Zukied

Oki just bought this gsl se, 87k original miles, when i picked it up i noticed it had ac delco plugs, so when i got it home and got new plugs pulled the old ones. well to make a long crappy story even worse, the plugs were the wrong ones and were hitting the rotors, the plugs were autolite 3924, there 5.0l mustang plugs. the traiing plugs were both bent all the way down to electrode .000 gap and the tops showed major wear from the the apex smacking it, the leadings were both literally, bent over and off the electrode. i put my borescope down there,the prognosis dosent look to good, looks pretty @$*^$&, the motor sounds ok, runs ok up til 4k after that it dosent seem to want to go any higher. dosent sound to good past 4k either. Now the only good thing that may come of this is the guy i bought the car from just had the plugs replaced 100 miles ago by a reputable auto shop, i have the recipt still saying they put plugs in, i called the guy who put the plugs in, and he refuses to belive that he did anything wrong,and wont pay for it, I just seem to have a cloud hanging over my head. Are there any rotorhead laywers out here that would be willing to atleast listen to my story,I will have to say i dont have much money becasuse i just spent it all on the car , i do have a Rb intake and 465 carb for my 12a, 12a w/40k miles i could use for payment. thanks guys and i hope some one can help!!!!!!!!

Zukied

another quick question, a turbo II motor wont directly drop in will it? what i mean by directly engine mounts,sensors,will i need to just get the ecu flashed, ive read that the fuel injectors were moved from the housing to manifold (im a noob yes) , i just found a good deal on a turbo motor and if it fits im just gonna slam that one in, i know there is a thread for dropping 13b's into a 12a but not the other. thanks

theFBthatcould

wow m sorry to hear that i would defenetly sue the bastard lol

Mr_Efficiency

turbo II = 13B, just with a turbo. The answers are in the threads you were refering to.

Sorry to hear about your motor, good luck with getting anything out of the guy who ruined it on you.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Wait.

You had AC Delco plugs in when you bought it.

You thought they were the wrong ones so you replaced them with Autolite plugs.

The autolite plugs were the ones in question.


IMO it is your fault, if I got the story down right.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Woah now. Wrong info. I suggest you search more on the differences between the 13b and the 13bt.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

No no and no. And no again for good measure. Do some searching.

First gen VS Second gen, the first gen had 2x680 injectors, mounted on the middle iron.

2nd gens had iirc 500cc injectors in the housings, and 2 more injectors in the manifold (unsure of cc).
Mounts are different, First gen has front, 2nd gen has center.
ECU cannot be reflashed.

If by "a thread for dropping 13b's into a 12a but not the other" do you mean dropping a 13b and going with a 12a?

boyee

iTrader: (3)

I think he meant that it had AC Delco wires and Autolite plugs. He discovered the plugs problem when he went to replace those.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

I say you only have a case if the repair bill shows the spark plug part #'s

Zukied

well the bill does say what plug #, and to answer some responses, the plugs that were in it were autolite 3924 (fox body plugs), i replaced them with 9q14's ngk's. the guy said there no way that what he did could have done it, and he went by what the plug calls for, and unless they just changed it that he did everything right. ive been on such a run of bad luck not funny, i get screwed on here for 650$ by ******** joey, 2 days ago my PaPa took out the drivers side of my mint 84 gs, yestrerday the engine problem, so im broke and have 2 screwed cars, fantastic.

bshusted

iTrader: (1)

What I don't understand is how the plugs could even come close to hitting the rotors. Have you ever seen one of these engines torn down? There is like a pin hole for the trailing spark to go though on the housing and a slightly larger hole for the leading. I suppose there is a possibility that the leading ones could get hit, but the electrode would have to stick out quite a bit.



More likely I think is that the threads on the offending plugs were too long and this tightened down onto the electrodes at the end of the hole instead of bottoming out on the "head" of the plug.

Kentetsu

Hmm, I have heard some horror stories associated with the Autolite plugs. Don't know if it was ever proven or not. But if they put the Autolite part number on the receipt, and you can prove that it was the wrong plug and that it did cause damage, then you should have a case in my completely uneducated opinion.

Where in Michigan are you? We could put the plug into a rotor housing and see how it looks easy enough if you are local to me...

.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

There is at least one story one here about a guy who had autolites chip the center off all 6 apex seals since the electrode stuck out too far. I believe he went after autolite for the damages. Let me see if I can dig it up.

I agree that the trailing plugs are not going to hit anything. The hole is only like 1/8". The leading plugs can contact the apex seals if the wrong plugs are used, though.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Here is the one that I was thinking of. I don't know if anything ever happened with it. I thought there was more to this thread or maybe another thread, but I could not find anything.

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=autolite

I have a couple spare housings. I could pick up an autolite plug and take a pic of it in the housing to see if it sticks out.

Zukied

if someone would do that i would so apperciate it, i did notice the little hole for the trailing when i stuck my bore scope down there, and like i said the trailing were just bent over with .000 gap and had signs of the apex smacking the rotor, the leading is what worries me because they were fully bent over to the side, ill get pics of the plugs tonight. thanks guys!

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

Does your borescope show any damage to the apex seals? Or grooved ware on the housings?

