ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

My front left hub/wheel-bearing/suspension area has been making an annoying ticking sound during turn-in. Its most abrupt on lowers speed, high steering angles and gets louder with more angle. It also ticks faster with speed. This all sounds distinctively like a bad bearing however Ive changed the bearing TWICE in the last year to cancel out the possibility of installing a faulty bearing from Mazda. Funny thing is that the noise became less however its still obviously present. Im tightening the **** out of the main lock nut also (with a breaker bar not a impact gun). There is nothing rubbing or nothing lose.

Ive experience a bad ball-joint before and it presented nothing like this, but could it? This has been going on for almost 2 years without much change.
Open to recommendations.


Thanks

DC5Daniel

iTrader: (10)

We don't know what car you're driving, you're posting in the general suspension thread so you need to specify.

Can't speak for the other generations, but if this is an FC or if the bearings are similar, tightening the **** out of the spindle nut is your problem and is trashing the new bearings.

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Its an FD.

I am tightening the hub nut hard enough to get the original punch-lock location in the groove. Always assumed these things need to be torqued ~200ft lbs which is pretty snug.

Cobranut

You should be using a new nut whenever you replace the bearing, and get yourself a good torque wrench.
Trying to guess by using the original punch position ignores any differences in the new vs the old bearing.
The FD uses sealed bearings, not tapered rollers, which has saved you from catastrophe, but you can still overstress the spindle and cause it to fail.

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

jack the front up.
push the wheel in and out in the 12 and 6 o clock position
do the same in the 3 and 9 o clock position.
Try it with the steering wheel locked and unlocked so you can check full movement of the steering, but also locked so you can check where you have unwanted movement in steering, ball joints, bushings, bearings, and tie rods.

You can also look at the top of the strut while you lift and lower the car to see if the tophad has issues.

Narrow down your problems, fiz anything you find bad, and recheck after. Our cars are old and you could have a combo of problems

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

^I typically check the mentioned points always before track days and act accordingly if there is any play. Last I checked, it was all tight yet it was making the sound. My ohlin top hats are fine. I drove the car couple weeks ago and the problem is getting worse. Its alarming how loud it is.

My passenger side wheel bearing has never been replaced by me and it is now making the EXACT SAME SOUND. Its a loud creaking/ticking sound when turning/loading. I can make a slow U-turn and itll make the sound but at a different rate. It started off making occasional ticking sounds while turn with high load. Now it happens easily. This means its not because I overtightening the hub nut.

My drivers side wheel bearing has less than 1K miles. Maybe the OEM bearings cant take the forces exerted during track days with wide sticky tires?

GrossPolluter

iTrader: (1)

I jack the car up and down and look at the top bearing/ bushing. Doesn't hurt to double check each bolt. Take a pry bar to every bushing, big channel locks on every ball joint. Sway bar bolts, end links?

The worst diagnosis was when it came down to expensive 2 way suspension. The customer did not want to believe he spent that much money and narrowing down shock noise. 90% of the time someone did not install or stack the tophat/ camber plate correctly

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Changed the bearing again, torqued to the specific Mazda spec. Checked all the bushings which are all tight. Noise is still present. Interestingly, it got less pronounced immediately after replacing the bearing but slowly came back after a few miles and its ALARMINGLY LOUD. Bilaterally the same.

My swaybar endlinks are original and a little loose but the noise I am hearing is relevant to wheel rotation. Its a very repetitive, consistent noise relevant to how fast the wheel is spinning. Therefore I dont think its the end-links which would make a more random ticking/clicking sound...BUT I am changing them later today.

I took it to a local shop and we all are scratching our heads. I can reproduce the noise by simply driving in a circle with the wheel fully locked. Noise does NOT stop if I turn while pressing the brakes. From the outside it sounds like its coming from the brakes though. We cant replicate with the car in the air and preload added to the suspension. Wheel spins freely. Im going to order new pads for the hell of it and shims (If anyone knows where I can find brake shims for the old M2 AP racing BBK CP5200 calipers please let me know). I would consider the pads sticking to the rotors and causing the ticking however it doesnt stop if I press the brakes.

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

Just brainstorming here....
Are your rotors the floating ring type with the spring type fasteners fixing the rotor ring to the hat?

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

Stole the photo from your track thread.
I know it sounds like a long shot, but I think it might be possible the noise may be coming from the rotor fasteners.
It's the only other thing that could be affected by loading while turning.
Have you checked the inside of the wheel for wheel weights that may just be nicking the caliper ?
Hope this helps...

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Rotors are the floating type. I did check the rotor and caliper and did not see anything suspicious. Since I cant reproduce the noise without driving its hard to pinpoint a location and analyze it in detail. The issue may be right under my nose and I am missing completely. I suppose it wouldnt hurt re-torque the rotors to the hats. The weights clear the brakes easily. Since the noise has gotten louder over the past year or so, I dont think its anything rubbing/touching as usually the materials wear away and the noise fades.. kind of like fender lines.

Ill try to make a video and post it. This shyte is keeping me up at night.

Cobranut

Is it possible you have a cracked wheel? It sounds like you've tried almost everything else. Maybe a fine crack is moving a bit under side loading causing the creaking.

