Adaptronic, Haltech, PFC and AEM Discussion
#52
Corn Fed FD
iTrader: (1)
Am I kidding my self? I newer once said adaptronic is better or more powerful unit than the aem,
i also did not compare it to series 2, I can only comment on what I have used not what I hear
or read on forums, just like the thread started about pros and cons that's what I posted,
I did not change my mind for the decision I made, aem or pro efi was over my budget for this car, so was 1350 for the 440 universal with 2 meter loom i got, like I said for me was a great bang for the buck, or best bang for the budget I was in, now for my other projects like my lotuses or my twin turbo pte6262cea fd I am looking at aem, pro efi, or 1280 adaptronic,
how ever ecu's are the last Item I buy for the projects I work on, made that mistake with microwreck when I ordered long before my project was finished.
how ever I wish both adaptronic and fb great sales and success with their offers
i also did not compare it to series 2, I can only comment on what I have used not what I hear
or read on forums, just like the thread started about pros and cons that's what I posted,
I did not change my mind for the decision I made, aem or pro efi was over my budget for this car, so was 1350 for the 440 universal with 2 meter loom i got, like I said for me was a great bang for the buck, or best bang for the budget I was in, now for my other projects like my lotuses or my twin turbo pte6262cea fd I am looking at aem, pro efi, or 1280 adaptronic,
how ever ecu's are the last Item I buy for the projects I work on, made that mistake with microwreck when I ordered long before my project was finished.
how ever I wish both adaptronic and fb great sales and success with their offers
#53
Too Many Projects
iTrader: (10)
Nothing I say is meant as a personal attack...it just isn't something I do. When I say "you are kidding yourself" and don't quote someone specifically, "you" means the reader in general, whoever that may be. Sorry if I offended you in some way.
In a perfect world, threads like these would only focus on the facts, wouldn't compare apples to oranges, and wouldn't turn into pissing matches littered with personal attacks.
EDIT: Also wanted to say that I'm not endorsing either product. I am really on the fence between the two and think the AEM is a great/proven ecu, while the Adaptronic has a lot of great features and will continually get better as it is developed.
In a perfect world, threads like these would only focus on the facts, wouldn't compare apples to oranges, and wouldn't turn into pissing matches littered with personal attacks.
EDIT: Also wanted to say that I'm not endorsing either product. I am really on the fence between the two and think the AEM is a great/proven ecu, while the Adaptronic has a lot of great features and will continually get better as it is developed.
#54
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...adaptronic advantage over series 1 aem
owner that's active and forum vendor, handles threads very fast and professionally,
he does not attach his ecu brand to topics with other ecu's that pick up momentum in sales and popularity for marketing
on adaptronic I hook headphones and listen for knock, I can tune with ignition off even with ecu unplugged from harness, ve great and very fast self tuning, serial input for wideband and more,....I also think adaptronic is great bang for the buck
owner that's active and forum vendor, handles threads very fast and professionally,
he does not attach his ecu brand to topics with other ecu's that pick up momentum in sales and popularity for marketing
on adaptronic I hook headphones and listen for knock, I can tune with ignition off even with ecu unplugged from harness, ve great and very fast self tuning, serial input for wideband and more,....I also think adaptronic is great bang for the buck
Also on aem if you decide to change to ffe hall or back to reluctor trigger wheel setup, u need to open the aem box to change jumpers on board,
if you want to change ignition coil trigger setups you also need to open the ecu box and split the fragile circuit board to move jumpers around.
You can do this with few clicks on adaptronic software
if you want to change ignition coil trigger setups you also need to open the ecu box and split the fragile circuit board to move jumpers around.
You can do this with few clicks on adaptronic software
i also did not compare it to series 2, I can only comment on what I have used not what I hear or read on forums, just like the thread started about pros and cons that's what I posted,
I did not change my mind for the decision I made, aem or pro efi was over my budget for this car, so was 1350 for the 440 universal with 2 meter loom i got, like I said for me was a great bang for the buck, or best bang for the budget I was in,
FWIW, I have already expressed to tony that I mean no personal harm to him nor do I take anything he says personally. We are just having a friendly discussion.
