speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

FB II, it is a Holley. wouldn't that just affect the idle like you said? if it helps any we did just clean and rebuild the carb, and not to mention sonce the new engine we have used 3 differant carbs, and with the last engine we tried 8 differant carbs. they all did the same thing with the high rpm limiting.

this is what makes me think it is not the carb...... we are not ruling out the carb, but we have just done about everything we can think of with carbs. i kinda wish we could try a webber or something to that nature. i have heard a lot of people say that holleys dont like rotarys, but i dont know, i cant speak from experiance.

i still can belive that this new engine is doing the same thing. we were so certain it had to be the last engine that was causing the problem, and then to find out it must be something with the car even though we tried everything we could think of with the last one...... it's just gets discouraging. what is funny, is that it really should not be hard to fix at all. Considering that there is nothing to this car. you have a carb, an simple stock first gen dizzy hooked up to 2 coils and thats it. no sensors to go bad, no computers to freak out, no nothing.

....... anyways, sorry guys, didnt mean to "vent" on you guys. you guys are giving me some good ideas, just wish some of them didn't cost money to test. :p

FB II

well, yes from personal experience rotaries and holleys are hard to get along with. it can totally be done, and quite easily. but you gotta have the right cfm model. EDELBROCK on the other hand .... i've seen alot of people just slap those on and go. not touching a thing! the way they meter air and fuel it can more adapt to the rotary needs easier. dunno if you've tried one of those or not, but hell. worth a shot.

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

No I have not, the only ones we have tried are Holleys. but like i said, like 8 differant ones. and honestly that is not an over guess. we tried all the way from a 500 2 bbl, to a 800 (i think) 4 bbl. the 800 we WAY to big, it would not even run. anything bigger then a 650 was to much.

keep in mind on this engine we have only tried 3 carbs.


what are the symptoms a Holley gets when not working correctly.

I will see if i can find someone with an edlebrock that wouldent mind loaning it to me for a day.

what CFM Holley do you use? we were trying to stick to the 650, since i know that is what Racing Beat sells.

Kentetsu

When I started using the FC coils in my car, it idled smoother and had a bit more power at the high end. When I added the "transistor trick" to it, the performance went through the roof. Unfortunately, the trick units are not currently available. Until we get a supply figured out, just doing the standard 2nd gen ignition mod should still eliminate any possibilty of weak ignition causing your issues.

FB II

unfortunatley it may not. with carbs like these, especially holleys you need some serious spark. it's ALOT of fuel and air. what works for the stock nikki setup is often not enough when stepping it up. the two holley's i've tried out were both 600cfm. the first was a single pump junk *** carb like RB uses. it was a serious piece of crap. last one i tried was a 4150 model double pumper. again 600cfm. altho, my setup was different as i was forcing boost down this one. difficult to tune, but i'm thinking my motor's low compression had alot to do with that one. if you can, try the edlebrock.

edit: i forgot to mention... on both holley's spark was more than a big issue. especially the double pumper. with the power valve it can dip down way under 10's ... just piiiig rich. you need to get a wide band on there to see what' sgoing on. i dont think a transistor anything is going to give you the spark you need. msd box to the dizzy cap. it worked wonders for my setup, and my air fuels are almost always in the 10's. plugs look normal tho they didnt with the 2gabdcifs stuff.

another reason the edlebrock may work better is going in to the secondaries... ie. high rpms it has a totally different way of metering the air to mix proper fuel. instead of supplying jets and relying on a powervalve to add gobs of fuel, it curculates air thru the metering rods and sets a proper mix. i didnt explain that very well or even all the way correct i'm sure, but in my head i know what it does. lol!! it's definately worth a shot.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Since you have tried different carbs and got the same result, try re-wiring your ignition. Just run a power source to a fog lights relay and to control the relay's low-voltage run a switch. Its worth a try IMHO.


Anyone wanna hear my opinion on Holley's?

mwatson184

NO

It honestly does not sound like a carbie problem to me. Are you sure you have wired up the ignitors/coils correctly? Run through your wiring for us to see if we can point anything out. I know you have checked your trailing for spark, but have you checked the trailing timing? Make sure leading lines up with the yellow mark, and trailing lines up with the red mark. You could have gotten the ignitors backwards and the trailing may be firing before the leading.

-Marques

FB II

yea good point, my car was destroying **** and backfiring like fuuuuck at high rpms when i didnt have enough trailing split

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

thanks guys, i hope to work on it tomrrow, i will try as much as i can.
I will let you all know if i come up with something.

