i had the exact same problem. for a year i tried the ECU from a friend,cranck sensors, injectors,igniter,added grounding wires,TPS, i installed a HKS twin power and it got better but was never fixed. one day a friend removed the alternator from his track FD and gave it to me. it was a lot more cleaner than my original alt. when i installed the new alt. the problem disapeared. so try another alt. and se what happends, it worked for me.

and yes the coolant temp. sensor is the green one. and is used by the ECU for the AF mixture.

hope this help good luck
hugo

 

pp13,

Could you connect your boost gauge to a pre-IC, hopefully compressor outlet area, section of the intake path?

BTW: WTS cause problems? YES.

WT -> fuel compensation ratios.

If the WT signal is going off and on the PFC is going to be switching WT->F compensation ratios on you.

Head right for that sensor and wiring man.
While you're there, check the IAT sensor and wiring.

If you don't solve it there, once you get a datalogit, this problem would be solved.

 

Bump for pp13.

 

Bump for pp13.

 

My altenator charges at around 14.2 according to the commander....but if you say it thats the problem, I'll try it.

I allready checked the wiring to the air/water temp sensors.....but I'm going to replace the water sensor asap. I'll let everyone know how it goes. CJ

 

years ago i had a problem with my WTS that drove me NUTS!! for months. replaced the sensor twice along with a list of tons of other things that i realy dont care to mention. after taking an adjustable POT inline to the wire leading to the ECU, this fixed my problem. still dont know exactly what the problem was to this day. it was a bandaid fix, but atleast let me know where the problem was and that i did isolate the problem. after that i yanked the wiring harness and went with a haltech. good luck.

 

I know someone who's air temp sensor would jump in and out and everytime it would change the car would almost die, just NO power at all. The only thing is he could see it on the PFC cause the air temp would go to like -45C haha.

Dont know about the water though, it could be possible that there are multiple sensors that the computer is looking at. Seems pretty unlikely but definatly possible with as many sensors and wires as there is for the coolant system.

Good Luck man, I know it sucks to have probs like this
STEPHEN

 

I'm going to find a altenator, and a WTS, and try installing them. If that does'nt cure the problem, then its going to go up on blocks in my garage for awhile. I think I just need to take a step back and forget about it for awhile. CJ

 

If you want to try and verify if it is the WT compensation settings that are switching due to a faulty WTS do this:

1. Write down current settings on the water temp->fuel page.
2. Heat car up fully.
3. Change all WT compensation settings to be the same setting as the +80C one.
4. Drive car and see if it still hesitates/stumbles.
5. Change settings back.

If the WTS is cutting in/out fast enough it may never show up on the commander. However, if you change all of the compensation settings to be the same as the +80C setting, then it shouldn't change your fuel mixture if the sensor does cut in/out when the car is already warm.

(This is presuming the PFC doesn't have it's own internal limp mode).

 

Thanks Clayne, I'll give that a try also. I realy appreciate everyone who has helped so far. CJ

 

If I remember correctly there are two WT sensors at the back side of the water pump housing , maybe the other is used by the ECU ??.
I have an E6K and it interprits the sensor signal the same way as the stock computer, once the connector for the WT sensor accidentially came loose and my engine immediately stalled and refused to restart .
After trying unsucessfully to restart I decided to pull my plugs to inspect them and guess what , raw , liquid fuel was flowing out of the plug holes , the motor was filled with fuel !!! , I proceeded to clear the chambers and fuel also came out the tailpipe.
After poking around I found the loose connector , reattached it and she started right up. If that sensor is bad you will experience what you have been every time it decides to F%$K around.
You should also ensure that your 850cc secondarys that you now use as your primarys are sealing properly in the stock primary rail , if not there will be some leakage as your fuel pressure rises under boost which will also contribute to overly rich ratios.

 

The single wire (black/red) water temperature SWITCH is only wired to the fan relay electrical matrix. The ECU is unaware.