EB Turbo
#55
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stock MAP goes to 17psi. Lets say you want to run 25psi of boost. On a 4 bar MAP sensor you are only using 46% of the map sensor range. You do not have the ability to scale your own load breakpoints. So you are reducing your load resolution significantly. You will now have load breakpoints every 4.6psi. You will loose the top 7 rows of your fuel map. That is a 43% reduction in fuel table resolution.
EB Turbo
#56
rotary powered
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=EB Turbo;11455954]Honestly AEM Sales could care less about the RX7 application. They sell more Honda ecus in one month then they did the entire RX7 line. That is why there is no PnP FD ECU. If you go and add up all of the Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Toyota sales it is way more than any of those other ECU companies could ever hope for. The new generation of AEM ECU will be the best in the market only rivaled by MoTeC M1 line, Pectel, and a few other one off EMS companies. and it will be done at almost half of the cost of the other ECUs.
How am I bashing the Adaptronic ECU. All I am doing is stating the fact that adaptronic and its customers claim "We offer the highest performance, most powerful ECUs in their price range.". This so far off it is not even funny. I think you just need to admit to yourself you could have had a Ferrari for your Honda price tag.
I find this amusing.. the problem as you have clearly stated is aem dont care nearly as much about their rotary customers as adaptronic do.. its pretty clear from their sales and attitude towards them you mention above. I commend you on your efforts in flying the flag for aem and the support you provide for customers however it is poor business practice to attempt to critique your opposition particularly going as far as offending andy in his own subforum section. No question the aem series 2 is a great product.. however the aem series 1 wasnt really so good perhaps thats the reason why others have opted to go another route.
Either way I went for the 440 select ecu.. do I regret it having read about the series 2.. not 1 bit. I have never had better service from a company and I know that I will continue to with andy being a rotary fan pushing development forward for us as quickly as its requested. Its simplified setup along with its tuning modes are what sold it for me along with most importantly the passion behind the product through support and listening to their customers and going to great extents to ensuring any issues are sorted(which are typically few and far between) personally. I encourage anyone who has an adaptronic to stick with it.. its the beginning of something big and 1 of the best ecus for the rotor community period.
The sad thing is as much as you sit there and bang on about how your not doing anything to bash adaptronic.. you obviously are.. you simply cant accept that forum members are buying his product over yours.. well tough buddy. Move on. Return to your support role for aem. The way you attacked Tony for his purchase was shameful he is happy with his purchase he explained why and you shot him down for it.
And as for your previous comment about why andy hasnt chimed in.. its because unlike you he wouldnt go to such poor levels as to attempt to improve sales.. he does it on the back of hardwork, honesty and integrity.
Its clear to everyone why you started this thread you will say to educate people but the sole purpose was to degrade other products and the fellow members who bought them. I agree with Tony Unprofessional indeed.
How am I bashing the Adaptronic ECU. All I am doing is stating the fact that adaptronic and its customers claim "We offer the highest performance, most powerful ECUs in their price range.". This so far off it is not even funny. I think you just need to admit to yourself you could have had a Ferrari for your Honda price tag.
I find this amusing.. the problem as you have clearly stated is aem dont care nearly as much about their rotary customers as adaptronic do.. its pretty clear from their sales and attitude towards them you mention above. I commend you on your efforts in flying the flag for aem and the support you provide for customers however it is poor business practice to attempt to critique your opposition particularly going as far as offending andy in his own subforum section. No question the aem series 2 is a great product.. however the aem series 1 wasnt really so good perhaps thats the reason why others have opted to go another route.
Either way I went for the 440 select ecu.. do I regret it having read about the series 2.. not 1 bit. I have never had better service from a company and I know that I will continue to with andy being a rotary fan pushing development forward for us as quickly as its requested. Its simplified setup along with its tuning modes are what sold it for me along with most importantly the passion behind the product through support and listening to their customers and going to great extents to ensuring any issues are sorted(which are typically few and far between) personally. I encourage anyone who has an adaptronic to stick with it.. its the beginning of something big and 1 of the best ecus for the rotor community period.
