3rd Gen Rx7 FD to AWD conversion?
08-04-01, 10:29 PM
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3rd Gen Rx7 FD to AWD conversion?
Help... I need to know if theres any way or any place that does or can do an All Wheel Drive conversion on a 3rd Gen Rx7 ... i have a 94 and i was wondering if theres any way to make an FD AWD ... moneys not the problem just no place to do it @...or no idea how it do it myself..!! IF u can help me please do....
pnut311@nac.net
08-04-01, 11:19 PM
#2
The concept seems interesting but I think you will find that the RX-'s best quality may be its power to weight ratio not its overall Hp output. You make the car AWD your adding lots of weight and taking its edge away. The car will get traction with RWD and slicks fast enough to run 9's without tubbing it out. I think the results of an AWD conversion will be disappointing. Not to mention a huge waste of Cash. Just buy an Eclipse and improve its set up. That motor has enough torque to take advantage of the AWD. Rotories dont need AWD. Even still it would be interesting to see results. I just wouldnt want to spend 30-40 grand to find out. You can call Dave at KD rotary or Peter at PFS and tell him you have money buring a hole in your pocket and you want an AWD RX-7. I am sure you will get hooked up with a good frabricator.
08-06-01, 03:37 PM
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unless you're doing it for show, or doing ice racing, or Rally racing, I really can't see why you would want to put AWD on..
but yeah, give one of those shops a call. They may be interested in tackling it. (it'll cost you though, I would be more inclined to put a triple rotor in, as that would probably be about the same price, if not cheaper.) I would think you could expect it to cost around $30k
but yeah, give one of those shops a call. They may be interested in tackling it. (it'll cost you though, I would be more inclined to put a triple rotor in, as that would probably be about the same price, if not cheaper.) I would think you could expect it to cost around $30k
11-14-01, 12:32 AM
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Neat idea... has anyone been able to accomplish this? What was the outcome? Costs?
I found this on deja:
From: P. J. Remner (aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu)
Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive rx7
Newsgroups: rec.autos.rotary
View: Complete Thread (17 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/01/27
This, plainly, will not work. RX-7's are longitudinal-mount engine,
front engine, rear wheel drive. Probes, and other FWDs, are transverse mount engine, front engine, front wheel drive. Totally different systems.Some, like Subarus, some Audis and Volkswagens, and some Saabs (and yes, the LH sedons from Mother Mopar) are FWD/longitudinal engine, but the engine actually sits FORWARD of the front wheels. If you swapped, say, Subaru mechanicals in there, you'd have to stretch the nose of the car a few feet.
!
Unless!
Unless you took a tranny fron an old Saab 9000, where the engine sits BACKWARDS, so the flywheel is near the hood and the timing chain is up against the firewall. Then, mount a rotary to it, and then get an identical Saab tranny, "flop" the differential so that the axles spin reverse from normal, and hack it into the rear so theinput shaft faces the front of the car like normal.
Now. Take your engine, and get an identical one, and engineer a
coupling to mate the engines face-to-face (sounds kinky, eh?).
Mount a bellhousing to the rear of the added engine, with all
the usual clutch and flywheel bits. Fabricate a torque tube
system like a C5 Corvette or a Porsche 928 to transfer the
output to the rear transmission's input shaft. Then, use your
transmogifier to make clutch and shift linkage to operate
two transmissions simultaneously. Oh yeah, and also install
two Saab front suspensions, one in front and one in back.
Maybe also a tube frame for support after you've hacked the car up.
Gee, the hardest part will be deciding which end of your 24AA/26BB
engine will get the starter!
This idea is more plausible than "combining" an MX-6 and an RX-7.
That's like combining the a waterski with Bigfoot. Two totally
different animals.
>But, the Probe might be a source for nearly bolt-in front suspension parts, and
>that is part of the puzzle.
>Grant
Doubt it. I wouldn't want to use a Probe front end anyway, a strut sispension sucks and Probes/MX-6s/626s have a lot of problems with their bearing plates binding up. If ya REALLY REALLY REALLY want a four by RX, slide the engine about six or eight inches more rearward, swap in the complete front suspension (including drive axle, of course) from some IFS 4x4, and replace the transmission with one that can mate with a full-time transfer case. This should be obvious, but make sure that
the transfer case and front end have the driveshaft on the same side of the car. For thse purposes, it would be best if it were on the passenger side. For the life of me, I can't think of any IFS 4x4s that have the driveshaft on the passenger side. Plus, it would weigh a ton. The geometry would have to be re-engineered for a good camber curve and anti-dive characteristics, but that'd be easy since you'd be designing mounting points from scratch anyway.
