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Hello Everyone,
I currently have an 88 GTU which I'm planning on beefing up. Its pretty much bone stock and I'm looking to tastefully modify it into a beast of a rotary engine. (sorry for the poor quality picture)
I'm not quite sure what my desired power range I'm looking for is but I think I know how much I want to spend on it which is going to be around 5-7k. The engine and chassis have been kept in good condition, it has around 88k on both, its been babied its whole life.
I think I want to Bridge-Port the engine,(probably after the 120k mark) if California smog rules will allow it. I've been reading up on ITBs since that seems like how most people get a strong all engine N/A but I'm not sure how much that will cost me. Where else would I start in my search for more power, or what should I focus on with the budget I've stated? Another thing, should I skip building altogether and just start modifying suspension/tune to start out since I'm a total rookie..
Thanks in advance, I can't wait to get started! (I bought the car around 6 months ago)
Well, first off, you wanna drift it, your budget of 5-7K will be ate up in suspension, than probably another 5-7K in building an engine, and right now you have a n/a, your future is looking dim so far, no offense when i say this either
Your also not going to get a bridgeport to pass california smog,bone stock 7s have a hard enough time passing smog limits
And you sure its an 88? It has s5 aero mirrors, granted they could've been changed, but just a quick observation
My advise is get the suspension done first and some serious seat time in. All the power in the world won't help you if you can control a slide. You can start out with the basics
Coilovers
Dtss removers
Steering rack spacers or modified knuckles
And either a welded diff or LSD
You can have fun drifting in a low power na, but you won't be blowing smoke out the rear tires like all the v8 turbo guys.
Well, first off, you wanna drift it, your budget of 5-7K will be ate up in suspension, than probably another 5-7K in building an engine, and right now you have a n/a, your future is looking dim so far, no offense when i say this either
Your also not going to get a bridgeport to pass california smog,bone stock 7s have a hard enough time passing smog limits
And you sure its an 88? It has s5 aero mirrors, granted they could've been changed, but just a quick observation
I figured, I just wanted to throw out a number if it was reasonable or not. I'll probably focus on the suspension rather than power because I'm not power hungry. I just wanted to know where I could start to improve things, I've already changed oil to 20w50 synthetic royal purple to start off small. I have some DTSS Eliminators I just haven't installed them yet. I didn't think it would as CA is b**** for smog related issues.
All the paperwork I have states its an 88, I guess the original owner could've swapped that out.
My advise is get the suspension done first and some serious seat time in. All the power in the world won't help you if you can control a slide. You can start out with the basics
Coilovers
Dtss removers
Steering rack spacers or modified knuckles
And either a welded diff or LSD
You can have fun drifting in a low power na, but you won't be blowing smoke out the rear tires like all the v8 turbo guys.
I'll take it. I'd rather spend more time in the car than working on it anyways haha. I have DTSS removers, I've seen around the forum that the JTP knuckle mod is the way to go I guess its time to figure out how to do that. All that's left is Coilovers and and an LSD, I know Tein is a good brand for coilovers. I've looked at the type Flex and the super drifts I think I'll bite the bullet and cash out on the super drifts for maximum adjustability most likely. As for the LSD, I know the 88 GTU came stock with one but I'm not sure if its a good idea to weld it or should I just buy a brand new one and sell it? Also, should I be swapping out the wheels for something lighter and what size is best? I know little to nothing about wheel fitment..
The knuckle mod is easy to do. I've done a few sets. Pm me if you want more info. I still use my dtss in the rear. Haven't got around to eliminate them. For the LSD you can shim the stock one with a few pieces of aluminum. I've done a couple of those also. What part of cali are you from?
The knuckle mod is easy to do. I've done a few sets. Pm me if you want more info. I still use my dtss in the rear. Haven't got around to eliminate them. For the LSD you can shim the stock one with a few pieces of aluminum. I've done a couple of those also. What part of cali are you from?
Will do, Same I just need to look up how to do it again and set aside the time to do it. How would that hold up while drifting? Is it a better idea to get an aftermarket LSD? I'm really particular and I don't cutting corners lol. I'm from San Jose,CA but I live in Stockton,CA at the moment.