If the seals look damaged but the housings look OK, don't run the motor any more until you fix the apexes; the difference between changing out seals only and changing out seals and housings is one crapload of money.

I'm trying to figure out how you got a borescope into the plug chamber; lower plug hole, maybe?

You can examine the apexes through the exhaust manifold openings fairly easily, but seeing the housing surfaces without a teardown takes some fancy optics; borescope with a periscope head, at a minimum.

orion84gsl

iTrader: (5)

If I'm reading your first post correctly, you picked up the car with AC Delco plugs. YOU then put the Autolite plugs in. If that's the case then it's your fault and the shop is not liable. On top of that it wasn't you that sent the car to the shop to have the plugs replaced, it was the previous owner. If he knew there was a problem and didn't tell you about it then your screwed. I don't think the shop could be held liable by you, because you did not have the work done, you did not pay for the work and you did not buy the car from them. The original owner may have had a case, but since he sold the car to you he no longer does.

to answer your title question, your very screwed.

MazdaMiester

iTrader: (1)

Delco plug wires, Not plugs. Its funny how one word being ommitted makes such a difference in its meaning.

Personally, I would go with the guy you bought the car from up to place that put plugs in it. Whatever dingleberry ordered anything other than NGK or Denso plugs with the appropriate part number, thats who is at fault. The people that work at most repair shops are either part replacers, they just do what their told, or they're the ones that tell the replacers what to do. Either way, they effed your motor. I'd definitely pursue this legally.

I bought a '95 Millenia whose former owner had dobbs put a water pump on. I bought the car 4 days after when it was still overheating. After tearing into it I found they not only installed the thermostat sideways(it clock position, which caused it to bind shut) but they broke off a bolt in the block for the water pump and temp fixed it with gobbs and gobbs of RTV. Make a long story short, All this took place before i transfered the title and she took them to court and won the repair bill costs back plus an amount for getting it fixed later, and then some.

They're not gonna cough any cash without a fight. Nobody does these days. If you can prove the plugs ruined the motor(you, and I both know thats probably the case, but try finding a judge that understands a wankel), then you're going to have a lengthy fight over what may end up not being a bunch of money.

I saw some good advice in here though, definitely do not run that engine any longer than you have to.

bwaits

iTrader: (12)

Bingo......Any warranty or liability the shop may have had no longer applies. They are not transferable with the vehicle sale.

-billy

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i just wanted to offer this to those that mentioned (rightfully so) the fact that the trailing hole is not big enough to enable physical contact with the plug. keep in mind though, that i'd rather push my car around town than use anything other than NGKs, so i don't know the dimensions of the Autolite stuff, but here goes:

1. damage can be done to the plug if the threaded portion allows you to torque it down against the housing, essentially squeezing the electrode against the tip.

2. theoretical damage can be done to the engine over time by said pressure being applied to the housing (by the plug) as it goes through it's regular heat cycles. this can alter the peritrochoid shape while the rotor is spinning and possibly damage the rotor apexes and/or apex seals. this theory comes from the Rx-8 board where it is alleged that some people damaged their engines by using FD spark plugs (for those that don't know, Rx-8 plugs are ridiculously expensive and i'd imagine some people used the FD plugs for that reason) apparently the lead plugs are fine to use, but the trailing plugs are too long for the Renesis housing. i have confirmed the difference in length, but obviously, i can't confirm the proposed phenomenon. however, it seemed plausible to me and so i thought i'd mention it.


as far as the issue of legal action, it's an unfortunate and expensive lesson/situation, but i'd be inclined to agree with bwaits' post. however, with this country's legal system, i suppose you never know ...

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like someone tightened the living $%&# out of the trailing plugs, causing the electrodes to bend in against the inner housing and the electrode to poke out. Check the plug hole threads, see if they are stripped or mangled in any way.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

You bought the car as-is with no warranty. It ran apparently just fine when you bought it. That is to say it ran well enough for you to buy it. I assume you took it for a test drive and it was good enough to seal the deal.

Now it no longer runs as well as it used to (or at all?) based on your actions, and you're complaining about it. You've got no case in my opinion. Sorry to ruin your day.

My advice is to man up and "slam" a 13B in there.

80's old school

iTrader: (7)

I have to 100% agree with Orions statement except for one minor detail....

I don't think your very screwed...I think you are fucked...

Zukied

well pay attention ive said it 3 times you guys havent read throuhg the whole thread obviously IT HAD AUTOLITE< I TOOK THEM OUT AND PUT IN NGK OK GET IT? EASY ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND?
And im not worried about the guy who sold me the car, he didnt know its not his fault its the shops fault who put the plugs in, its fine i already talked to a laywer of my friend who strictly deals with auto lawsuits and she says i definitly have a case. it just comes down to what the guys say at the shop they need to talk to there parts supplier that didnt have the right plug and crossed referenced the plug # to this one. So ill update friday when they make there decision, they think there going to find a 6port motor with 80k original miles haha yea right, there gonna be rebuilidng it. , or i go to court and i get a new motor well see.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

I like how you complain about our inattentiveness to details.

It would help a lot on your end to use punctuation and grammar to make it easier for those whom you need help from.