RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

I've been on here off and on looking for help on miscellaneous things, but I decided now that I have a couple more problems I’d try and compile them all in 1 thread.

Also, let it be known that for several reasons, I need to get this thing running properly before January 25th. Your prompt help would be greatly appreciated.

Background:

First of all, I want to make it clear that I take complete responsibility for making a possibly "bad choice" when diving into this. I didn't do the normal amount of research and double checking that I normally do before I bought the Megasquirt, so now that I have it I’m a newbie and really don't know a whole lot about it. I realize I probably would have been better off buying the unit from scratch and putting it together myself; but I’m stuck with what I have so I have to try and make the best of it.

Around Christmas time 2005, I was in search of a way to eliminate my mass airflow sensor (MAF) because it had become the weak point in my engine setup and I had hit a "wall" and could not go any further in HP until I removed it. So, after looking around and reading here and there, I decided Megasquirt would be a good way to go. I logged onto the forum, and sure enough forum member Slpin was trying to sell his setup. In his for sale ad, he stated that he had already wired everything and if I bought it, it would basically be "plug and play" (virtually no assembly required). That sounded like a good deal because from what I read wiring and setting up a MS from the beginning is quite the task.

So I bought it from him. He sent me basic instructions on what I needed to do: Hook up the RPM wire to the coils, send a vacuum hose from the MS unit to a pressure source, put together all the loose ECU connections, and start it up. He also emailed me the software (v2.25beta) and all of the settings he used when his car was running (his setup was similar to mine). He gave me a very brief run-through on how to get the software communicating with the MS, and sent me on my way. Today, he is impossible to get a hold of for any questions-- and even when I do get a hold of him he says he's forgotten everything so I’m on my own. Also, he failed to mention what version board it was, I believe I have the v2.2 board.

Also, it is setup so that the stock ECU controls ignition (so it is not a Megasquirt n' Spark system). To control ignition I have an Apexi S-ITC ignition controller, which I was told I would need if I wanted to raise the boost at some point in time.

The ECU setup:

Instead of trying to explain what my setup looks like, I’ve snapped some pictures to try and give you a better understanding:







Software:

To try and maintain slpin's settings, I've stuck with v2.25beta. It runs virtually flawlessly compared to newer and completed v2.25--which gives me errors galore and has huge problems reading slpin's settings (i'd have to start from scratch it seems if I was to use 2.25 instead of beta). Here's what the main menu interface looks like:




Is there anyway to get a A:F ratio gauge to show up here or is that only available in v2.25?

Wideband:

I have an Innovative LC-1. I've installed the wideband today to the best of my understanding of the instructions provided with the unit.

Here are a couple of pictures of how I wired it (excuse the bluriness):






The one thing that really confused me was this (from the instruction PDF):



I'm totally not sure if I did it correctly for the MS to read the signal from the LC-1. The wideband itself works great plugged in directly to my laptop via the serial port connection. It reads the A:F ratio perfectly.

I'm still try to figure out how to see the A:F ratio in the Megasquirt v2.25beta interface. Here's where I think might have been reading the signal from the Wideband (this is what it read after trying to run it for a little while):



Also, I was wondering if I did this correctly:



I read here in this board that I need to "set 0v to 10:1 and 5v to 20:1".. Did I do it right? Is it that simple? Is there something I need to change in the settings.ini besides changing "#unset Innovate0_5" to "# set Innovate0_5" ...?

Problem(s):

1. Now that I have the Megasquirt hooked up, my stock tachometer doesn’t work anymore (but the tach on the MS software does read perfectly). Huh?? It was working fine before I hooked up the MS...

2. As I mentioned before, I still can't figure out how to read the LC-1's A:F output on the Megasquirt interface. I was told by slpin that the Megasquirt will tune more accurately or something If I have the wideband wired into it...

3. Surprisingly, the car runs when I start it. It does not idle, and I'm afraid to rev it high, but between about 1500-3000rpm, it runs pretty smooth. It does feel a little "chuga-chuga-chuga" ish, kinda choppy, if that makes sense.