The reason I use 20w50 is because it was recommended by Icemark in an older thread and I saw a chart relating it to higher ambient temperatures and Nor-Cal likes to stay hot most of the time.
do a T2 swap you would be open to so many possibilitys
and not limited with the NA
The reason I wanted to keep it NA is because most FCs are turbo'd and I wanted to be different but still be relevant, I'm not sure how feasible this is with my current idea of a budget and restrictions though. I thought switching the exhaust with a true dual setup, with an ITB build and a nice bridge-port would make some good gains but I'm not sure how costly that would be.
I've used a shimmed LSD on my s4 for about 4 years. Its held up fine. I track about 8-10 times per year now.
How do you go about doing that? By the way, while I'm in there I should probably change the clutch, do you guys use multi-plate clutches in drifting or is there a need for a certain stage clutch?
How do you go about doing that? By the way, while I'm in there I should probably change the clutch, do you guys use multi-plate clutches in drifting or is there a need for a certain stage clutch?
I'm using a exedy pressure plate with a racing beat clutch disc. You don't have the power to need a multi plate disc a nice street/strip setup will be more than enough. Here is a thread that shows how to shim the LSD
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/my-85-rx7-non-turbo-lsd-rebuild-question-thread-815576/
I'm using a exedy pressure plate with a racing beat clutch disc. You don't have the power to need a multi plate disc a nice street/strip setup will be more than enough. Here is a thread that shows how to shim the LSD https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generati...thread-815576/
Alright! thanks man. I'll pm you about that knuckle mod as well.
I've used a shimmed LSD on my s4 for about 4 years. Its held up fine. I track about 8-10 times per year now.
^^^ This... Shimmed LSD works great and if done right will last just as long as aftermarket. But if you don't feel up to the task an aftermarket LSD is always a sound option. I definitely recommend against welding the diff ESPECIALLY if your car is going to see ANY kind of street use. It will quickly turn accelerating out of just about any turn a squirrely situation, not to mention it becomes nearly undrivable in wet weather. Ask me how I know. lol
Why is that? I've read in other threads that the higher quality synthetic is fine to use.
There is no need to drain the synthetic.
What exactly is premixing? I haven't looked into that just yet. Also, should I get my rotors clearance so I have more headroom in the high end?
Doing so would require engine disassembly and would be completely pointless as the stock ports and manifold run out of breath before the engine mechanically runs out of RPM.
High quality synthetics are fine to run with OMP. Premixing is when you mix two stroke oil into your gas tank to help lubricate the housings. I only premix, but using premix with your OMP still installed is okay. If you do premix, use any TCW3 two stroke oil and mix .5 - 1 oz per gallon of gas if you have the OMP. If you ever remove your OMP, then mix 1 - 1.5 oz per gallon. Some people even mix 2 oz per gallon without OMP.
Now for what I would recommend for your first things to do on the car is replacing all the fluids, which seems you've already started with the oil. After that, I would inspect all of your bushings and rubber mounts for excessive wear and fraying, which they probably are since the car is 30 years old. If they are bad or going bad, replace them. You can choose to go with OEM style rubber bushings or opt for polyurethane bushings to give your car a little stiffer feel. One rubber mount to keep an eye out for is the front diff mount, because it likes to destroy itself and allow the nose of the diff to hop around and bang on the car. Often times people replace it with a completely metal mount.
Then inspect the ball joints for any play and replace as needed. While you're under the car, inspect all of your suspension pieces to see if any are bent. If so, replace them. Another good thing to check is wheel bearings. Jack the car up and see if you can shake the wheel up and down and left and right. If so, you should repack the bearings with grease and possibly replace them.
It was mentioned earlier by someone else, but replacing the DTSS bushings with solid ones will make the car much more predictable and easier to slide. After all of this you should be able to easily get a feel for the car and learn to slide. I wouldn't jump into major angle mods like modded wheel hubs and all that until you get pretty decent at how the car handles stock wise. After that you can all out and get some good coilovers and fancy suspension pieces.
Before you do anything crazy power wise, I'd recommend learning how to drive the car well first like I said with the fancy suspension goodies. After that you can get a full exhaust including headers, and that's honestly the best bang for your buck on an NA. Please, do NOT put a cone filter in place of the stock air box because all it will do is pull hot air into it unless you really make a fancy intake, which would then be doing just as well as the stock air box would be doing. If you do the exhaust and a nice drop in filter but still want more power, then honestly save up to install a turbo. Extracting more power after an exhaust and drop in intake just makes costs sky rocket for not a whole lot of power gains on an NA.
