400rwh w/engine & stock turbos(non-seq)
cool.
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Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
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From: Union, NJ
Ernie: Would you believe me if I told you the air temps were rock solid on every dyno run???
Actually they would drop 3-4 degrees Celcius by the end of 4th gear pull......Greddy 3 row for you
I agree about the turbos self-grenading but as far as the engine I'll keep an eye everything.
I monitored everything.....knock, air temps, inj duty...so on
I made over 40 passes on the dyno...mostly 3rd gear pulls...just the last few were 4th gear.
What killed was shitty plugs at the begining....then with used NGK 11 in there it was a roll again.
There's no secrets about my car...nothing special...anyone could duplicate the set up...
My mods have been listed before....here it is again:
Stock motor & turbos (non-seq)
PowerFC ECU w/ datalogit
Greddy 3 row front mount
Greddy PE cat-back
Greddy pulleys
Greddy Elbow(intake)
Crane Hi-6
mid pipe,, down pipe
300m chromoly axles
turboII diff
NGK 11 plugs
EVC IV boost controller...newest addition
I think that's it.........
The rest is tunning.....
Actually they would drop 3-4 degrees Celcius by the end of 4th gear pull......Greddy 3 row for you
I agree about the turbos self-grenading but as far as the engine I'll keep an eye everything.
I monitored everything.....knock, air temps, inj duty...so on
I made over 40 passes on the dyno...mostly 3rd gear pulls...just the last few were 4th gear.
What killed was shitty plugs at the begining....then with used NGK 11 in there it was a roll again.
There's no secrets about my car...nothing special...anyone could duplicate the set up...
My mods have been listed before....here it is again:
Stock motor & turbos (non-seq)
PowerFC ECU w/ datalogit
Greddy 3 row front mount
Greddy PE cat-back
Greddy pulleys
Greddy Elbow(intake)
Crane Hi-6
mid pipe,, down pipe
300m chromoly axles
turboII diff
NGK 11 plugs
EVC IV boost controller...newest addition
I think that's it.........
The rest is tunning.....
Rotary Freak
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: l.a.
how streetable are the 11 plugs. i'd assume they'd foul pretty easy when the engine isn't fully warmed up. how do you guys w/ the full open exhaust keep from getting boost spike/creep w/ the tiny internal wg?
NYC's Loudest FD
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Originally posted by ErnieT
The dyno numbers are very impressive. Same boost I ran with my stock twins to run 11.69, but your mph was 3mph more. As for getting more power by running more boost, your simply going to overspin and overheat the turbo's. They just arn't big enough to make effective power. Your intake charge temps will go soo high, even if you tune to a safe a/f ratio, you'll still detonate. I say be happy with what you have till ya go single turbo. Have fun!
And I understand if you don't list mods or anthing else. I know how much work, R&D, and most of all, money that it takes to get these cars to the edge, just to give it all away.
The dyno numbers are very impressive. Same boost I ran with my stock twins to run 11.69, but your mph was 3mph more. As for getting more power by running more boost, your simply going to overspin and overheat the turbo's. They just arn't big enough to make effective power. Your intake charge temps will go soo high, even if you tune to a safe a/f ratio, you'll still detonate. I say be happy with what you have till ya go single turbo. Have fun!
And I understand if you don't list mods or anthing else. I know how much work, R&D, and most of all, money that it takes to get these cars to the edge, just to give it all away.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 579
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From: Qatar
nice numbers Boostn7 congrats.
no one believed me when i did 360 whp (on stock motor and turbos)with 15 psi but i guess you proved that high whp is possible with the right parts and tuning. great job.
no one believed me when i did 360 whp (on stock motor and turbos)with 15 psi but i guess you proved that high whp is possible with the right parts and tuning. great job.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,541
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From: Abingdon, Md
Originally posted by Boostn7
Ernie: Would you believe me if I told you the air temps were rock solid on every dyno run???