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

Sorry I conveniently forgot that the problem increased in severity with time.

^
I have seen this first hand on a multi spoke wheel (like 10 or 12 spoke) and one spoke had a barely visible hairline fracture

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Just checked my front wheels thoroughly hoping to find a crack.. But its all solid. For a second there it made sense for the prob to be my wheels.

Since I dont gave my passenger side fender liner, Im going to try to fab some kind of mount for my gopro and see if it reveals anything.

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

Thanks for the videos. So would you say that the microphone is picking up the sound from both sides, or mainly just the side that its mounted?
That is quite loud, more than I expected.
Does it only occur when you get near to full lock?
Doesn't sound like a bearing noise to me.

If you have the wheels turned, and you are making the noise, what exactly happens if you keep the wheel in the same position, and then slowly bring the speed down and come to a stop?
does the noise quiet down but continue until car is at rest ?

or does the noise just drop out completely when your speed goes lower than a certain point?

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

I would say the mic is only picking up the passenger side noise.

If I am going slow, say during a U-turn it will only make the sound when the wheel is fully locked. It ticks at the same decibel but the frequency of the tick/noise changes with speed. So at full lock, it will tick slower until I stop. Just like when we were kids and clipped playing cards against the wheel spokes on our bicycles.

When I am driving fast, say in the twisty canyons, it will produce the noise with much less steering angle.

Its funny how after I changed the bearing on the driver side the noise went away but came back. Sometimes it wont make the noise for a few moments but it almost always (90% of the time) makes this sound on both sides regardless.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Can you try 1 piece rotors? Maybe switch back to stock front brakes for a test? Does it still do it with the brake applied?

Are the abs tone rings hitting the sensors?

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

All I can think is to check for a point of contact or touching again.

If it were a bearing that was able to cause that noise, which I've never heard like that before, then it would also cause loud roar sound at speed.

Got to be something that is rotating, touching something that is not rotating.
And varying based on side loading.
Since I doubt that it would be a bearing,
it's not coming from the wheel itself,
it's not coming from the wheel touching something or else you would not be able to make it do with less steering angle.

I did some research on the AP racing setup you have and couldn't get a satisfactory answer for myself. Seems they offer both options of fasteners for the rotor ring to hat. One is a simple bolt and nut setup. So the ring and hat are basically solid to each other. And the other uses a set of spring washers with the bolts and nuts so that when the fasteners are tightened, the disc can still move relative to the hat. Like there is some play between the two. My Brembo GT kit is like this.

I'm suspecting that you might have some front rotor runout that is either moving the disc separate from the hat, or is moving the pad back and forth a little bit but the pad moving seems unlikely because hitting the brakes doesn't change it.

Good luck with your search, I'll keep thinking over it

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

One of my plans is to get my hands on OEM brakes and swap one side for a test. There is no way I can get a 1-piece rotor for my current bbk. The noise persists with some brake pressure applied. Its kind of hard to test with firm pressure since the car just stops.

Ill be going to the Ferrari Marque event tomorrow morning in Woodland hills BTW. If you make up ill happily drive the car around in circles and see if you have any thoughts lol





Appreciate you helping out man, really.

I also think its something with the brakes...but not sure what exactly. If the rotor was warped, I should feel it in the steering also which I dont in this case, however if the pads are moving around that wouldnt cause any vibration in my steering. Im going to torque my fastners down to 200lbs and see if it at least changes anything.

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

No problem man, I'm a mechanic so sometimes I spend good portions of a day trying to track down things like this...

You are going to check the rotor fastener torque? What is that number 200 ftlbs??? Lol

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

200 inch-lbs** lol good catch there. Typo on my part.

Mechanics such as yourself are what make forums like this valuable. Glad I created an interesting case for you

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Don't be so sure that you can feel an out of spec rotor. I could not feel this in the pedal. Check the runout on the rotors next time you have the wheels off. I really think this is brake related.

48E2604D-657E-4F7C-92C2-3D0A8BA955AD_zpssz3ujhfl.mp4 Video by largeorangefont | Photobucket

ArmenMAxx

iTrader: (21)

Your right. Ive narrowed it down to the brakes. Its definitely coming from the caliper area. While touching the caliper with my finger, I could feel the click as the car was slowly rolling.

Not sure if its a thickness issue or diameter issue. I could try to resurface the rotor even tho its slotted, or trim the clips that may be touching when flexing. I wonder if its the slots that are causing the distinct click sound, the noise pattern kind of follows the slots. I cant see any visible wear on the outside of the rotor.

Whats weird is that the noise has gotten worse over time. Perhaps as the bearing develops slight play over time.

LargeOrangeFont

iTrader: (7)

Pull the guide pins, and pads, check everything for wear. Are the sided of the pads rubbing against the caliper? does the pad move around as it sits in the caliper? Are the guidepins or the pad oles for them worn? Maybe a wear indicator on the pad is hitting some of the rotor had hardware?

Check the rotor runout with a dial indicator. The rotor may be moving the pads around on the guidepins or making them hit the caliper if there is any play.