Alternately, the rear diff from a Subaru could be used, but it would
have to be mounted upside-down for the wheels to rotate in the correct direction, and you'd be on your own as far as the hubs and suspension go. Differentials generally don't like to be mounted upside-down, but there is a possibility that the guts from the front diff could be used in the rear, I haven't had my rear diff apart yet to check for clearance.This would require uneven-length axles, unless you also want to take the time to engineer a three-joint long-side axle.
My concerns would be having enough room for all the mechanicals. The steering linkage will have to be hacked, the engine either moved rearward or the front tires moved forward, the floorboard will have to be hacked (you know the catalytic converter hump in the floor of a 4th-gen Camaro? This will be 10 times worse.) GM made a prototype AWD Corvette, I don't know if it was front or mid engine, but in order to get the engine low
enough, one of the shafts went *through* the oil pan.
Or, you could get a Jeep frame and put your RX body on it.
I found this on deja:
From: P. J. Remner (aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu)
Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive rx7
Newsgroups: rec.autos.rotary
View: Complete Thread (17 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/01/27
This, plainly, will not work. RX-7's are longitudinal-mount engine,
front engine, rear wheel drive. Probes, and other FWDs, are transverse mount engine, front engine, front wheel drive. Totally different systems.Some, like Subarus, some Audis and Volkswagens, and some Saabs (and yes, the LH sedons from Mother Mopar) are FWD/longitudinal engine, but the engine actually sits FORWARD of the front wheels. If you swapped, say, Subaru mechanicals in there, you'd have to stretch the nose of the car a few feet.
!
Unless!
Unless you took a tranny fron an old Saab 9000, where the engine sits BACKWARDS, so the flywheel is near the hood and the timing chain is up against the firewall. Then, mount a rotary to it, and then get an identical Saab tranny, "flop" the differential so that the axles spin reverse from normal, and hack it into the rear so theinput shaft faces the front of the car like normal.
Now. Take your engine, and get an identical one, and engineer a
coupling to mate the engines face-to-face (sounds kinky, eh?).
Mount a bellhousing to the rear of the added engine, with all
the usual clutch and flywheel bits. Fabricate a torque tube
system like a C5 Corvette or a Porsche 928 to transfer the
output to the rear transmission's input shaft. Then, use your
transmogifier to make clutch and shift linkage to operate
two transmissions simultaneously. Oh yeah, and also install
two Saab front suspensions, one in front and one in back.
Maybe also a tube frame for support after you've hacked the car up.
Gee, the hardest part will be deciding which end of your 24AA/26BB
engine will get the starter!
This idea is more plausible than "combining" an MX-6 and an RX-7.
That's like combining the a waterski with Bigfoot. Two totally
different animals.
>But, the Probe might be a source for nearly bolt-in front suspension parts, and
>that is part of the puzzle.
>Grant
Doubt it. I wouldn't want to use a Probe front end anyway, a strut sispension sucks and Probes/MX-6s/626s have a lot of problems with their bearing plates binding up. If ya REALLY REALLY REALLY want a four by RX, slide the engine about six or eight inches more rearward, swap in the complete front suspension (including drive axle, of course) from some IFS 4x4, and replace the transmission with one that can mate with a full-time transfer case. This should be obvious, but make sure that
the transfer case and front end have the driveshaft on the same side of the car. For thse purposes, it would be best if it were on the passenger side. For the life of me, I can't think of any IFS 4x4s that have the driveshaft on the passenger side. Plus, it would weigh a ton. The geometry would have to be re-engineered for a good camber curve and anti-dive characteristics, but that'd be easy since you'd be designing mounting points from scratch anyway.
Alternately, the rear diff from a Subaru could be used, but it would
have to be mounted upside-down for the wheels to rotate in the correct direction, and you'd be on your own as far as the hubs and suspension go. Differentials generally don't like to be mounted upside-down, but there is a possibility that the guts from the front diff could be used in the rear, I haven't had my rear diff apart yet to check for clearance.This would require uneven-length axles, unless you also want to take the time to engineer a three-joint long-side axle.
My concerns would be having enough room for all the mechanicals. The steering linkage will have to be hacked, the engine either moved rearward or the front tires moved forward, the floorboard will have to be hacked (you know the catalytic converter hump in the floor of a 4th-gen Camaro? This will be 10 times worse.) GM made a prototype AWD Corvette, I don't know if it was front or mid engine, but in order to get the engine low
enough, one of the shafts went *through* the oil pan.
Or, you could get a Jeep frame and put your RX body on it.
11-14-01, 01:00 AM
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Neat idea... I've heard about a 4WD second gen, but has anyone been able to accomplish this with a 3rd gen? What was the outcome? Costs?