Final Notes:

When I get this thing running correctly, I plan on driving it around and "street tuning" the car. Once its running correctly, I'm going to take it to a local dyno and raise the boost and try and crank out some more horses. Right now the car is roughly 325whp @ 9psi-- I’m hoping to raise the boost to 15-18 so I could maybe squeeze out 400whp.

Mods are listed in the link in my signature below.

Whatever you can do to help again would be greatly appreciated. Without your help, I really am alone in the dark and will probably never get the MS running.

-Andrew

slpin

iTrader: (9)

i think you probably have to change the injectors on there
i had mine on 4x 800cc injectors
i believe it was on a dual table setup, with 1 table on pri, and table 2 on sec
change the pulses to what your injectors are, and it will fire up.

is the itc wired correcetly? it has the same ign pins as the fd.

where are you tapping your vac signal from, it should be somewhere around the uim, nipple closest to turbo.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that's correct.

Here's what I just did (is it right?):

Fuel settings for VE Table 1 as they were with slpin's settings:


What it looks like now:


Fuel settings for VE Table 2 as they were with slpin's settings:


What it looks like now:


Yes, it is. I tested it before I installed anything and it successfully changed timing.

It is tapped into the vac line that runs between the B.O.V. and UIM. I can snap a picture if you'd like. It seems to read MAP fine, the MAP needle moves up and down with revving.

Thanks for helping slpin, I hope it came across that you were indeed helpful when I bought it and my review I wrote for you at the time of purchase still stands. As I said, I accept full responsibility for trying to figure it out more than a year after the sale.

-Andrew

slpin

iTrader: (9)

are you running low-imp injectors?
you will have to adjust the PVM and the response time on it.
i think for low imp, it should be around 25-30%
the megasquirt faq should be able to explain it a little bit better, but the injectors, right now, are set for high-imp, i believe.
that could cause some problems...

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Yes, they are low impedance. I'll look it up on the MS faq.

Thanks. If anyone else has input i'd appreciate if you chimed in.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Update:

I changed the settings to fit to my injectors (I think).

This included: Changing the PWM Time Threshold to 1.0 millisecond, and PWM Current Limit (%) to 75%. This is what the megasquirt website said to do with low impedance injectors. I did this for both primaries and secondaries, is that correct?

I got the car started with these settings, but it ran very strangely. At under 2000 rpm, It sounded like a piston engine with aggressive cams: it had a very distinct gap in the exhaust note (bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum) rather than the regular, much more constant and continous note. It actually sounded like it may have been running on 1 rotor. At about 1800rpm, it sounded like it was actually at 500rpm, and the car actually shook a little bit with the exhaust.

Unfortuneatly, my battery died from excessive cranking and accidentaly leaving my doors open for an extended period of time; so i'm recharging the battery and will resume tomorrow.

Also, slpin (or anyone else), do you have any idea why my stock tach would not be working with the MS plugged in? This is very concearning for me...

Thanks again.

-Andrew

P.S.: Also, it should be noted that when I started tonight the coolant temperature was about 37°F, so I'm not sure if that would have some kind of impact... Also, is it normal for the MAP to read between 70 and 80 kPa during cranking? I didn't look at what it read while the car was running unfortuneatly...

muythaibxr

The stock tach runs off the trailing ignitor, so if it's not working, you're not getting trailing spark.

Also, if you're running low impedance injectors with resistor packs, you don't need to mess with the PWM settings....

thetech

iTrader: (1)

I'm still battling with this as well, but you should have "# of Injectors = 2" on each of the constants pages - you only want Constants 1 and VE Table 1 to control the primary 2 injectors, and similar for Constants 2/VE Table 2 and the secondaries.

By setting Injectors = 4, it will fire all 4 injectors (primaries and secondaries) at the same time. The way you have it set in your constants pages currently is as if you had 4 primary and 4 secondary injectors (8 total).

