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Finally going to take my car in for alignment and wanted input if anyone has a similar setup.
New Toyo's will be here on Monday and I have never had this car in for an alignment. SA 7
205/50/16 Proxes R1R
245/45/16 R888R out back
I have camber plates, good shocks, springs and suspension. Finally putting new tires on it as the old ones have been on a long time, even though they look good.
My question. Is anyone running 245's out back and 205's up front.....and what camber/toe settings have you found the best?
I have given a lot of camber, which is not good, and the same for adding too much toe. Just wandering if I should go straight base camber and toe or if anyone has these size tires and what settings they run on the street.
Just cruising on the street. romp through 3-4 gears a few times when I take it out, usually every couple weeks.
Not to many winding roads here in FL. Want to feel confident on sweeping corners, on and off ramps etc.
Do not launch it much, as it will spin through 1st and 2nd, but the new tires should make it hold in 2nd. Probably still will not be launching it much though. Coming out of a 90 degree corner in 2nd and sweepers & on/off ramps are the areas I would most like to see improvement on. Not running a sway bar now, but I have one.
for that i would run a little toe in in the front. Mazda's spec is 0-6mm or 0-0.24" about half of that is good.
to go zero toe usually has the steering feel the best, its responsive. 6mm will feel really stable, its a trade off.
on the street i'd run the camber somewhere around -0.5 to -0.8 or so. the stock setting was +1 so going to -0.5 is actually a big difference, you'll notice a lot more grip in the front. you might actually mark where 0, -0.5 and maybe -1 are and then you can try it out, its easy to adjust.
for caster you want as much as you can get, stock is about 3.5, the more you have the better it will go straight down the freeway.
for that i would run a little toe in in the front. Mazda's spec is 0-6mm or 0-0.24" about half of that is good.
to go zero toe usually has the steering feel the best, its responsive. 6mm will feel really stable, its a trade off.
on the street i'd run the camber somewhere around -0.5 to -0.8 or so. the stock setting was +1 so going to -0.5 is actually a big difference, you'll notice a lot more grip in the front. you might actually mark where 0, -0.5 and maybe -1 are and then you can try it out, its easy to adjust.
for caster you want as much as you can get, stock is about 3.5, the more you have the better it will go straight down the freeway.
Thank you for the advice. Much appreciated.
so, no real difference in setup even though the rims and tires are much larger than factory I assume. Hopefully I will find a shop that will let me back there to mark the camber….or they will if I throw em a few bucks. I set it up for a lot of negative camber once and it was so floaty I barely went 5 miles before turning around. As to caster….. tires came in today. Switching from 205/45/16 to 205/50/16. Looks like I’ll need to back of the caster a little from current setting (the tire is a little towards to front of the wheel well now) as my current caster is set as far as can be w/o tire rub. I did the current alignment myself with string and magnetic angle measure. These new tires feel sticky AF 👍
Well, got it aligned....feels straight but only drove a few miles back home.
Camber is like -0.6, and that is with the camber plates all the way out
Toe is set at just a little toe in, as suggested here and they said that would keep it from following grooves on the road.
Caster is right at 3.0
Will shake it down in a few days after some adjustments.
CLEARANCE
1) Main thing is the front tires are like 1/8 from the spring & lower coil over adjuster (too close for my comfort anyway).------------ Need to raise the ride height 1/4-1/2 in front which should give me a little more clearance there and it needs it anyway with the larger diameter tires. Might need a very small, like 2mm more spacer on the front wheels if really necessary, but I would probably move camber plates in a hair as I know max positive camber is -.06. (have wheel spacers and later gen struts etc...a jambalaya of mods lol)
car was at -1.5 camber going in, so now I have a baseline.
That lower tension rod nuts all the way out to the cotter pin, but wheel is roughly 1/2" forward of center in the wheel well. I know you guys said MAX caster, but these large wheels rub so slightly on the intake boxes I have on either side.
Will need to either make small adjustments to my air boxes or shave some hairs of the rubber on those tension rods, which are new.
If anything, I wanted to get a baseline of how it is now AND let them make sure it is dead on nuts straight. I can adjust camber, caster and ride height fairly easily.
Car felt softer up front/less jarring which is good... going from 45 to 50 on the tires helps absorb the extra weight
every time I drive it there is something more to do.
Keep in mind that Changes in ride height will typically decrease camber a bit and iirc should also decrease toe (moving toward 0 or slight toe out from toe in)
Measure before and after. You have the strings for toe. Smart phones capability to measure angles can be used to roughly measure camber in a pinch.
Adjusted front and rear ride heights today….. added spacers in the rear I already had as the new 245’s are narrower……used a different bolt/washer set up on torsion bar? to take a little caster out/allow for larger tire clearance.
net-net
feels more like a DD, drives straight, comes out of corner straight (no more loosy goosy and grab suddenly trying to spin out)
and took a few mild turns at speed with ease and confidence knowing it has a. Lot more.
Switching from 45 to 50 profile tires up front really helps absorb the v8. Car is even now at 25” front fender wheel well height, and 25.5 in the rear with no one in it and 3/4 tank. Not jacked up in the back like air shocks and front rides like a normal car and steering is on point.
thank you guys for the input.
edit. I still have the old tires if anyone would like a side by side comparison
hello Beastieboy here 1985 five letter. I have alignment problems with caster and camber. under on both. I need wheel bearings replaced first. After that my init align as set has camber 1 degree too low on both front and caster way too low on both with rt. at 2.5 degrees, L 1 degree. Service advisor recommended replacement with coilovers. I dont understand how to adjust caster, the strut tower reconfig. will not give me enough to correct. Where do you adjust caster?