I found this on deja:
From: P. J. Remner (aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu)
Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive rx7
Newsgroups: rec.autos.rotary
View: Complete Thread (17 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/01/27
This, plainly, will not work. RX-7's are longitudinal-mount engine,
front engine, rear wheel drive. Probes, and other FWDs, are transverse mount engine, front engine, front wheel drive. Totally different systems.Some, like Subarus, some Audis and Volkswagens, and some Saabs (and yes, the LH sedons from Mother Mopar) are FWD/longitudinal engine, but the engine actually sits FORWARD of the front wheels. If you swapped, say, Subaru mechanicals in there, you'd have to stretch the nose of the car a few feet.
!
Unless!
Unless you took a tranny fron an old Saab 9000, where the engine sits BACKWARDS, so the flywheel is near the hood and the timing chain is up against the firewall. Then, mount a rotary to it, and then get an identical Saab tranny, "flop" the differential so that the axles spin reverse from normal, and hack it into the rear so theinput shaft faces the front of the car like normal.
Now. Take your engine, and get an identical one, and engineer a
coupling to mate the engines face-to-face (sounds kinky, eh?).
Mount a bellhousing to the rear of the added engine, with all
the usual clutch and flywheel bits. Fabricate a torque tube
system like a C5 Corvette or a Porsche 928 to transfer the
output to the rear transmission's input shaft. Then, use your
transmogifier to make clutch and shift linkage to operate
two transmissions simultaneously. Oh yeah, and also install
two Saab front suspensions, one in front and one in back.
Maybe also a tube frame for support after you've hacked the car up.
Gee, the hardest part will be deciding which end of your 24AA/26BB
engine will get the starter!
This idea is more plausible than "combining" an MX-6 and an RX-7.
That's like combining the a waterski with Bigfoot. Two totally
different animals.
>But, the Probe might be a source for nearly bolt-in front suspension parts, and
>that is part of the puzzle.
>Grant
Doubt it. I wouldn't want to use a Probe front end anyway, a strut sispension sucks and Probes/MX-6s/626s have a lot of problems with their bearing plates binding up. If ya REALLY REALLY REALLY want a four by RX, slide the engine about six or eight inches more rearward, swap in the complete front suspension (including drive axle, of course) from some IFS 4x4, and replace the transmission with one that can mate with a full-time transfer case. This should be obvious, but make sure that
the transfer case and front end have the driveshaft on the same side of the car. For thse purposes, it would be best if it were on the passenger side. For the life of me, I can't think of any IFS 4x4s that have the driveshaft on the passenger side. Plus, it would weigh a ton. The geometry would have to be re-engineered for a good camber curve and anti-dive characteristics, but that'd be easy since you'd be designing mounting points from scratch anyway.
Alternately, the rear diff from a Subaru could be used, but it would
have to be mounted upside-down for the wheels to rotate in the correct direction, and you'd be on your own as far as the hubs and suspension go. Differentials generally don't like to be mounted upside-down, but there is a possibility that the guts from the front diff could be used in the rear, I haven't had my rear diff apart yet to check for clearance.This would require uneven-length axles, unless you also want to take the time to engineer a three-joint long-side axle.
My concerns would be having enough room for all the mechanicals. The steering linkage will have to be hacked, the engine either moved rearward or the front tires moved forward, the floorboard will have to be hacked (you know the catalytic converter hump in the floor of a 4th-gen Camaro? This will be 10 times worse.) GM made a prototype AWD Corvette, I don't know if it was front or mid engine, but in order to get the engine low
enough, one of the shafts went *through* the oil pan.
Or, you could get a Jeep frame and put your RX body on it.
I found this on deja:
From: P. J. Remner (aj923@cleveland.Freenet.Edu)
Subject: Re: 4 wheel drive rx7
Newsgroups: rec.autos.rotary
View: Complete Thread (17 articles) | Original Format
Date: 1999/01/27
This, plainly, will not work. RX-7's are longitudinal-mount engine,
front engine, rear wheel drive. Probes, and other FWDs, are transverse mount engine, front engine, front wheel drive. Totally different systems.Some, like Subarus, some Audis and Volkswagens, and some Saabs (and yes, the LH sedons from Mother Mopar) are FWD/longitudinal engine, but the engine actually sits FORWARD of the front wheels. If you swapped, say, Subaru mechanicals in there, you'd have to stretch the nose of the car a few feet.
!
Unless!
Unless you took a tranny fron an old Saab 9000, where the engine sits BACKWARDS, so the flywheel is near the hood and the timing chain is up against the firewall. Then, mount a rotary to it, and then get an identical Saab tranny, "flop" the differential so that the axles spin reverse from normal, and hack it into the rear so theinput shaft faces the front of the car like normal.
Now. Take your engine, and get an identical one, and engineer a
coupling to mate the engines face-to-face (sounds kinky, eh?).
Mount a bellhousing to the rear of the added engine, with all
the usual clutch and flywheel bits. Fabricate a torque tube
system like a C5 Corvette or a Porsche 928 to transfer the
output to the rear transmission's input shaft. Then, use your
transmogifier to make clutch and shift linkage to operate
two transmissions simultaneously. Oh yeah, and also install
two Saab front suspensions, one in front and one in back.