The sad thing is as much as you sit there and bang on about how your not doing anything to bash adaptronic.. you obviously are.. you simply cant accept that forum members are buying his product over yours.. well tough buddy. Move on. Return to your support role for aem. The way you attacked Tony for his purchase was shameful he is happy with his purchase he explained why and you shot him down for it.
And as for your previous comment about why andy hasnt chimed in.. its because unlike you he wouldnt go to such poor levels as to attempt to improve sales.. he does it on the back of hardwork, honesty and integrity.
Its clear to everyone why you started this thread you will say to educate people but the sole purpose was to degrade other products and the fellow members who bought them. I agree with Tony Unprofessional indeed.
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I commend you on your efforts in flying the flag for aem and the support you provide for customers however it is poor business practice to attempt to critique your opposition particularly going as far as offending andy in his own subforum section.
No question the aem series 2 is a great product.. however the aem series 1 wasnt really so good perhaps thats the reason why others have opted to go another route.
Either way I went for the 440 select ecu.. do I regret it having read about the series 2.. not 1 bit. I have never had better service from a company and I know that I will continue to with andy being a rotary fan pushing development forward for us as quickly as its requested. Its simplified setup along with its tuning modes are what sold it for me along with most importantly the passion behind the product through support and listening to their customers and going to great extents to ensuring any issues are sorted(which are typically few and far between) personally. I encourage anyone who has an adaptronic to stick with it.. its the beginning of something big ..
..and 1 of the best ecus for the rotor community period.
The sad thing is as much as you sit there and bang on about how your not doing anything to bash adaptronic.. you obviously are.. you simply cant accept that forum members are buying his product over yours.. well tough buddy. Move on. Return to your support role for aem. The way you attacked Tony for his purchase was shameful he is happy with his purchase he explained why and you shot him down for it.
And as for your previous comment about why andy hasnt chimed in.. its because unlike you he wouldnt go to such poor levels as to attempt to improve sales.. he does it on the back of hardwork, honesty and integrity.
Its clear to everyone why you started this thread you will say to educate people but the sole purpose was to degrade other products and the fellow members who bought them. I agree with Tony Unprofessional indeed.
If you feel like what you have is better I am more than willing to debate it with you. If you do not I wish you the best of luck. There are members on here that will confirm, as much as I down talk the Adaptronic I still give support for it. You would be suprised how much logic you can take from other ECUs to make the adaptronic work.
EB Turbo
#58
Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
So the AEM v2 can control the entire twin turbo system? I was under the impression that it wasn't able to.
You also mentioned that it was plug and play? I'm interested. I have two tuner friends and one dislikes the AEM, the other says he likes the S1 over the S2. Also mentioned something about timing walk on certain other brands of ECUs outside of AEM v1 and the PFC. So you have any idea why a preference might be made for the v1 over the v2? I do like the flex fuel update though.
The big attraction for me to the Adpatronic is the plug-and play factor - and I'm no ECU expert but I became to feel the squeeze of certain limitations that seemed pretty much like having to make constant tradeoffs. Their higher end ECU seems like what I should be purchasing, but the install time is something I can hardly afford on a DD with school quickly approaching. So look like it's the Adaptronic Select which I'm becoming more leery of (unfortunate because I already purchased the boost controller for it) but the OMP and twins I guess make it overly complicated. So I just sold my PFC and am now getting cold feet and exploring my options. My tuner I'm sure will tell me Haltech, but looking to learn a bit more about my options and AEM units are definitely something I'm exploring before I go find another Power FC.
You also mentioned that it was plug and play? I'm interested. I have two tuner friends and one dislikes the AEM, the other says he likes the S1 over the S2. Also mentioned something about timing walk on certain other brands of ECUs outside of AEM v1 and the PFC. So you have any idea why a preference might be made for the v1 over the v2? I do like the flex fuel update though.
The big attraction for me to the Adpatronic is the plug-and play factor - and I'm no ECU expert but I became to feel the squeeze of certain limitations that seemed pretty much like having to make constant tradeoffs. Their higher end ECU seems like what I should be purchasing, but the install time is something I can hardly afford on a DD with school quickly approaching. So look like it's the Adaptronic Select which I'm becoming more leery of (unfortunate because I already purchased the boost controller for it) but the OMP and twins I guess make it overly complicated. So I just sold my PFC and am now getting cold feet and exploring my options. My tuner I'm sure will tell me Haltech, but looking to learn a bit more about my options and AEM units are definitely something I'm exploring before I go find another Power FC.