Actually they would drop 3-4 degrees Celcius by the end of 4th gear pull......Greddy 3 row for you
I agree about the turbos self-grenading but as far as the engine I'll keep an eye everything.
I monitored everything.....knock, air temps, inj duty...so on
Ernie: Would you believe me if I told you the air temps were rock solid on every dyno run???
Actually they would drop 3-4 degrees Celcius by the end of 4th gear pull......Greddy 3 row for you
I agree about the turbos self-grenading but as far as the engine I'll keep an eye everything.
I monitored everything.....knock, air temps, inj duty...so on
As for Anthony, I know he ran 19psi, but he also blew the turbos very soon after. Im not saying it can't be done, just with some major reprocutions. Hell, you can put water injection to it and probably pick up some more hp. Good luck...
Lives on the Forum
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,097
Likes: 1
From: southern NJ
John D. a bit off topic, but do you still have anything left from the TII? i was talking to jose yesterday and he said you may have some stuff left. if you do, can you PM me what there is left? thanks
Lives on the Forum
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 5,097
Likes: 1
From: southern NJ
Originally posted by vosko
ok you guys don't know about his "other" FD (i've seen it in person) ...... ummm lets just say it will be a weee bit faster than his full street FD
ok you guys don't know about his "other" FD (i've seen it in person) ...... ummm lets just say it will be a weee bit faster than his full street FD
have not seen it 
almost forgot... GREAT NUMBERS!!!
The Man
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 702
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From: Lee's Summit Mo.
Originally posted by RX794
Ernie, would you believe that I've seen stock FD turbos(As long as they are run in parallel, not sequential) run up to 19psi efficiently, you can even ask AnthonyNYC about it, he's been there, when looking at the intake temps on his car, it was fine, no additional heat, but like I said they have to be run in parallel to work like that, plus I don't know how long they'll last at that level, but the intake temps didn't go up at 19psi on the datalogs on cars with stock turboed parallel setups.
Ernie, would you believe that I've seen stock FD turbos(As long as they are run in parallel, not sequential) run up to 19psi efficiently, you can even ask AnthonyNYC about it, he's been there, when looking at the intake temps on his car, it was fine, no additional heat, but like I said they have to be run in parallel to work like that, plus I don't know how long they'll last at that level, but the intake temps didn't go up at 19psi on the datalogs on cars with stock turboed parallel setups.
Just curious, what makes the turbo's in parallel operate differently than the stock sequential setup after switchover? My understanding is that the turbos operate in parallel after switchover anyway. Or is it simply that the removal of the extraneous flappers and doors that allow for more exhaust flow to spin the turbos to 19psi? Just wondering where the difference comes in to spin the turbos to 19. How would running parallel afford the ability to run that high over the sequential setup? Not flaming, I'm just trying to see the difference.
Art
NYC's Loudest FD
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Originally posted by RTS3GEN
Rx794,
Just curious, what makes the turbo's in parallel operate differently than the stock sequential setup after switchover? My understanding is that the turbos operate in parallel after switchover anyway. Or is it simply that the removal of the extraneous flappers and doors that allow for more exhaust flow to spin the turbos to 19psi? Just wondering where the difference comes in to spin the turbos to 19. How would running parallel afford the ability to run that high over the sequential setup? Not flaming, I'm just trying to see the difference.
Art
Rx794,
Just curious, what makes the turbo's in parallel operate differently than the stock sequential setup after switchover? My understanding is that the turbos operate in parallel after switchover anyway. Or is it simply that the removal of the extraneous flappers and doors that allow for more exhaust flow to spin the turbos to 19psi? Just wondering where the difference comes in to spin the turbos to 19. How would running parallel afford the ability to run that high over the sequential setup? Not flaming, I'm just trying to see the difference.
Art
NYC's Loudest FD
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Originally posted by ErnieT
I believe you, but I think if you start running 19psi on the dyno 40 times, your not going to be too happy.
