Okay so I have been rebuilding my 13b 6port I was mocking everything up and I noticed that the fuel injectors do not sit snug tight in the center section. Should this be cause for concern? Should I just replace the injectors? If so what size should I use 600CC 1200CC? I'm looking to turbo my car in the next few months so I dont want to have to replace my injectors again in a few months if I should upgrade any imput is well apprecaited.

Thanks

 

Just in case, tho full credit must be given to Trochoid (sorry, Trochoid), but in another thread he stated that the GSL-SE's injectors are 680 cc, but you can up the pressure to where they can flow 720. They are also low impedence and work on the 87.5 and earlier S4s.

Are you looking for just a single turbo or dual turbo setup? How much PSI? Notice how I'm throwing out all these questions even tho I haven't the foggiest with turbo setups and matching up injectors? Eh, only way for me to learn, I guess. Tho, I think that the more PSI, more fuel delivery is needed. I'm thinking that a 720 PSI might be good enough for you. Tho, I may be wrong if a guru of turbo'ed rotaries says otherwise.

 

If the injectors aren't seating, make sure the old seals have been removed. Upping the injector size will kill your idle if you plan on running the stock ecu. Your best option would be installing an S4 TII intake, modding it to fit then use either the TII ecu and harness or a standalone.

Running the stock setup, you will need to keep the boost under 5 psi.

 

Ahhh thanks Trochoid I will start the hunt for a TII setup then than you so much for your time. now to get new seals for those darn injectors.

 

not sure what your full plans are here but if you are trying to turbo charge the RE-EGI system that came with the 6-port it is not all that difficult as most would make it seem on the forums. You best be would be to go onto maztrix.com and order (2) of 13-2530-8574 and (2) of 13-2520-8574 (2) 13-2570-N326 - cost you right around $12. the plastic thing that you see inside the center plate is made of plastic and is called an air bleeder. You wont have to worry about this thing being that the new injector seals will seal all this up nicely. Learn from my mistake here very important "When placing the new injector o-rings on ***use vasaline***, this will help seat them into the fuel rail and into the center plate". Another thing I would strongly advice is to get the injectors cleaned and flow tested "you will want to do this weather you want to use the s4 intake or stay with what I am about to explain". You an turbo charge the RE-EGI system with the stock ECU and still boost 5psi safely "I was running at 7psi, without leaning out at all". You will need a Boost dependent FMU (Fuel Management Unit)...you will want to place the unit on the fuel return line. how this works is..the FMU has a boost/vacuum line hook to it which allows it to be set to a desired boost:fuel ratio. My FMU of choice was the Cartech Raising rate FMU, this is adjustable to 1:1 up to 1:12 - Boost:Fuel PSI. What this allows you to accomplish is additional fuel backed up onto the injectors this way when they inject fuel there is more pressure on the back of them to push more fuel through. If you want to add additional injectors to your system such as Bosch 1600cc, when you call for more boost. you can use a Haltech F5 system which is an injector control unit....this thing works the same way so the FMU but controls extra injectors (hence it has a boost signal line to tell when to bring in the additional injectors)

What Trochoid is helping you with is to adapt the s4 turbo intake manifold which will allow you to use your 680cc injectors and also place a set of 1600cc injectors right into the manifold itself. If you do plan to go this way one thing that is failed to be mentioned on this is one you will need to make an adpater to place this on the 85 6-port housings, two would be you will need a injector plug off kit from racingbeat part #18147. Using the s4 intake will make things a little simplier but would not retain the original look of the GSL-SE. You can buy injector bosses from Greddy that would allow you to plumb two injectors into the side of the intake plenum or into the charge pipe before the throttlebody for that addtional fuel you will need for more boost.

Wow, enough typing for now....feel like I should do a write up...if you have further questions let me know, will try to answer them the best I can.

-vern

 

thanks Strickly very much appreaciated help. I plan on running a turbo with the stock setup at about 5-6lbs. Well untill I can afford to get a Haltech and turbo timer but that is very much down the road at this point. but I deffinatly need to replace the rubbers on the fuel injectors and clean them.

 

is there a specific boost:fuel psi ratio that needs to be followed?
i know you need more fuel psi for more boost but how much more?
is there somewhere i could learn this(link/write up)?

i want to run 12-15 lbs on the SE...what cc injector would be needed??
keep in mind i'll have a haltech or megasquirt.