TL;DR Don't go crazy right away and just enjoy the car.
^^^ This... Shimmed LSD works great and if done right will last just as long as aftermarket. But if you don't feel up to the task an aftermarket LSD is always a sound option. I definitely recommend against welding the diff ESPECIALLY if your car is going to see ANY kind of street use. It will quickly turn accelerating out of just about any turn a squirrely situation, not to mention it becomes nearly undrivable in wet weather. Ask me how I know. lol
Noted. Which is the type in the 88 GTU? Can I get away with doing nothing to it for now? I want to splurge on a set of good coilovers if possible. Or would it be a better idea to do it the other way around and splurge on a good lsd and drive it with stock suspension minus DTSS eliminators?
Doing so would require engine disassembly and would be completely pointless as the stock ports and manifold run out of breath before the engine mechanically runs out of RPM.
Thank god, that oil was expensive. lol it looks really cool though.
Noted, I just wanted to be able to rev it higher but if its pointless than I won't even bother.
High quality synthetics are fine to run with OMP. Premixing is when you mix two stroke oil into your gas tank to help lubricate the housings. I only premix, but using premix with your OMP still installed is okay. If you do premix, use any TCW3 two stroke oil and mix .5 - 1 oz per gallon of gas if you have the OMP. If you ever remove your OMP, then mix 1 - 1.5 oz per gallon. Some people even mix 2 oz per gallon without OMP.
Now for what I would recommend for your first things to do on the car is replacing all the fluids, which seems you've already started with the oil. After that, I would inspect all of your bushings and rubber mounts for excessive wear and fraying, which they probably are since the car is 30 years old. If they are bad or going bad, replace them. You can choose to go with OEM style rubber bushings or opt for polyurethane bushings to give your car a little stiffer feel. One rubber mount to keep an eye out for is the front diff mount, because it likes to destroy itself and allow the nose of the diff to hop around and bang on the car. Often times people replace it with a completely metal mount.
Then inspect the ball joints for any play and replace as needed. While you're under the car, inspect all of your suspension pieces to see if any are bent. If so, replace them. Another good thing to check is wheel bearings. Jack the car up and see if you can shake the wheel up and down and left and right. If so, you should repack the bearings with grease and possibly replace them.
It was mentioned earlier by someone else, but replacing the DTSS bushings with solid ones will make the car much more predictable and easier to slide. After all of this you should be able to easily get a feel for the car and learn to slide. I wouldn't jump into major angle mods like modded wheel hubs and all that until you get pretty decent at how the car handles stock wise. After that you can all out and get some good coilovers and fancy suspension pieces.
Before you do anything crazy power wise, I'd recommend learning how to drive the car well first like I said with the fancy suspension goodies. After that you can get a full exhaust including headers, and that's honestly the best bang for your buck on an NA. Please, do NOT put a cone filter in place of the stock air box because all it will do is pull hot air into it unless you really make a fancy intake, which would then be doing just as well as the stock air box would be doing. If you do the exhaust and a nice drop in filter but still want more power, then honestly save up to install a turbo. Extracting more power after an exhaust and drop in intake just makes costs sky rocket for not a whole lot of power gains on an NA.
TL;DR Don't go crazy right away and just enjoy the car.
Don't worry I won't disrespect you by not reading your opinion thoroughly.
I've changed the oil and oil filter I remember reading Icemark's input about using a K&N oil filter and the thicker oil which is why I switched it to that. I'm in the process of flushing the coolant system. Should I be replacing the power steering fluid and brake fluid as well? One thing I forgot, the transmission oil, I have not changed that. It seems to get pretty warm in the cabin frequently, is this normal or should I be concerned? Do I need to change the transmission oil and Diff oil? I've been trying to figure out which is the right bolt on the transmission to drain it but I can't seem to pinpont which one it is.
Its funny you mention the diff mount because a buddy of mine that had an awesome sil-80 s13 was telling me that they tend to break.
One thing I want to note, that I've been wary of driving my 7 in traffic because the clutch seems to give out after constant repeated use. I read that it could be the slave cylinder or it could just use more fluid, I'll address that soon as well.(I figured I might as well mention all problems and take care of them all at the same time.)
I'll check all the suspension, ball joints and wheel bearings as well.