Maybe also a tube frame for support after you've hacked the car up.
Gee, the hardest part will be deciding which end of your 24AA/26BB
engine will get the starter!
This idea is more plausible than "combining" an MX-6 and an RX-7.
That's like combining the a waterski with Bigfoot. Two totally
different animals.
>But, the Probe might be a source for nearly bolt-in front suspension parts, and
>that is part of the puzzle.
>Grant
Doubt it. I wouldn't want to use a Probe front end anyway, a strut sispension sucks and Probes/MX-6s/626s have a lot of problems with their bearing plates binding up. If ya REALLY REALLY REALLY want a four by RX, slide the engine about six or eight inches more rearward, swap in the complete front suspension (including drive axle, of course) from some IFS 4x4, and replace the transmission with one that can mate with a full-time transfer case. This should be obvious, but make sure that
the transfer case and front end have the driveshaft on the same side of the car. For thse purposes, it would be best if it were on the passenger side. For the life of me, I can't think of any IFS 4x4s that have the driveshaft on the passenger side. Plus, it would weigh a ton. The geometry would have to be re-engineered for a good camber curve and anti-dive characteristics, but that'd be easy since you'd be designing mounting points from scratch anyway.
Alternately, the rear diff from a Subaru could be used, but it would
have to be mounted upside-down for the wheels to rotate in the correct direction, and you'd be on your own as far as the hubs and suspension go. Differentials generally don't like to be mounted upside-down, but there is a possibility that the guts from the front diff could be used in the rear, I haven't had my rear diff apart yet to check for clearance.This would require uneven-length axles, unless you also want to take the time to engineer a three-joint long-side axle.
My concerns would be having enough room for all the mechanicals. The steering linkage will have to be hacked, the engine either moved rearward or the front tires moved forward, the floorboard will have to be hacked (you know the catalytic converter hump in the floor of a 4th-gen Camaro? This will be 10 times worse.) GM made a prototype AWD Corvette, I don't know if it was front or mid engine, but in order to get the engine low
enough, one of the shafts went *through* the oil pan.
Or, you could get a Jeep frame and put your RX body on it.
11-14-01, 04:41 PM
#7
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hmmm.....well I do know that the auto FD has the same transmission as the MPV minivan and there is an AWD MPV somewhere cause I saw it listed when I was looking for tranny parts. May be totally different though.
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11-19-01, 09:47 PM
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I can't believe you nuts are still talking about this :p
Last edited by Flybye; 11-19-01 at 09:54 PM.
11-19-01, 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by martini
unless you're doing it for show, or doing ice racing, or Rally racing, I really can't see why you would want to put AWD on..
but yeah, give one of those shops a call. They may be interested in tackling it. (it'll cost you though, I would be more inclined to put a triple rotor in, as that would probably be about the same price, if not cheaper.) I would think you could expect it to cost around $30k
unless you're doing it for show, or doing ice racing, or Rally racing, I really can't see why you would want to put AWD on..
but yeah, give one of those shops a call. They may be interested in tackling it. (it'll cost you though, I would be more inclined to put a triple rotor in, as that would probably be about the same price, if not cheaper.) I would think you could expect it to cost around $30k
11-21-01, 12:15 AM
#14
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fd is rear wheel drive, if u want AWD buy a eclypse or tallon or wrx.....i never under stood how people felt when someoone mentioned v8's in a fd..i men to each his own, but this is just plain wrong...
02-09-10, 10:10 PM
#19
straight 7
That bottom pic of the drive line is from one of his 1st gen cars. The 2nd gen car had a completely custom (cast and machined in-house) transmission... from what I've read. A friend of mine has one of his old 1st gens, unfortunately the AWD system had been removed. When I was 15 I had the pleasure of crawling all over the first 2nd gen version when he ran an S.C.C.A. event in AR. Unfortunately I was too young, and frankly, giddy to think to photograph the front drive system. I do have the other photos. Poor guy, he couldn't shake me the entire weekend. He was a great guy, had to be, I was like a lost, hungry puppy.
In retrospect I JUST thought of something strange about that weekend while I was talking to him... he was grooving his own tires!
In retrospect I JUST thought of something strange about that weekend while I was talking to him... he was grooving his own tires!
02-10-10, 04:42 PM
#22
^^^ what he said.
Can it be done? Yes, if you have enough money anything is possible. Should you do it? No, unless you like breaking stuff. 150-200kg extra and added stress to a car which is already fragile as it is and engine lacking in torque.
Can it be done? Yes, if you have enough money anything is possible. Should you do it? No, unless you like breaking stuff. 150-200kg extra and added stress to a car which is already fragile as it is and engine lacking in torque.
