12a BP vs 13B 6port SP?
03-06-11, 10:23 AM
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12a BP vs 13B 6port SP?
heres the dilemma I need a motor for my rx2.
I have a 12a that needs tear down and a rebuild, and a 13b SE motor that also needs a refresh oil control seals are gone on the rear rotor.
So heres the question witch one should i go with.
do a 12a bridge port with a holley 650 on it or 13b 6 port large street port with the same carb. witch would be faster and what all should i worry about other than the standard list of stuff.
I have a 12a that needs tear down and a rebuild, and a 13b SE motor that also needs a refresh oil control seals are gone on the rear rotor.
So heres the question witch one should i go with.
do a 12a bridge port with a holley 650 on it or 13b 6 port large street port with the same carb. witch would be faster and what all should i worry about other than the standard list of stuff.
03-06-11, 11:19 AM
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Well since the engine will be a bridgeport either way, obviously the 13B. It will give you more power and torque, at a very slight weight penalty. Or you could use the plates from the 12A and the housings/rotors/e-shaft from the 13B and build a 4 port 13B. Racing Beat has a Holley manifold for a 4 port 13B as well. This will give you more porting area on the secondaries. The downside is if both engines need a rebuild, you may end up shopping for new housings. I had one of each like you and both had housings with massive amounts of flaking. Wound up using a set of like new used REW housings. Good luck.
03-06-11, 12:04 PM
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since its an rx2 id be tempted by the BP 12A, but plan B is to use the 12A irons and make a 4 port 13B.
03-06-11, 12:55 PM
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well I know the 12a locket up on me if you turned it over it would start and as long as it was warm it would but as soon as it cooled off it would seize up. The 13b came out of my SE it ran decent considering the amount of oil it was going throe has about 160k on that one it is rather amazing when you pull the motor out what you can find like a broken motor mount and tranny mount makes sense as to why there was so much drive train movement.
I was wondering if you could use the 12a irons on a 13b. is there enough porting material that you can take out to make it flow enough to where you would not be starving the of air. There is also a very remote possibility of doing a 13b PP but that would require a new carb most likely a webber 48 or a 51 IDA witch the 51 aren't cheap even used. Plus the cost of getting the rotating assy balanced and everything else.
I was wondering if you could use the 12a irons on a 13b. is there enough porting material that you can take out to make it flow enough to where you would not be starving the of air. There is also a very remote possibility of doing a 13b PP but that would require a new carb most likely a webber 48 or a 51 IDA witch the 51 aren't cheap even used. Plus the cost of getting the rotating assy balanced and everything else.
03-06-11, 01:21 PM
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I was wondering if you could use the 12a irons on a 13b. is there enough porting material that you can take out to make it flow enough to where you would not be starving the of air. There is also a very remote possibility of doing a 13b PP but that would require a new carb most likely a webber 48 or a 51 IDA witch the 51 aren't cheap even used. Plus the cost of getting the rotating assy balanced and everything else.
PP is awesome do it!
you do need a 2 barrel carb, or go EFI. by the time you buy the carb ($500 new) and all the jets and e tubes and air filters and stuff, you will probably spend another $500, and this puts you in the EFI ball park.
with EFI p port, i think you need an ecu that can do sequential injection (with 2 injectors just about anything can), and i think you also need to be able to play with the injection timing, which narrows it down.
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03-06-11, 09:47 PM
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what would be a difference in performance between a 6 port 13b or a 4 port then. Has anyone ever tried on porting away the part that actually separates the 5-6 ports form the rest.
03-07-11, 12:15 PM
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ive heard some pretty outrageous hp claims from an engine like this (over 290), but ive also seen the car run, and it looked like it had more like 90 instead of 290. so maybe the big motor moved to another car, or died or something, or maybe they are full of it...
in e prod, they have to run either a 48IDA weber, or the stock EFI intake, but on the street a 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries might be better, that way the giant ports arent open when you don't need em
03-07-11, 12:35 PM
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that was going to be my next question how high you would need ot rev the dam thing to get power. What i have for a carb is a Holley Double pumper 650 with mechanical secondaries. Trying to keep the budget fairly reasonable because i need a bunch of cash for the rest of the car.
