atkins rotary
12-30-04, 03:32 PM
#1
Mmmm Cheeze....
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atkins rotary
On this site http://atkinsrotary.com/store/custom...cat=590&page=1 is this for one rotor or the entire internals. Other than that and the gasket set what else would I need to do a full rebuild.
Also, if I were to go half or possible full bridge, would these work?
Also, if I were to go half or possible full bridge, would these work?
12-30-04, 04:18 PM
#2
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looks like both rotors. I count 12 corner seals....I think that's what i'm looking at....And they should work with a 1/2 bridge, or full bridge, since the bridge is designed around the seals, so the corner seals don't fall out.
What else you need besides the gasket kit depends on the shape of your existing engine components. The side housings should be flat and not worn, the rotor housings can't have flaked chrome...etc.....Cleaning is the most important step in building a rotary. Get a mazda factory manual, and it'll show you how to do the mic, and feeler gauge readings on the housings, rotors, and side plates.
What else you need besides the gasket kit depends on the shape of your existing engine components. The side housings should be flat and not worn, the rotor housings can't have flaked chrome...etc.....Cleaning is the most important step in building a rotary. Get a mazda factory manual, and it'll show you how to do the mic, and feeler gauge readings on the housings, rotors, and side plates.
12-30-04, 04:24 PM
#4
Mmmm Cheeze....
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Oh, and I heard something about reversing the seals on a half bridge so the corner seals don't fall out?!?!? I will search some more but what is up with that?
12-30-04, 04:33 PM
#5
What sucks is I don't see a full 12a overhaul kit on Atkins' site though I'm sure they must have them. They've got a great reputation, and I want to pick up a 12a overhaul kit in the upcoming year for an engine I'm picking up.
On the Rebuild Kits page they only list 13b stuff so you should be careful when you buy the rotor kit that you're getting it for whichever engine you have, the 12a or 13b.
Jon
On the Rebuild Kits page they only list 13b stuff so you should be careful when you buy the rotor kit that you're getting it for whichever engine you have, the 12a or 13b.
Jon
12-31-04, 01:23 AM
#6
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I wouldn't buy a toothbrush from Atkins, but that's just me...
The biggest thing to bear in mind with a rebuild is that there's nothing to be gained by messing with ****. When the book says "25 ft/lbs", torque it to 25 effing ft/lbs. Also, when it says to make sure the seals/springs move freely... MAKE SURE THEY MOVE FREELY! I've got two guesses as to why Atkins motors only last a handful of miles, and the first is they just slap **** together (or so it appears, since I have yet to see an Atkins motor last more than a single session on track). I've rebuilt two motors, one by the book and one trying little **** out. Guess which one makes 110RWHP and isn't fully tuned yet?
Use moly lube on the eccentric shaft and the rotor bearings. This is the one place to differ from what the book tells you - moly will lube the bearing surfaces on startup and should stick around for a while should you lose oil pressure. Crankcase oil will work, but moly is better.
Make sure the plates and rotors are thoroughly cleaned and don't have any crap on them -- you don't want half a june bug floating around in the motor.
The biggest thing to bear in mind with a rebuild is that there's nothing to be gained by messing with ****. When the book says "25 ft/lbs", torque it to 25 effing ft/lbs. Also, when it says to make sure the seals/springs move freely... MAKE SURE THEY MOVE FREELY! I've got two guesses as to why Atkins motors only last a handful of miles, and the first is they just slap **** together (or so it appears, since I have yet to see an Atkins motor last more than a single session on track). I've rebuilt two motors, one by the book and one trying little **** out. Guess which one makes 110RWHP and isn't fully tuned yet?
Use moly lube on the eccentric shaft and the rotor bearings. This is the one place to differ from what the book tells you - moly will lube the bearing surfaces on startup and should stick around for a while should you lose oil pressure. Crankcase oil will work, but moly is better.
Make sure the plates and rotors are thoroughly cleaned and don't have any crap on them -- you don't want half a june bug floating around in the motor.
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12-31-04, 01:41 AM
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Absolutely second the 1st point you made Chris:
Buy a decent torque wrench and USE IT. If it says 25 pounds, neither 20 or 30 is better! It amazes me how many guys think they have a calibrated elbow! Torque specifications are for clean and lightly lubricated bolts, and are based on well researched engineering specifications. Too loose is bad - and sometimes that little extra to keep things together is just as bad, or worse! Guys who build good motors are the ones who understand cleanliness, meticulous preparation, accuracy, and precision.
Buy a decent torque wrench and USE IT. If it says 25 pounds, neither 20 or 30 is better! It amazes me how many guys think they have a calibrated elbow! Torque specifications are for clean and lightly lubricated bolts, and are based on well researched engineering specifications. Too loose is bad - and sometimes that little extra to keep things together is just as bad, or worse! Guys who build good motors are the ones who understand cleanliness, meticulous preparation, accuracy, and precision.
