mhonkieys

Hey guys and gals (Gotta be some out there!)

I have an 85 GSL-SE that I am fairly certain has blown an apex seal. I pushed her harder than I should've in a cold morning and I heard a "Pop" after that she runs rough and if I take her over 4-5k rpms she pops.

Anyhow, I'm fairly certain my motor is shot (Doubt she'ed be rebuildable but I have yet to take her apart so who knows.) What I'm asking opinions on is this. I'm looking to do a motor swap and I have considered a few options. Before I lay out my ideas for swaps, I figure its best to give you guys the background on the car.

It is an 85 GSL-SE which currently has a 4-port 1979 cosmo 13b (With a 4BBL) - It was originally a 12a according to my vin. it has a modified racing beat exhaust (Headers to the tail pipe.) racing beat suspension and is a 5 speed swap

As it has been swapped to a 13b already (It looks like good workmanship on the swap.) I figured I might go with a turbo II or a cosmo twin turbo I have also been seriously considering a chevy or ford small block.

The questions I have are these:

1.) Best option for smog

2.) Would the turbo II or later 13b's swap in? I've read they do require an oil pan modification?

3.) Price, from what I'm seeing on ebay/engine puller sites I'm looking at around 2k for a full swap setup (Including uncut harness and tranny.) Would the later transmissions fit? What sort of modification would I be looking at in fitting one? (Shorter drive shaft?) I have manual steering so I'm assuming I shouldn't have fit issues as far as clearing the steering, but, what am I expecting? Also, would I be able to get away with the stock radiator? How is fan clearance? (Too close, too far?)

4.) I can probably find a ford 302 with a t5 for around 600 bucks, but, it requires a lot more shoe horning and modification than I have time for; And of course, It'ed be a shame to not have a rotary in her.


So, this is an open call for opinions, good, bad, silly, what have you. I am going to only have a chance to work on her in the weekends and I don't have any car guy buddies to help out up her so bear in mind if I can't do it than I'm going to have to wait an awful long time to get an extra pair of hands.

'80 GS OO

The 1984 & 1985 GSL-SE came with a 13B 6-port engine.

If your RX-7 is in good shape (or even if it's not), you should stick with a rotary engine. Try to remain loyal to your car's heritage.

A 13B TII seems to be a fairly popular swap. You should be able to use the oil pan and front plate (cover?) from your 13B 4-port for mounting purposes. There are a bunch of guys on the board that can help you with technical stuff.

If your car as the short 3 core radiator, then it should be fine for the task at hand. If your cooling system needs updating, you could opt for an aluminum radiator. If your car has the beehive oil cooler by the oil filter, then you will probably want to upgrade the oil cooling system when doing the engine swap.

Just my .02 cents worth!

mhonkieys

Hrmm, I must admit, I've been only considering the later 13b's for the additional power, I know the different between them and the TII isn't monstrous, but, with the difference in price being so close, why not?

openshot

plz stay with rotary my dad is a muscle car fan and never really like rotarys intill he drove mine and starting to think it was a bad idea that he got me it but oh well. who needs a 13B go mega ported 12A with turbo or supercharger.

mhonkieys

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the rotary, but, I am looking at over all value for cash as well as parts availability, etc. etc.

cmanns

Drop in some sort of rotary engine turbo'd and get it tuned.

Properly warm it before running it hard, change fluids properly.



I'm just waiting till my 12a blows or I have the cash :3

mhonkieys

lol, you're telling me man' I moved up to Northern California from Los Angeles and wasn't used to the cold mornings :/

cmanns

I've never had a issue in the cold, I've never even had my engine flood after being on for 1 min and turned off.

The gsl i just got I need to use choke in the cold (Darn **** screw went bye bye ) but the fc was fine, never would flood

mhonkieys

I should hope not, the FC shouldn't be carb'd.

cmanns

No mine wasnt some carb their fcs but my point was I've driven hard while the engine was cold never had a issue

The guy I bought my rims off of recently kept telling me never drive the car rough till its fully fully warm, something about the different expansion rates of the housings n such, he said something like

Drive it let it warm up be easy and slowly drive rough till its fully warm, he used to work for a mazda shop I guess and all the issues with bad engines was from people just jumping in and pushing the throttle I guess.

but get a 13b -re

z_a_k

i'd say keep it rotary and if it were my car i would put a 4 port 13b back in it (unless you can rebuild yours) turbo'd cars make fun noises but i like n/a much more

just my opinion though

mhonkieys

He is correct, sad bit is, I knew this was the case, I just wasn't used to the climate change/warm up period difference. I jumped on her before I should've and I knew it as soon as it happened.

cmanns

Is yours fuel injected or carb'd?

84stock

iTrader: (5)

383 small block chev all the way!

cmanns

^Please no

mhonkieys

This is a 4-port 13b from a 79 Cosmo, it is a four barrel setup.

thunkrd

iTrader: (1)

427 twin turbo v8.