Caster is also adjusted with tension rods, there are 2 nuts that are tightened down and pull the control arm forwards/back.
There is a hard limit to how much you can adjust it because the control arm will contact the cross member if it's tightened too far.
remove the cotter pin from the front bolt on the tension rod and tighten for more caster. do the same number of turns on each side and/or count the threads.
I had to tell the alignment place how to do it, as they had never seen such a thing lol.
its not the clearest picture in the world, but if you follow the written part it makes sense.
the bigger the measurement A is (10.75mm +/-1) the more caster you have. the limit is when the control arm hits the subframe because you've pulled it too far forward.
even if you have no machine, you should still measure this, and if its even you're looking for bent stuff, if its not even the guy before you did something wrong
you can also rotate the strut tops, so this gives you two caster adjustments.
hello Beastieboy here 1985 five letter. I have alignment problems with caster and camber. under on both. I need wheel bearings replaced first. After that my init align as set has camber 1 degree too low on both front and caster way too low on both with rt. at 2.5 degrees, L 1 degree. Service advisor recommended replacement with coilovers. I dont understand how to adjust caster, the strut tower reconfig. will not give me enough to correct. Where do you adjust caster?
I'd go to another shop if that is their recommendation...
Thank you very much. I appreciate you guys and would sell the car without the support you all offer. Yes, the tension rod adjustment will be done and checked for the 10.75 minimum when I replace wheel bearings and will retest alignment again. Another question or concern maybe. I see the strut tower tops are possibly separating and maybe the tower top brace and or the spring retainer ring may be moving. I hear a graunching from the strut tower when maneuvering lock to lock at slow speeds, like something is loose. I know about the bearing failure issue, it is a bearing supporting the shock strut, right? So should I check for that. What would I look for in strut tower support damage or wear? If I decide to do coilovers, I might as well if this all needs servicing, it will be because these are worn or need replaced and servicing should just upgrade too. Anybody replaced towers with mevotech braces? Rockauto. The wheel bearings might be making the noise so I cant diagnose this till they get fixed. sounds like a twangy spring sound popping and graunching. Ideas? I had the lower ball Joints and new RB sway bars and all front and rear bushings replaced with energy suspension pollies about 600 mi ago. Tie rod ends check OK.
sounds like you need to pull the strut out and see what is going on with the tops. bearing is because the strut needs to turn, but the top doesn't.
actually you could try putting some oil in the strut top, if it becomes quiet the bearing was dry
Also, keep in mind that the strut tops were designed for manufacturing tolerances at the factory to be corrected, not for racers to dial in caster and camber for the track. If, after adjusting everything as it should be set, and verifying as best you can that the car has never been in a front end crash - then start with your adjustments using stock hardware components. If you run out of adjustment range and can't get what you want, then you're looking at aftermarket race parts.
I'm using all stock mounts in the front, and it drives wonderfully with almost zero toe, and whatever came for camber and caster from the factory, on 205/50×15.
I'm still fighting alignment problems because my shop won't deviate from their computer instructions. I've replaced front bushings and links and had a RB sway bar installed, shocks look almost new and springs, etc, OK. First alignment showed I needed wheel bearings, replaced those. Now I need to get alignment in spec. The shop says that you Must loosen or take shocks out to adjust caster. They also say that The adjustment on the shock tower is complicated and must be removed to do it. I need a procedure for alignment that has specifics. I also need to know how to install and adjust the alignment bolt /camber plate bolts I bought and do not know where they are used or how. Please help me get thios car aligned! I'm close enough to rotate the shocks to get camber right but I'd rather use these bolts if possible. They want three hours labor to get this in spec. I don't think they are ripping me but their procedure is wrong and does not show how to adjust alignment other that to start with the shock tower adjustment. Can you adjust the tension rod with the struts tight?
Alignments aren't very complicated on an FB -- you only have the front wheels to play around with (unless you've done something aftermarket with the rear -- IRS, crowned axles, etc).
On the front wheels, once I set caster to max, then play around with toe and camber:
Toe -- slight toe-in for street driving, getting closer to zero until it wanders; experiment with toe-out for auto-x
Camber -- slightly negative for street; more negative for road course -- tire temps across the tread will dial it in
I do mine at home with a laser level and an 8' board -- surprisingly accurate, and I can iterate without spending lots of $$. Don't have time to spell out the whole procedure, but you can figure it out with a little ingenuity.
Since this is such a modified car (motor, wheels) you might consider upgrading to a "coil-over" set up. By that I mean adjustable perch, narrower aftermarket springs to match extra front end weight, and camber/castor plate. Then suspension tuning would be a breeze.
I did track my spare parts car for a couple of HPDE events just for kicks. Had RB factory style springs on standard strut. I rotated the top-hat perch for max camber and slotted the factory mount holes rearward for additional camber. Wheel spacers for the 225-13 Hooisers. Then did a real basic alignment to probably zero toe. Worked okay but was limited by the diameter of the stock diameter spring size in the strut bay.
If you slot them both rearward and inward you can get camber and caster. That is what we did with spec7. I think we were able to get about -1deg camber (rules actually limited it to 1-1/4 deg) by moving the tophat all the way to the inside edge of the strut tower. At least that is how I remember it, 20 years after the fact.
03-24-23, 03:59 PM