12-31-04, 01:46 AM
#10
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Wow hornbm - you are really strongly opinionated, but don't expect anyone else to be. It's abundantly clear who you think are "good" and "bad", so since everyone knows how you feel about it - why don't you step down off the soapbox and allow some contradictory opinions to be heard. I like to get LOTS of info...................so don't tell anyone else to "quit talking the crap" unless you are prepared to do the same yourself.
12-31-04, 01:56 AM
#11
i agree with them. make sure the torqe specs are on.
as for atkins, i'm know they have the whole kit you need. there web sites not fully set up yet. i was looking for the same thing. if you just give them a call they will let you know what it costs and everything. real nice people to deal with.
heck, i've got a nice 12a built by them runnin 137rwhp. not completly tuned in yet. can't wait till the next dyno day to see if it's tuned better. only have 14,000 miles on it now( a little more than a handfull).
give them a call and see for your self.
as for atkins, i'm know they have the whole kit you need. there web sites not fully set up yet. i was looking for the same thing. if you just give them a call they will let you know what it costs and everything. real nice people to deal with.
heck, i've got a nice 12a built by them runnin 137rwhp. not completly tuned in yet. can't wait till the next dyno day to see if it's tuned better. only have 14,000 miles on it now( a little more than a handfull).
give them a call and see for your self.
12-31-04, 02:06 AM
#12
Atkins has TONS of stuff thats not on their site. I've never had a problem, nor as my friends had a problem with any of their equipment. I have a friend with a Supercharged 13B from Atkins and its been running strong even now. Over 80,000kms on that puppy.
12-31-04, 02:06 AM
#13
FD > FB > FC
Originally Posted by Boswoj
Wow hornbm - you are really strongly opinionated, but don't expect anyone else to be. It's abundantly clear who you think are "good" and "bad", so since everyone knows how you feel about it - why don't you step down off the soapbox and allow some contradictory opinions to be heard. I like to get LOTS of info...................so don't tell anyone else to "quit talking the crap" unless you are prepared to do the same yourself.
I have seen atkins motors run down the race track all day long. They are an excellent builder. If you read christaylors post he obviously has never delt with atkins at all, and further more if a atkins motor only lasted one run down the track, it would be all over the forum.
HMMM thats funny, I doesnt look like there is such a thread.
EDIT: so what exactly was this flammin bag of POO that atkins left on your doorstep. please tell us! WERE ALL LISTENING
12-31-04, 01:10 PM
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calvinpaul
if you need something that you don't see on my web site please call , send us a E-mail or a PM to me and I will tell you how much it is and if I even have it in stock. if I am out of stock on something I usualy have it in a phew days...
as for the engine Specs go word for word by your shop man and you will not have a problem.
Dan Atkins
if you need something that you don't see on my web site please call , send us a E-mail or a PM to me and I will tell you how much it is and if I even have it in stock. if I am out of stock on something I usualy have it in a phew days...
as for the engine Specs go word for word by your shop man and you will not have a problem.
Dan Atkins
Last edited by Atkins Dan; 12-31-04 at 01:13 PM.
12-31-04, 10:17 PM
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My comment had nothing to do with whether Atkins is either good OR bad. My point is that EVERYONE has the right to their opinion, or experience. Everyone does NOT have to agree to ANYTHING in order for it to be posted. Seems you are perfectly willing to post your PERSONAL BS about other Mazda oriented shops, even those that others on this forum have had good experiences with. Different set of rules for you or something? If individual shops feel that comments posted pass the test for slander or unfairly restrict their business, they can handle the legal ramifications themselves. It's good that you have a good relationship with a business, and you feel that you can trust them. You get to vote by spending YOUR dollars where you think they will buy you the most. Everyone else has the same rights, and they have had different experiences than you - some better, some worse. You've said your piece, everyone heard it, now quit your whining.
01-01-05, 12:24 PM
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A little off subject but in responce to some opinions..
If you produce mass amounts of engines, it is pretty hard to reach perfection. If they made many and only ONE engine was bad - that would be one thing, but what is their percentage of problem engines? Probably not too many. There’s always one engine that will give a company a bad rap, but in the overall picture, the majority of their engines are good. If there is a bad one, they do try to correct the situation. It is not only how they build an engine that is important, but also how they deal with problems as well.
There may be some folks that think I may be a constant cheerleader for Atkins. I am giving an honest evaluation of how I have seen them deal with problems. On a personal note, there are some at Atkins that I do not like dealing with or think their customer relation skills could be greatly improved. However, even though one or two who work at Atkins could improve how they deal with the public, most of the staff honestly work to make their engines the best that can be possible, and when issues arise, they deal with them (not only because it is in their best interest, but because they love rotaries).
If the people at Atkins who deal with engines are half as dedicated to their work like the Camden crew (Atkins sister company), then I would most definitely consider having an Atkins-built engine put into my car if I should need to replace it. My personal feelings have nothing to do with how I see them as a reputable engine business overall. This is my opinion which everyone is entitled to express, no matter good or bad.
If you produce mass amounts of engines, it is pretty hard to reach perfection. If they made many and only ONE engine was bad - that would be one thing, but what is their percentage of problem engines? Probably not too many. There’s always one engine that will give a company a bad rap, but in the overall picture, the majority of their engines are good. If there is a bad one, they do try to correct the situation. It is not only how they build an engine that is important, but also how they deal with problems as well.
