I have read about the vw rack swap. I have heard that there other options out there.

anyone know if the toyota rack mentioned in : rack and pinion work?

Are there others? or is the vw the cheapest costing around?

I am thinking of doing this job since I am also doing the tII swap. I figure why not go all out, right?

 

only if you really hate the way it steers now. i personally have no complaints with the stock steering.

 

well the thing is..

1. I am poor.
2. I remember allmost looseing control at +85 mph.
3. I just want to be in controll of the next movement my car makes.


so its safe to say that my car's current stearing is just not good enough, I am gearing my car up to go really fast.. I have a family to think about, I want to control where the car goes and don't want to spend alot doing it. Especially when there are cheap options out there. I can see spending some time and a few pennies to get solid stearing.. I hate "my wonder stearing" just like some smart guy once wrote.

 

I believe CP racing is using a modified vw rack and pinion, just don't buy anthing from them..

 

I have the CP rack and LOVE it. But it looks like CP's service has gotten much worse and the price has gone up by $250 since I bought mine. What they did isn't especially complicated and I would think anyone with decent fabrication skills could make up the same frame and bracket.

It's been mentioned on the board before, the VW rack is simialr to the Dodge Omni rack, which also came in a faster ratio version.

I'd look to www.flamingriver.com or some place similar for a new rack, joints, shafts, knuckles and other misc parts.

 

there was a write up on how to tighten up the first gen steering..just can't recall the thread,but if I've read about it ,it's in here..lol,,'cause I do read alot of this stuff..It had to do with the gear in the steering box..sorry I can't give you any more guys

 

gooo second gen subframe swap!!! i love it. and if your going t2 it will bolt right in!!!!






thats all i have to say

Paul

 

DONT try and tighten the steering box. Sure that may work for a little while. The adjustments are only really for factory adjustments. If you have to make adjustments, then something is worn out. And if something is worn out and u adjust it then your just going to be putting undue strain on bearings and what not.

 

this may be true, but who wants to spend the 500-900 (depending on year) on a new steering box??? I dropped about 900 on my car from my taxes and bought a whole lot cooler stuff than a steering box.

 

The VW rack sucks and I don't know why CP or anyone else uses it. A EF civic or crx would be such a better rack to use. and quaffe makes a quick ratio replacement for the EF rack 2.89 turns lock to lock. How sick would that be. Just my thoughts. Why use a rack from an okay handleing car when you can use one from an amazing handleing car...

 

Before re-engineering your stock steering, look at the entire steering system. The steering box is one component of many that may have wear and play.

A lot of loose steering complaints can be solved by looking at the front suspension and steering components as a complete system. We all have 20+ year old cars with high miles, and they have wear and tear on them. If you have the slightest amount of play in these components, together they will make up significant play in your steering. Plus, your alignment might be off.

My 85 GS felt dangerous to drive at higher speeds. I took apart just about everything and replaced components that reflected wear; wheel bearings, a couple tie rod ends, tension rod bushings, a ball joint, idler arm bushings, the strut plates, etc. Then I had a professional alignment done. Now the car is rock solid as fast as I want to take it, both on smooth and bumpy roads.

I had the same experience with my old RX7 race car.

Sure, the stock steering doesn't feel as good as a contemporary rack and pinion setup. It has its limitations. But, SCCA guys race the stock steering (granted with solid or urethane mushings) at speeds much higher than you will on the street, and seem to manage quite well.

 

Quaffe also makes quick ratio replacement parts for the VW rack.

http://www.quaifeamerica.com/suspension/suspension.htm

There are also quick ratio versions of the Omni rack.

 

I've seen many members make the arguement that the stock steering, when tightened up, is good enough. I can't disagree that the stock steering is adequate and works fine. I drove the car that way for many years. It can be successfully tightened, by the way. If done right it will stay tight for several thousand miles before needing it again. You should check all the bushings in the linkages as well, though, as mentioned above.

But a good communicative steering system adds a new dimension to this car. The information that comes through the steering with the R&P is like a telegraph connected to your hands. The stock system doesn't compare and that's why you should get a rack and pinion system.