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

well, i have news... not good, not bad.

I tried the FC coil thing and i dont know if i had a bad coil, or if i did something wrong but it was not working. the coil would not fire.

I didnt use the ballast resistor, but that should not matter right?

also I had a friend that was nice enough to let me try his MSD digial 6 plus. I think i wired it wrong because the car ran horible with it. after doing some reading it looks like I might have pluged it in backwords causing it to run 30 degrees advanced.

also wanted to let you kguys know that i did some reading on coils. it seems that the stronger the coil (in volts) the less RPM's that coil is capable of. well i baught the 60,000 volt coils. his would make me think that the problem could be the coils not keeping up.

so i baught 3 new MSD blater 2 coils, that should go well with the new MSD well.


just wanted to give you all an update, like i said, it's not good news, but it's not really bad news yet.



oh and by the way, the new ignition system will contain a MSD Digital 6 plus on Leading, A MSD DIS 2 on trailing (i think this will work, need to check into it) and the 3 MSD Blaster 2 coils. if this does not work, then nothing will. It will be wired as Paul Yaw suggested.

the Digital 6 Plus has he built in 2 stage, start retard, nitrous retard, and is capable of 12,500 RPM's

FB II

you definately must have wired up the msd wrong. if the msd is actually working, and wired properly theres no way in hell it will be worse than stock. hahahaha, BUT... let me get this straight. you are going to run TWO of the msd coils in direct fire style to the leading? then the last coil to the distributor cap for the trailing? this will work, but you have to realize that you are losing power when splitting the msd thru two seperate coils.

here's what i would do:

because of the situation you are in, i would try to keep it simple. For now, JUST wire the msd box to the leading side of the distributor. get a good solid cap, rotor, etc... and trust me this will be PLENTY o POWUHHHH. just use two of the msd blaster coils in their stock setup (altho not laying on their side). if this FIXES the problem, tthheeeeeen mess with using direct fire. this way you don't come in to the situation of "maybe its cause i'm running direct fire..... are both coils firing at the same time?.... where are my legs??? how long have they been missing??" you know... **** like that

i've been in too many ignition situations where i changed things way too much and then didn't know if it still wasn't working because i set it up wrong, or if it's because of other things. so, just passing on a little advice.


good luck! WOOOT!

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

That is accually what i was going to do... Your a smart cookie!


I just figured since i was going to order 2 coils, whats another one???? just saves on shipping later.

thanks again guys, i will let you all know how it goes. I am bringing the car back home today, so this will give me more time to work on it at will rather then having to make a day out of it. (car is at my dads house)

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

welli t appers that my problem has ben the coils all along. after 3 years of this car no running right. (not reving past 6-7k all i had to do was replace the coils.

For future notice to anyone that reads this post in the past. Summit racings 60,000 volt coils are not intended for high RPM's. they will break up. the new MSD coils, and MSD box rev to 9,000 and i am sure more, if i had the rev limiter up more.

thanks everyone for your help.

FB II

can i get a "HELL YEA!"

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

HELL YEAH!!!!


hey guys I have another question.

I WAS going to run those TWO MSD's the digital 6 plus, and the Digital DIS 2.

first one for leading and the second one for trailing.

only problem is that the DIS 2 is a 2 chanal MSD, so i would only be using half of its capablilities, and using it as a one chanal.

what would be the harm in just using the Digital DIS 2? one chanal to run leading, and one chanal to run trailing.

does anyone see a problem with this?..... I dont.

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

congrats on finding a solution! sounds like it was a pain in the *** to find.

FB II

hmmmm, i wouldnt mess around with that dis-2. just run your digital 6 on the leading and stock setup for trailing till you get another digital 6 or equal. i honestly have never seen a dis-2 used on a rotary. hopefully someone with experience on that matter can chime in.

speeddemon32

iTrader: (3)

the friend i got the DIS 2 from has a rotary, but it is a 3rd gen.

anyways, it does not matter, the DIS 2 is for a distributorless ignition system. i did a lot of reading last night. there is no way to hook the magnetic pickup in the dizzy to the MSD. all well, at least i have the digital 6 plus on the leading.

on a side note, the reason i wantt o get a MSD on the trailingis because there is no rev limiter on the trailing, so the trailing is trying to fire faster while the MSD on the leading is trying to stop it. last night i noticed that if i set the rev limiter to 6,000 it WILL still go past this. although if i set the rev limiter to 8000 it will NOT go past it.
its kinda wierd.