There may be some folks that think I may be a constant cheerleader for Atkins. I am giving an honest evaluation of how I have seen them deal with problems. On a personal note, there are some at Atkins that I do not like dealing with or think their customer relation skills could be greatly improved. However, even though one or two who work at Atkins could improve how they deal with the public, most of the staff honestly work to make their engines the best that can be possible, and when issues arise, they deal with them (not only because it is in their best interest, but because they love rotaries).
If the people at Atkins who deal with engines are half as dedicated to their work like the Camden crew (Atkins sister company), then I would most definitely consider having an Atkins-built engine put into my car if I should need to replace it. My personal feelings have nothing to do with how I see them as a reputable engine business overall. This is my opinion which everyone is entitled to express, no matter good or bad.
01-02-05, 10:52 AM
#20
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I too have an Atkins rebuild in my vert. I am very happy with it. I was also very happy with the support from Atkins when I needed it.
Here's the thing: The internet is a very powerful tool. And as with any powerful tool, the potential for misuse is high. Let me give you a theoretical scenario.
Buyer X buys a rebuilt from Atkins. Installs it himself, forgets to flush the old oil cooler from the engine that lunched an apex seal in to a thousand tiny pieces of scrap. He then takes the car out and runs the crap out of it. Surprise, surprise, the engine goes south on him. Then he jumps on the internet and trashes the engine builder. Then some other guy on the forum picks up the banner and starts trashing Atkins because of one guys mistake. Next thing you know, a reliable engine builder is getting a bad rep because of one person's mistake.
Now, this can work in reverse too. Such as "Dirty South Rotaries", who were a scam company in TX rebuilding engines. Because of the internet, I am sure there were people who were saved some precious money by learning of them.
The point is, you have to be careful about what you read, and what you post.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Here's the thing: The internet is a very powerful tool. And as with any powerful tool, the potential for misuse is high. Let me give you a theoretical scenario.
Buyer X buys a rebuilt from Atkins. Installs it himself, forgets to flush the old oil cooler from the engine that lunched an apex seal in to a thousand tiny pieces of scrap. He then takes the car out and runs the crap out of it. Surprise, surprise, the engine goes south on him. Then he jumps on the internet and trashes the engine builder. Then some other guy on the forum picks up the banner and starts trashing Atkins because of one guys mistake. Next thing you know, a reliable engine builder is getting a bad rep because of one person's mistake.
Now, this can work in reverse too. Such as "Dirty South Rotaries", who were a scam company in TX rebuilding engines. Because of the internet, I am sure there were people who were saved some precious money by learning of them.
The point is, you have to be careful about what you read, and what you post.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
01-02-05, 11:09 AM
#21
Originally Posted by hanman
I too have an Atkins rebuild in my vert. I am very happy with it. I was also very happy with the support from Atkins when I needed it.
Here's the thing: The internet is a very powerful tool. And as with any powerful tool, the potential for misuse is high. Let me give you a theoretical scenario.
Buyer X buys a rebuilt from Atkins. Installs it himself, forgets to flush the old oil cooler from the engine that lunched an apex seal in to a thousand tiny pieces of scrap. He then takes the car out and runs the crap out of it. Surprise, surprise, the engine goes south on him. Then he jumps on the internet and trashes the engine builder. Then some other guy on the forum picks up the banner and starts trashing Atkins because of one guys mistake. Next thing you know, a reliable engine builder is getting a bad rep because of one person's mistake.
Now, this can work in reverse too. Such as "Dirty South Rotaries", who were a scam company in TX rebuilding engines. Because of the internet, I am sure there were people who were saved some precious money by learning of them.
The point is, you have to be careful about what you read, and what you post.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Here's the thing: The internet is a very powerful tool. And as with any powerful tool, the potential for misuse is high. Let me give you a theoretical scenario.
Buyer X buys a rebuilt from Atkins. Installs it himself, forgets to flush the old oil cooler from the engine that lunched an apex seal in to a thousand tiny pieces of scrap. He then takes the car out and runs the crap out of it. Surprise, surprise, the engine goes south on him. Then he jumps on the internet and trashes the engine builder. Then some other guy on the forum picks up the banner and starts trashing Atkins because of one guys mistake. Next thing you know, a reliable engine builder is getting a bad rep because of one person's mistake.
Now, this can work in reverse too. Such as "Dirty South Rotaries", who were a scam company in TX rebuilding engines. Because of the internet, I am sure there were people who were saved some precious money by learning of them.
The point is, you have to be careful about what you read, and what you post.
Thanks for listening to my rant.
01-02-05, 12:36 PM
#22
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Yeah, you know, I'm always the guy just picking up the ball and running with it. No personal experience whatsoever. I don't even own any RX-7s, all 9 of those things sitting around my shop are made out of cardboard.
Now I remember why I quit posting here a year ago...
Now I remember why I quit posting here a year ago...
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