presented were just various ways to do the exact same thing; not some way around having a front half to the roll cage. It was also clear that he is talking about road racing, based on the rule-set he chose to quote and have clarified. Further, that rule-set would apply only to real racing; not to HPDEs or whatever. Talk about drag racing cages seems irrelavant, unless I'm missing something. Drag racing regulations are so different as to be like another universe, so experience in one has little value in the other.
Thread Starter
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From: Behind a workbench, repairing FC Electronics.
So I don't need a front hoop on HPDE? I don't think Spec Miata's have em. I know the Shelby Cobras didn't...
But those are all lighter than the 7, so I wanted to double check. I'd definately be going for HPDE. I just wanna put the car on the track and have fun. Watching people race at HyperFest this year at Summit Point is all the inspiration I need. The four car wreck was no deterrant.
But those are all lighter than the 7, so I wanted to double check. I'd definately be going for HPDE. I just wanna put the car on the track and have fun. Watching people race at HyperFest this year at Summit Point is all the inspiration I need. The four car wreck was no deterrant.
Suicidal Death Missile
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From: Newport News, Virginia
You don't need a front hoop for HPDE, but you MUST run a 4 point cage. It'd be a better option to at least run a 6 point cage with the roof hoop to encircle the roof. That way, if you roll, the front of the roof has no chance to collapse.
EDIT: In other words, you must use what the pic above has, minus the 4 diagonal bars.
EDIT: In other words, you must use what the pic above has, minus the 4 diagonal bars.
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Originally Posted by Pele
So I don't need a front hoop on HPDE? I don't think Spec Miata's have em. I know the Shelby Cobras didn't...
But those are all lighter than the 7, so I wanted to double check. I'd definately be going for HPDE. I just wanna put the car on the track and have fun. Watching people race at HyperFest this year at Summit Point is all the inspiration I need. The four car wreck was no deterrant.
But those are all lighter than the 7, so I wanted to double check. I'd definately be going for HPDE. I just wanna put the car on the track and have fun. Watching people race at HyperFest this year at Summit Point is all the inspiration I need. The four car wreck was no deterrant.
BTW, spec Miata does indeed require full cages...it's REAL racing.
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Originally Posted by lovintha7
You don't need a front hoop for HPDE, but you MUST run a 4 point cage. It'd be a better option to at least run a 6 point cage with the roof hoop to encircle the roof. That way, if you roll, the front of the roof has no chance to collapse.
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Originally Posted by lovintha7
It'd be a better option to at least run a 6 point cage with the roof hoop to encircle the roof. That way, if you roll, the front of the roof has no chance to collapse.
EDIT: In other words, you must use what the pic above has, minus the 4 diagonal bars.
EDIT: In other words, you must use what the pic above has, minus the 4 diagonal bars.
The car pictured is a very bad example for a road racing argument. That is a drag racing cage and it would never pass tech at a road race track.