As for Anthony, I know he ran 19psi, but he also blew the turbos very soon after. Im not saying it can't be done, just with some major reprocutions. Hell, you can put water injection to it and probably pick up some more hp. Good luck...
I believe you, but I think if you start running 19psi on the dyno 40 times, your not going to be too happy.
As for Anthony, I know he ran 19psi, but he also blew the turbos very soon after. Im not saying it can't be done, just with some major reprocutions. Hell, you can put water injection to it and probably pick up some more hp. Good luck...
The Man
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 702
Likes: 0
From: Lee's Summit Mo.
Originally posted by RX794
It's because of the flaps, when you take out all the flaps of the sequential system that are controlled by actuators out of the exhaust manifold there's less restriction allowing better flow. Some people run the parallel system by sticking the flaps open(by the actuators), the right way to do this is by removing the flaps all together. That's how they flow better, but only if done in that way.
It's because of the flaps, when you take out all the flaps of the sequential system that are controlled by actuators out of the exhaust manifold there's less restriction allowing better flow. Some people run the parallel system by sticking the flaps open(by the actuators), the right way to do this is by removing the flaps all together. That's how they flow better, but only if done in that way.
Art
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 896
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From: CA
Originally posted by Boostn7
My mods have been listed before....here it is again:
Stock motor & turbos (non-seq)
PowerFC ECU w/ datalogit
Greddy 3 row front mount
Greddy PE cat-back
Greddy pulleys
Greddy Elbow(intake)
Crane Hi-6
mid pipe,, down pipe
300m chromoly axles
turboII diff
NGK 11 plugs
EVC IV boost controller...newest addition
I think that's it.........
The rest is tunning.....
My mods have been listed before....here it is again:
Stock motor & turbos (non-seq)
PowerFC ECU w/ datalogit
Greddy 3 row front mount
Greddy PE cat-back
Greddy pulleys
Greddy Elbow(intake)
Crane Hi-6
mid pipe,, down pipe
300m chromoly axles
turboII diff
NGK 11 plugs
EVC IV boost controller...newest addition
I think that's it.........
The rest is tunning.....
Danny
Congrats on your numbers John! Right after you guys left the dyno Jose called me and told me the great news! Man, I am sure you must be happy.
It's funny cause one of my forum friends in VA called me to ask me if I heard about your car!
I am sure you are ready for the 10s!
Damn, you are making me second guess my decision when I went Haltech, maybe I shoulda went with a PFC instead.
I can't wait to see your car head down the track!
If you run 10s, and I'm sure you will, you will make a lot of guys that spend 5-15K to go single w/ fuel management look like they made a big mistake. But you will then save the rest of guys a lot of money since they can now mimic your setup.
Good luck.
BTW, the stock twins will handle the boost. RX94 was correct when he stated I sold the same twins to our friend Rick. He still has them in his car today and no oil leaks! They held up for over a season and a half on high boost. I did have 2 blow off valves to minmize any back spool. Dunno if that helped.
Anthony
It's funny cause one of my forum friends in VA called me to ask me if I heard about your car!
I am sure you are ready for the 10s!
Damn, you are making me second guess my decision when I went Haltech, maybe I shoulda went with a PFC
instead.I can't wait to see your car head down the track!
If you run 10s, and I'm sure you will, you will make a lot of guys that spend 5-15K to go single w/ fuel management look like they made a big mistake. But you will then save the rest of guys a lot of money since they can now mimic your setup.
Good luck.
BTW, the stock twins will handle the boost. RX94 was correct when he stated I sold the same twins to our friend Rick. He still has them in his car today and no oil leaks! They held up for over a season and a half on high boost. I did have 2 blow off valves to minmize any back spool. Dunno if that helped.
Anthony
Thread Starter
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 867
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From: Union, NJ
RX7Elmo: I run a Walbro 255hp intank pump. I was skeptic when I removed the FD one to replace it with a smaller one. But so far A/Fs are rich to redline.