03-07-11, 01:04 PM
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I think what i will do is I have a junk 6 port motor sitting around that needs a tear down. I will take of the irons out of it and take it to work cut the mass out with the bridge port and see how it looks.
03-07-11, 01:12 PM
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yes. some of the E production guys have done it. the ports becomes GIGANTIC. the tq peak moves from 3500rpm-4000rpm stock to over 10k.
ive heard some pretty outrageous hp claims from an engine like this (over 290), but ive also seen the car run, and it looked like it had more like 90 instead of 290. so maybe the big motor moved to another car, or died or something, or maybe they are full of it...
in e prod, they have to run either a 48IDA weber, or the stock EFI intake, but on the street a 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries might be better, that way the giant ports arent open when you don't need em
ive heard some pretty outrageous hp claims from an engine like this (over 290), but ive also seen the car run, and it looked like it had more like 90 instead of 290. so maybe the big motor moved to another car, or died or something, or maybe they are full of it...
in e prod, they have to run either a 48IDA weber, or the stock EFI intake, but on the street a 4 barrel with vacuum secondaries might be better, that way the giant ports arent open when you don't need em
Yupp. The only reason they're not as quick as most of the Mi-Otter guys is simply because of weight, and, the FC is quite a big car IMO.
But yeah, give that six port a healthy port job and put a four barrell on it. I'm a fan of that idea.
03-07-11, 01:53 PM
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03-07-11, 02:21 PM
#17
its supposed to do that
Anything 85' or older bolts together, or 86 and newer. You can't mix and match new with old due to the coolant seal moving from the housing to the iron.
I vote for a 4-port 13b(-se bits, inside 12a irons). I have one with a very large SP and it is a beast. Throw in an rx4 intake and you can use a modded nikki.
Isaac
I vote for a 4-port 13b(-se bits, inside 12a irons). I have one with a very large SP and it is a beast. Throw in an rx4 intake and you can use a modded nikki.
Isaac
03-07-11, 04:39 PM
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nah last time they came up here, they were running lap times that you could run on foot.... or like the same laptimes that my friends wife's FC runs, and it dynos @112rwhp and is 2800lbs!
03-07-11, 05:39 PM
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That's right, he drifts with Kyle now.
03-07-11, 06:15 PM
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Lol. Well, Dave Lemons E-Prod car is fairly quick. (Certainly not up to par with Jesse Prathers Miata, also E-Prod) but, you know what I mean. Not sure you're familiar with either names. Speaking of which, I didn't see Dave at the Runoffs this year.
That's right, he drifts with Kyle now.
That's right, he drifts with Kyle now.
03-07-11, 07:01 PM
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Anything 85' or older bolts together, or 86 and newer. You can't mix and match new with old due to the coolant seal moving from the housing to the iron.
I vote for a 4-port 13b(-se bits, inside 12a irons). I have one with a very large SP and it is a beast. Throw in an rx4 intake and you can use a modded nikki.
Isaac
I vote for a 4-port 13b(-se bits, inside 12a irons). I have one with a very large SP and it is a beast. Throw in an rx4 intake and you can use a modded nikki.
Isaac
If the GSL-SE housings and internals are still good, there is no reason at all not to go with the 4-port 13B. You can still go bridge with that and make even more power than the streetport or 12A bridgeport.
03-07-11, 07:14 PM
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common sense prevails....
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OK, OK.... so will this work???
12a irons, 85 and older 13b housing, any 13b E-shaft, S-5 high compression rotors???? Will this work??
Then do I use a 4 port 13b manifold for a side draft weber???
As you can see.... I am trying to build my dream motor!!!
Also.... please advise from folks who have done this.... Not just dreamers and guessers!!!
12a irons, 85 and older 13b housing, any 13b E-shaft, S-5 high compression rotors???? Will this work??
Then do I use a 4 port 13b manifold for a side draft weber???
As you can see.... I am trying to build my dream motor!!!
Also.... please advise from folks who have done this.... Not just dreamers and guessers!!!
make sure to get the right counter weights.or matching rotation assembly from a automatic so that you can use a lightweight flywheel..