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Hmm... That might explain the feel of running on 1 rotor too... I'll check it out.

Yes, I am running low imp with the S4 resistor packs swapped in. So does that mean I should just leave the PWM settings the way they were (slpin's settings?).

thetech> I was wondering about that myself. You just confirmed what I was thinking, i'll definitely change that.

Thanks guys.

renns

You could do it that way (dual table mode), but it's much simpler to use staged injection, and do all your tuning on VE table 1. If you do proceed with dual table mode, then yes, set injector# to the actual number of injectors used on that bank (2)

Not true. Setting to four will scale the req_fuel number, but has no effect on which injectors are fired. Whichinjectors are fired is based on:
1.) Staged injection settings
2.) Alternating/Simultaneous settings in constants page
3.) Fuel table settings under Advanced tab (used to enable dual table mode)

I'd strongly suggest re-flashing to the lastest msnsextra code, setting up staged injection, and re-tuning that way. It'll be far easier to tune, and you'll be able to swap maps with others on this list with similar installs.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Update:

So I just confirmed that while the Megasquirt is plugged in, my trailing plugs are not firing. The ignitors are working fine with the factory ECU in place.

Does anyone know what might be happening? I'm going to pull up the wiring diagrams for both the megasquirt and the factory ECU and see if I can trace it to a bad connection somewhere...

I don't understand why they wouldn't be working... The only thing I thought my MS did w/ the coils was read RPM signal. Keep in mind, the tach in MegaTune works fine, but my tach in the intstrument cluster does not work...

Thanks.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

After thinking about it for a little while, it seems to me that the problem would have to be somewhere AFTER the stock wiring harness, otherwise with my old setup (unaltered stock ECU) the trailings would fail to fire as well.



Does anyone have any sort of wiring diagram or something that I could look at that might tell me where this problem might occur? I've been looking everywhere for some kind of indication, but havn't had any luck.

I can't really proceed until I figure this out, so i'm watching this thread like a hawk. Please help!!!

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Okay, snapped some pictures of the inside... maybe this will help...






Wires coming out of it:



Hope that helps..

renns

Looks like you need to pull out the FSM and start tracing the wiring. Print out the wiring diagram for the MS as well, and spend the time to figure it out. Compare connections with those listed in the FAQ. There's no value in somebody doing that work for you. Put in the effort now, and it will pay dividends in the future. By the time you complete that process you'll have the understanding needed to modify your MS and run full standalone instead of fuel-only.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

I just figured that out myself.

Problem is, i've spent most the day looking for both wiring diagrams, but I have not had much success.

I want to trace the wiring from the MS through the ECU to where it connects with the factory wiring harness and see if all of the connections are correct. It follows that if all the wiring is correct, then something is fried either in the MS unit or in the wired ECU slpin gave me.

So here is my question:

1. Can anyone direct me to a wiring diagram for the megasquirt unit itself? I have scowered the MS website and this forum most the day I can't seem to find it (I must be blind or something). All I need to know is what which wire that leads out of the MS unit is supposed to connect to...:



EDIT: Look what I found...!



I believe this is what I was looking for (wiring diagram for the plug into the MS). Is that correct?

If it is what i'm looking for, are these abbreviations correct? Fill in the blanks if you can, because i'm clueless:

"=" means "connects to"

MAT = __________
CLT = __________
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor
O2 = Wideband
COIL = Trailing Coil
Vref = _________
12 RAW = 12v Power Source
IDL = __________
INJ-1 = Primary Injector(s)
INJ-2 = Secondary Injector(s)
FP1 = Fuel Pump

Help is appreciated.

muythaibxr

renns

Good to see you are digging in. You'll be glad you did.