 

The ECU must be monitoring something as critical / important as the water temp . , thats how it knows when to cold start , hot start , advance and retard timing etc. If as you say one of those sensors is for the fans then the other is for the ECU and the one on the back plate is for the dash.

 

Correct.

1. single-pin, black plug sensor = water thermo switch, fan relays only.

2. green plug, next to thermo switch = water temp sensor, used by ECU.

3. sensor near rear rotor = gauge sensor.

 

bump for pp13

 

Water sensor and/or thermoswitch. (not sure which one it was) Very possible it's your problem...didn't think they worked the same with the upgraded ECU, but I had the same problem a month or so ago that was causing a overly rich condition, etc...(stock ECU) I changed both at the same time and it runs perfect now. The way I tracked it down was that the fans would switch OFF everytime this happened, and it only started acting up after a the engine fully warmed up.

I guess it won't hurt to change them since there easy to get to and are relitively cheap.

 

Thanks guys once again. I won't be able to work on the car until probably middle/late next week. I'm off to Prince Rupert Canada for some Salmon/Halibut fishing....errr....I mean business trip. By then, I'll have a new WTS, and the LM-1 wideband ready for install. I'll keep everyone uptodate. Later, CJ

 

One more time, the water thermo-switch has no effect on this. It is only wired to the fan relays.

 

Not trying to contest what your saying, but why did my FD run rich and cause the fans to turn off as well. Did the thermosensor cause the fans to turn off as well...or did the thermosensor give the ECU a bad signal, thus triggering the ECU to switch OFF the fans...??

Trying to understand, even though there is no problem anymore.

 

Thermosensor gave the ECU a bad signal.

The thermoswitch is a worst case/highest temp switch.

 

on the boost leak testing...

yes, air will leak around stuff... but not nearly as fast as you'd think...especially cause the throttle body will hold back most of the pressure.

you can easily hold pressure in the whole intake trac to find boost leaks.

john

 

Anouther little update.

Received the LM-1, and installed it. Picked up a used WTS from Rob@Pineapple. Installed it, and checked to see what the voltage was on the P-FC sensor check screen. It came back at something like 1.75V or something like that. This made me start to think....I wonder what the other WTS says? So I just swapped the plug to the my WTS. Checked the commander, and it read 2.45V. Same outside air tempature, and different readings! There was a .70V difference at the same tempature.

If anyone outthere has a Power FC, could you please give me your voltage while the car is cold, and what the temp. is outside?

The weather yesteday was a little nasty, so I did'nt get a chance to drive my car. Monday is suppose to be nice, so thats when I'll get the chance to see how it all works out. I'll keep everyone updated. CJ

 

Yesteday was the first chance I had to drive the car since the LM-1/WTS install. On a off ramp heading north, I rolled into the throttle in 2nd gear. Tire spin was pretty nasty all the way through 2nd. Shifted fairly easy into 3rd gear, and floored it again. To my suprise the car spun the tires all the way to the top of 3rd! I could'nt beleive the car actualy ran the way it was suppose to! On the freeway, I gave it a couple more 3rd gear pulls, and all seemed to work great. I'm going to drive the car this morning to work, and see if its still the same. But it feels great to finaly get this car performing the way its suppose to.

On anouther note, this car sounds freakin' mean under WOT/Open wastegate! And running my 14lbs (low boost setting), I'm seeing 65% duty cycles on my 850/1300 setup at a 11.0-11.2 a/f ratio according to the commander and LM-1. If you use the Maxcooper fuel calculator, It appears I'm making some realy nice power.

Thanks everyone for the input and help once again, and I'll be shure to keep everyone updated on the car.

CJ

 

Well that's great news pp13. I'm glad to hear you got it worked out.

Out of curiosity, what was your PFC showing (when warmed up) water-temp wise on the old sensor?

 

Congrads man, you sounded a fairly disheartened the other day. Glad it is working to your expectations.