383 stroker v8

thunkrd

iTrader: (1)

that is the only v8 i will accept in an rx7

i would go for a 13bt then unturbo it, and bridge it then use a power adder

also, try to get a compression tester. check your compression. that should help you to know if its blown.

you may also want to buy some new spark plugs, and replace the fuel filter.

mhonkieys

lol I was drooling over a 20b, but I figured it is too great an option for this man. I'd die of happiness.

thunkrd

iTrader: (1)

a 20b would be great in an fb.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

If your car as the short 3 core radiator, then it should be fine for the task at hand. If your cooling system needs updating, you could opt for an aluminum radiator. If your car has the beehive oil cooler by the oil filter, then you will probably want to upgrade the oil cooling system when doing the engine swap.

Just my .02 cents worth![/QUOTE]

Aluminum radiators are less efficient at cooling. Why would you tell him to do this?

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

So, this is an open call for opinions, good, bad, silly, what have you. I am going to only have a chance to work on her in the weekends and I don't have any car guy buddies to help out up her so bear in mind if I can't do it than I'm going to have to wait an awful long time to get an extra pair of hands.[/QUOTE]

1). SOL or in certain states, you can register as an antique or register in a state that does not have smog testing.
2). Yes
3). Ebay is NOT cheaper. I have bought one of those J-spct engines and the entire thing had to be rebuilt as they have been sitting around for years. So, throw in an additional $2-3k for a rebuild on tip of the engine price, plus the cost of the swap, plus tuning. I have done it before, major $$$$!
4.) Also major overhaul and you are killing what your car is. Get a Miata and throw a V8 in that or just buy a Mustang. Besides, it will be much harder to sell if you want to sell it. So, all the money you put in it, just consider it a loss.

I have been going trough a similiar thought process. I would seriously advise against the turbo option unless you have at least $6k burning a hole in your pocket. If you try to do it yourself, you probably will lose interest or financing half-way through the project and now we all have another dead RX-7 on our hands.

Your car came with a six-port FI engine, so I do not know what is in it now. Try geting a rebuilt original engine that was built to handle boost and once you get it back on the road look into boost if the itch hits you.

Also, as someone mentioned, get a compression test and check your plugs before you start buying engines.

mhonkieys

Yeah, I'm not really in need of boost. I'm currently setup with a 78* (I previously said 79 which is silly.) 4-port cosmo setup which is(was) a nasty little NA setup. I was very _Very_ happy with the setup, when the secondaries opened up no one bothered to mutter "Turbo;" So, boost is not a must.

As for rebuilding, I must admit I've never done a rotary, but, I have built my share of piston engines and would like the experience. As she is not currently my daily driver, I can give her the time I need (Including saving up for the right parts.) I just hate how bloody expensive rotaries can get.

I do believe the radiator is stock to the vehicle.

Per the advice of chat the plugs/compression test. I will need to find someone up here who has a proper rotary compression tester and or this upcoming weekend I'll at least give her a ghetto test (Listen for the PST). One thing I noticed is, all of the proper methods for testing compression demand a warmed up engine. I hate turning her over right now as I imagine shards of metal ripping around the housing and scarring the irons. The last time I drove her any time I went above 5k she would pop like crazy and starting the engine takes a fresh battery and persistence.

I did pull the plugs out last night out of curiosity (I had done so previously to resolve a flooded engine and didn't recall their state.) The plugs don't look that bad, sans a good deal of carbon deposits. I suppose it is worth the price of MMO and some new plugs to give it a shot.

I've also heard of a few other methods of clearing out carbon deposits:

- Injecting ATF into the engine via spark plug holes?

I've heard two different tales with this one, one side screaming amazing results, the other screaming destroyed engine? Opinions?

- Water injection

This is typically done into a vacuum. I was wondering which vacuum is the best to use? (I'm sure there is a thread, links would be sweet.)

Another thing I've been wondering about is the coil is often suspect (Trailing coil as I understand it.) in issues like this, on a piston engine I would check timing chain/dizzy issues by shoving a screw driver into the plug wire, finding a good grounds and checking spark color, I would assume the same should carry over, any advice on checking my coils?

Also, I've noticed that my dizzy has what appears to be two vacuum advances, neither of which have vacuum lines hooked up. I can take pictures if anyone is interested in getting a look.

mhonkieys

You're telling me brother, I'm in California, home of the sad car guy. This is honestly another of the major reasons I am considering a v8 swap. I can pickup a thunder bird or mustang pretty cheap, do a swap over and it might be a damn sight easier to get legal. Although, at this point, it may be worth turning her into a trailer queen. With the current engine, exhaust and tune, I haven't even begun to try and smog the bitch.

mhonkieys

That is sex.