Regulator and fuel filter are stock.
Anthony: Thanks dude
I am happy and your car was the one that made me believe it was possible.
When I first purchased the PowerFC I never knew what it was capable of.....now I don't stop playing with it.
The guys with single turbos have greater potential......I'm simply at the limit of things.
Thanks guys....
Regulator and fuel filter are stock.
Anthony: Thanks dude
I am happy and your car was the one that made me believe it was possible.
When I first purchased the PowerFC I never knew what it was capable of.....now I don't stop playing with it.
The guys with single turbos have greater potential......I'm simply at the limit of things.
Thanks guys....
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
Likes: 0
From: Tejas
congrats on the numbers. that is HUGE! great tuning job...great car.
there are a lot of guys on the forums running similar setups..nobody even approaches those numbers. Even guys with their pfcs tuned on the xs dyno arent pulling numbers like that? why is this?
the dyno sheet...while it looks non-sequential..why do i not see the power trail off like i would on any other sheet from a stock motor? (maybe Im hallucinating...but should there not be less power at 7k than say 6500 on a stock port 13b?
Im sleepy...so if Im wrong...I apologise.
As far as running the stockers at 19psi...YIKES...sure one or two guys might have done it...but out of the hundreds of turbos that go bad on this forum, the majority that go out prematurely are from running them at high boost. Ive opened up my set after running them at 14psi for six months and the wheels were black and brittle....pieces were simply chipping off and you could see the damage caused by the heat.
all the turbo builders know this as well....you cant dispell the data with one success story.
not trying to take anything away from you all but everyone knows that that set cranks high heat once you get out of its efficiency range. your car seems to be the exception. congrats!
(someone above said that they were in their efficiency range...yet they didnt know how long they would last at that boost level) ...Ill answer that...for most of us...they wouldnt last long at all. tis why all the guys are going with the more efficient upgraded twins from bnr or m2....or single for that matter.
Id be curious to see if you could duplicate those numbers on a different dyno. (the bnr set dynoed 460rwhp at one point and they dynoed on a different dyno and pulled 412)
again...great job on the tuning. fantastic work!
j
there are a lot of guys on the forums running similar setups..nobody even approaches those numbers. Even guys with their pfcs tuned on the xs dyno arent pulling numbers like that? why is this?
the dyno sheet...while it looks non-sequential..why do i not see the power trail off like i would on any other sheet from a stock motor? (maybe Im hallucinating...but should there not be less power at 7k than say 6500 on a stock port 13b?
Im sleepy...so if Im wrong...I apologise.
As far as running the stockers at 19psi...YIKES...sure one or two guys might have done it...but out of the hundreds of turbos that go bad on this forum, the majority that go out prematurely are from running them at high boost. Ive opened up my set after running them at 14psi for six months and the wheels were black and brittle....pieces were simply chipping off and you could see the damage caused by the heat.
all the turbo builders know this as well....you cant dispell the data with one success story.
not trying to take anything away from you all but everyone knows that that set cranks high heat once you get out of its efficiency range. your car seems to be the exception. congrats!
(someone above said that they were in their efficiency range...yet they didnt know how long they would last at that boost level) ...Ill answer that...for most of us...they wouldnt last long at all. tis why all the guys are going with the more efficient upgraded twins from bnr or m2....or single for that matter.
Id be curious to see if you could duplicate those numbers on a different dyno. (the bnr set dynoed 460rwhp at one point and they dynoed on a different dyno and pulled 412)
again...great job on the tuning. fantastic work!
j
Last edited by artguy; Jan 27, 2003 at 10:11 AM.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,014
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From: CT
alot of people have opinions on how the stock turbos dont last with 15psi or greater....i havent seen any "proof" that running this psi is bad. I hear people say their turbos went bad with 12 psi and with 15 psi....i am not buying the 15 psi rule...i will be running15 psi this summer.
matt
matt