 

You will need 2 Bosch 1600cc injectors.. if you ar running a full stand alone you will not need to be concernd as much with the boost:fuel = air:fuel(a/f)....I am sure if you are going Haltech that you will have already understood that you will *NEED* a wideband o2 to properly tune out the air:fuel ratio...Ideal a/f ratio on a guage is 11 or 12 to play it safe. better intercooling will allow you to lean it out more and and add more bost while stay in the safe zone. I hope you plan on building the motor up before sticky a Haltech on a stock -SE motor to push 12-15lbs. Upgraded Oil system along with making sure the entire cooling system is stable. These are the two main deaths of rotary. Not saying the -SE motor wont hold 12-15 lbs of boost but be sure to take precautions when rebuilding the motor to take boost. New 3mm apex seals with all 93 side and corner seals.... Also heard the rx8 side seals are good but need to be cut to fit

 

While 1600 cc injectors are cheap, they are a bit of overkill. 1000-1200 cc should be enough for 300 hp, if you run 4 injectors. An alternative to the Haltech system is MegaSquirt. Much cheaper and the code is open source which can make tuning more robust. Support for rotarys is growing. Here's the link to the main forum. http://www.msefi.com/index.php

 

im definately upgrading the engine. i know nothing about tuning, to tell you the truth. thats why im asking questions. hopefully i dont annoy the hell out of you guys with these random questions.

so if i wanted to boost more, how would the a/f ratio have to change to compensate for the boost?


would i be able to run the 1600cc injectors and megasquirt without the boost(meaning without the turbo at all)?would it be a better idea to install the injectors,megasquirt and turbo the car all at once?
i mainly want to have the 1600cc inj just so i wont have to upgrade later when i want more hp.300 is fine but my goal is around 400rwhp.

i have to take baby steps to get to 300hp but i want to save myself the trouble of having to upgrade 90% of engine when i want to shoot for 400, if possible.
im in a great bind but i figured the best way to learn is to start doing it.

BTW thx for the link

 

Heren is what I would advice for your HP goals. Sell the 85 6-port motor and grab a S5 (89-91) turbo motor. Rebuild it with 1 peice 2mm apex seals..again use all 93 corner and side seals. This motor has a flat 9.0 compression ratio on the rotor facings verious the 85 13b is 9.4. I am telling the compression ratios simply because witht he high compression it doesnt take as mouch boost to get the HP. When you deal with the 87-88 S4 turbo motors they only have a 8.5 compression...and they have to boost big numbers on these...see the difference. I would not try to make 400hp on an se motor, reason I wouldnt is because the amount of money put in to make it a reliable 400rwhp would by you a nice S5 turbo setup and still have a little room to grow.

As for the 1600 injectors, using haltech you are able to adjust the duty cycle of the injectors so the 1600 will be fine for anything about 250rwhp. I would "not" put the injectors in before turbo. You will have HUGE flooding problems. As it is..after you get the injectors cleaned and flow tested along with replacing the injector seals...you will find you will need to retune the car. You idle will be off..so search for David Lanes Ilde fix on the forums.

never hurts to ask questions.....I am more than glade to give you my advice...which I didnt get much of when I was trying to learn the whole turbo curve.

cheerz
-vern

 

Yes this post has turned into a very good learning session. I had planed on doing some light turboing now. Buy Haltech or Megasquirt and learn a bit about a/f and boost up to about 10psi. Then getting a S5 block and building it up the correct way. so in the end I will have a solid sound block with good fuel manager and a turbo to go up to 15 psi which should put me at about 430rwhp (guestimating). And in the end I learned a little about turbo timing, tuning my own car, and fuel management.

 

well thx stricklyoldskool for the information..im definately gonna save up for that S5 turbo engine.

now i just gotta find someone who'll buy this four port SE motor

 

you have a 4 port 13b? or were you refering to a 6port? I would be enterested in it....shoot me a pm on what you were looking to get out of it. I do have a S5 JDM turbo 13b that I got imported from Japan and never did with. I didnt even clean the motor.....unloaded it and there she sits, maybe we can work something out if you like. let me know.....

-vern