I have some Racing Beat DTSS eliminators just haven't gotten around to installing them. (Never worked with a press before) I understand that's what alot of the more experienced people say(heard Keiichi Tsuchiya say it in the drift bible lol) that learning on stock and gradually moving up is the best way to go. Which is why I kind of wanted to go for a an aftermarket LSD probably OS Giken for adjustability and keep everything else stock to see what I can pull off.
I think that'll be my first power performance gain purchase after I'm done swapping out the suspension goodies.(speaking of the exhaust) I was thinking a Racing beat true dual setup would be nice. I will definitely not be changing the air filter at all except for maybe OEM replacements if anything is looking ragged. With all that I've searched on N/A 13Bs so far its looking like its just going to stay stock until I have to rebuild it, then maybe a street port and thats it. If I ever really want to upgrade power down the line I'll probably go all out and go for a 20B.
Thanks again for the well detailed response, you covered many topics and it was very informative.
I knew I'd love the rotary community! You guys rock!
Don't worry I won't disrespect you by not reading your opinion thoroughly.
I've changed the oil and oil filter I remember reading Icemark's input about using a K&N oil filter and the thicker oil which is why I switched it to that. I'm in the process of flushing the coolant system. Should I be replacing the power steering fluid and brake fluid as well? One thing I forgot, the transmission oil, I have not changed that. It seems to get pretty warm in the cabin frequently, is this normal or should I be concerned? Do I need to change the transmission oil and Diff oil? I've been trying to figure out which is the right bolt on the transmission to drain it but I can't seem to pinpont which one it is.
Its funny you mention the diff mount because a buddy of mine that had an awesome sil-80 s13 was telling me that they tend to break.
One thing I want to note, that I've been wary of driving my 7 in traffic because the clutch seems to give out after constant repeated use. I read that it could be the slave cylinder or it could just use more fluid, I'll address that soon as well.(I figured I might as well mention all problems and take care of them all at the same time.)
I'll check all the suspension, ball joints and wheel bearings as well.
I have some Racing Beat DTSS eliminators just haven't gotten around to installing them. (Never worked with a press before) I understand that's what alot of the more experienced people say(heard Keiichi Tsuchiya say it in the drift bible lol) that learning on stock and gradually moving up is the best way to go. Which is why I kind of wanted to go for a an aftermarket LSD probably OS Giken for adjustability and keep everything else stock to see what I can pull off.
I think that'll be my first power performance gain purchase after I'm done swapping out the suspension goodies.(speaking of the exhaust) I was thinking a Racing beat true dual setup would be nice. I will definitely not be changing the air filter at all except for maybe OEM replacements if anything is looking ragged. With all that I've searched on N/A 13Bs so far its looking like its just going to stay stock until I have to rebuild it, then maybe a street port and thats it. If I ever really want to upgrade power down the line I'll probably go all out and go for a 20B.
Thanks again for the well detailed response, you covered many topics and it was very informative.
I knew I'd love the rotary community! You guys rock!
Does the clutch just not disengage at all after repeated use? If you have to add fluid to it repeatedly then you have a leaky master or slave. The master cylinders tend to leak down the brake booster and corrode the paint on the booster itself. If you see the paint below the master is faded and corroded then you should probably rebuild/replace the master cylinder. The rubber clutch line could have some small cracks in it that happened with age, and will allow fluid to leak and the system will get air in it. Just inspect around the slave and master cylinders for any brake fluid that may be leaking to help diagnose where the issue is.
Does the clutch just not disengage at all after repeated use? If you have to add fluid to it repeatedly then you have a leaky master or slave. The master cylinders tend to leak down the brake booster and corrode the paint on the booster itself. If you see the paint below the master is faded and corroded then you should probably rebuild/replace the master cylinder. The rubber clutch line could have some small cracks in it that happened with age, and will allow fluid to leak and the system will get air in it. Just inspect around the slave and master cylinders for any brake fluid that may be leaking to help diagnose where the issue is.
The clutch pedal will stick and it won't come back up unless I use my foot to force it back up. It goes away after a while but ever since I've had that happen I avoid traffic like the plague whenever I drive my 7.
Thanks for the tips, looks like I'll be in the garage all weekend.
11-03-15, 09:00 PM
Pure N/A Drift S4 Build! (Much advice needed)