MAT = Manifold Air Temp
CLT = Coolant Temp
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor
O2 = Wideband
COIL = Trailing Coil
Vref = 5V reference voltage for TPS
12 RAW = 12v Power Source
IDL = Fast Idle Output
INJ-1 = Primary Injector(s)
INJ-2 = Secondary Injector(s)
FP1 = Fuel Pump

Note that Muy's posted schematic is for a modified V3.0, which isn't directly applicable to your older V2.2 box.

muythaibxr

ahh, you're right, I missed the 2.2 thing, here's the 2.2 schematic:

slpin

iTrader: (9)

the problem wont be from my wiring
i have trailing spark when i used it.
the problem is probably when you installed the ITC.
the trailing uses a differnet pick up on it

the megasquirt doesnt even have anything to do with ignition. the stock ecu does the ignition in this setup.

not only that, ignition wires are untouched.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the wiring diagrams guys, i'm working on tracing the wires as we speak.

I'm trying to eliminate all possibilities for why the trailings may not be firing one at a time. Right now I'm working on eliminating the wiring possibility, but I also want to elminate the software possibility. Is there anything in the software that could potentially cause the trailings not to fire? Someone I was talking to suggested that some EMS's have anti-theft systems or valet switches built in which will purposely kill spark. Is there anything like that in this system? Anything else which could mess with the trailings in the software?

Thanks again guys.

muythaibxr

not if it's only wired for fuel.

Even if it's not wired for fuel only, and wired to control spark as well, the only thing that would keep trailing from firing is turning it off...

And rotaries run fine without trailing unless there is a problem with leading.

slpin

iTrader: (9)

exactly.
the megasquirt that is connected to the ECU doesnt even have a single wire that goes to the ignition.
the only time the ignitions wires were ever touched was when you installed the ITC. I would definately look into that. Maybe you messed a solder joint up, or pulled out a gold finger?

software, hardware, it is neither of those.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I will rewire the ITC... But the point stands that the car has been running fine with the ITC installed for the past 3000+ miles.. why would it all the sudden start acting up now that the MS is installed? I'm thinking one of the only possibilities is something was damaged in the wiring harness while i've been switching back and forth between slpin's ECU and my old ECU; because my yellow connectors are heavily damaged and require a screwdriver and heavy pulling to get them out of the ECU once 'clicked' in.

Because of this, I've already noticed 1 wire that was pulled out of its 'pin,' it was a fuel injector wire, so we're currently working on fixing that. Hopefully its that simple.

Thanks again for the help guys.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Update:

Well, I spent the last few hours tracing the wiring.

1. As far as I can tell, everything is wired correctly. However, I can not confirm whether the wiring WITHIN the stock ECU was done correctly, because its globbed over with water-protectant sealer. With the naked eye, it looks correct. From what I could tell when the MS is running, it seems everything works perfectly EXCEPT the trailing coils; that means the water temp, O2, TPS, etc. all are working correctly.

2. The ITC wiring is fine. Also, I re-tested the spark, and again, when the stock ECU is plugged in, the trailings fire flawlessly. Only when I plug in slpin's ECU does it lose spark.

3. Now that I have eliminated the possibility of software and wiring, it seems to me it could only be one thing. From deductive reasoning I can say my best guess of the root of the problem is at the modified stock ECU (hardware).

So, is there anyway to check the circuit board to see if there is any damage? Can anyone show me a picture or a schematic or something where I would be able to see where ignition is on the ECU's circuit board? If I did find it and it is damaged, is it repairable, or do I need a new ECU?

4. According to the wiring diagram provided earlier: On my/slpin's setup, the wires labeled "5 Vref," "Relay for FIdle Solenoid," and "FP Relay" are all wired to nothing. Do any of these wires NEED to be run?

Also, the Air Temp Sensor is not wired, but I was told that was optional.

5. All 6 of the ground wires are run into 1 single wire, which is then run through the modified stock ECU, and from there I assume it runs to the engine's ground. Is that okay?

6. Pin #28 (the red wire), on the diagram posted above; what does it do/where is it supposed to go? It looks like power supply for the injectors. Is that correct?

Thanks guys,

-Andrew

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Bump. Still have unanswered questions.

-Andrew