 

I want to change out the stearing system. I don't want to decide to make adjustments to something that will soon be makeing adjustments to again. I went to the yard this morning and pulled a rack out of a '83 VW.. something. I don't know what it was. I got it for 30 buks. Now I guess I jsut have to get neopren rubbers for the rest of the stock system that will be left on the car. In the city where I live there are lots of machine shops so getting on to make a part or madify a part for me will be easy.

This is just going to have to be put on hold cus I have other issues with the car that need attention.

Anyone have luck with bone yard racks from hondas or toyotas?

 

the hondas R&P sounds the best. someone should see about getting that to work. or why doesnt someone with a CP kit let someone copy it?

 

can someone post a pic of the cp vw rack and pinion with the brakets?

I jstu finished takeing out the engine. Now I jsut have to prep up the engine bay.

 

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=93662

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=93659

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=85204

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=85203

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=85202

That's the frame version that blocks the oil drain plug.

 

There was talk about finding an alternate rack, but as I recall, the difference is where the rack connects to the hub/strut assembly.

Most cars use "front steer" where the rack connects to the front part of the hub/strut assembly, whereas our cars (and the vw I'd assume) use rear steer, steering from behind the wheels.

The difference is significant enough that it would be a pain to make a civic rack (for example) work in our cars.

see here:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=steer

I'd like to see someone more reliable replicate what CP has done. When they first came out, they mentioned that the Golf GTI had a rack with a better ratio that you could get, but I haven't heard from it since.

If we could have a CP-like setup with a better ratio rack, I think that would rock.

Jon

 

someone with some fabrication skills, tools, and time needs to get ahold of one of the new CP kits and copy it. it doesnt seem too hard to accomplish. i want a R&P kit bad but i wont deal with CP, esspecially at their price.

 

There are other reasons besides "rear steer" that I am learning why CP Racing went with the VW rack.

For one - good luck finding a manual rear steer rack besides VW. Most cars are now made with power steering - even small inexpensive cars. VW made their cars manual steering into the 90's. The CP Racing kit uses a VW Mk2 rack, btw. That's Golf, Jetta, Scirocco, etc from 85-91. It's very different from the "rabbit rack" that you guys talk about. The parts are very readily available for the VW racks - any junkyard would have a couple, and there's a good chance you can find a manual steering one, that came on diesel golfs.

Now in my searches I found some other cars--- like the Toyota Tercell, that were manual rear steer. However, every other car with that setup, has a wierd proprietary mounting system that would be difficult to mount.

Another thing, is that VW's are great handling cars. I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say they are horrible. I have driven both golfs and sciroccos and they handle very very well. The other thing to mention is that for the most part - a rack is a rack - the other parts of the suspension system dictate more than the rack does how the car handles.

 

CP Kit

 

thanks for the pics.. thats exactly what I need to get started. I have plenty of wasted time that will now be occupied. thanks to the fact that you got a motor mount I can get measurements from that. I only see a problem makeing the angle of the part that holds the rack to the base of the frame. Which should be easy once a working model is made. I was thinking of make one out of wood and then getting some aluminum stock and then finaly some steal stock.

Can someone think of a way to do the tie rod ends?



Is this the same rack and pinion..?

 

I'll take some more pics of the bottom this Sat when i work on the car.

 

I don't think anyone said they were horrible. I said they are not as good as hondas. I Have owned a Mark 1 and 2 scirocco and a mark 2 Jetta gli with about 6 grand into it. And I've owned EF civics and crx's and know that my modded jetta and scirocco's didn't handle as well as the EF civic stock... And the quaife quick steer is much quicker for the honda then the mk1&2 vw's.
QUAIFE QSR Quick-Ratio Rack and Pinion Kits LTL Part Number List
Honda Civic, 1988-91 LHD NEW 2.83 60.435.010K $239.00

VW Golf Mk1/Mk2 rack and pinion kits, LHD 2.9 -3.1 10.435.001-003 295.00

 

I'm sure I don't have to explain that turns, LTL, and steering ratio are two different things.