#59
So the AEM v2 can control the entire twin turbo system? I was under the impression that it wasn't able to.
You also mentioned that it was plug and play? I'm interested. I have two tuner friends and one dislikes the AEM, the other says he likes the S1 over the S2. Also mentioned something about timing walk on certain other brands of ECUs outside of AEM v1 and the PFC. So you have any idea why a preference might be made for the v1 over the v2? I do like the flex fuel update though.
The big attraction for me to the Adpatronic is the plug-and play factor - and I'm no ECU expert but I became to feel the squeeze of certain limitations that seemed pretty much like having to make constant tradeoffs. Their higher end ECU seems like what I should be purchasing, but the install time is something I can hardly afford on a DD with school quickly approaching. So look like it's the Adaptronic Select which I'm becoming more leery of (unfortunate because I already purchased the boost controller for it) but the OMP and twins I guess make it overly complicated. So I just sold my PFC and am now getting cold feet and exploring my options. My tuner I'm sure will tell me Haltech, but looking to learn a bit more about my options and AEM units are definitely something I'm exploring before I go find another Power FC.
You also mentioned that it was plug and play? I'm interested. I have two tuner friends and one dislikes the AEM, the other says he likes the S1 over the S2. Also mentioned something about timing walk on certain other brands of ECUs outside of AEM v1 and the PFC. So you have any idea why a preference might be made for the v1 over the v2? I do like the flex fuel update though.
The big attraction for me to the Adpatronic is the plug-and play factor - and I'm no ECU expert but I became to feel the squeeze of certain limitations that seemed pretty much like having to make constant tradeoffs. Their higher end ECU seems like what I should be purchasing, but the install time is something I can hardly afford on a DD with school quickly approaching. So look like it's the Adaptronic Select which I'm becoming more leery of (unfortunate because I already purchased the boost controller for it) but the OMP and twins I guess make it overly complicated. So I just sold my PFC and am now getting cold feet and exploring my options. My tuner I'm sure will tell me Haltech, but looking to learn a bit more about my options and AEM units are definitely something I'm exploring before I go find another Power FC.
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You also mentioned that it was plug and play? I'm interested. I have two tuner friends and one dislikes the AEM, the other says he likes the S1 over the S2. Also mentioned something about timing walk on certain other brands of ECUs outside of AEM v1 and the PFC. So you have any idea why a preference might be made for the v1 over the v2? I do like the flex fuel update though.
The big attraction for me to the Adpatronic is the plug-and play factor - and I'm no ECU expert but I became to feel the squeeze of certain limitations that seemed pretty much like having to make constant tradeoffs.
The AEM however can use OMP, Full sequential turbo control, A/C control, emissions controls and still have 4 0-5v inputs, 2 spare sw inputs, spare injector drivers, spare coil drivers, spare low side outputs, Flex Fuel... The basic AEM PnP kit is just the beginning.
Their higher end ECU seems like what I should be purchasing, but the install time is something I can hardly afford on a DD with school quickly approaching. So look like it's the Adaptronic Select which I'm becoming more leery of (unfortunate because I already purchased the boost controller for it) but the OMP and twins I guess make it overly complicated. So I just sold my PFC and am now getting cold feet and exploring my options. My tuner I'm sure will tell me Haltech, but looking to learn a bit more about my options and AEM units are definitely something I'm exploring before I go find another Power FC.
EB Turbo
#65
Senior Member
But if you are really interested in building your own and want a truly configurable platform look at megasquirt. The new MSIII has bunches of outputs and you have access to the firmware to configure it however you want. And the you would have the full support of the whole community!
#66
Ian: Yes, that's correct. I don't know how likely it is to pass an actual emission test without driving all those functions but then the physical emissions tests vary a lot from state to state and country to country. Especially since you can put on a Euro 4 cat and run it on E85 these days, which weren't available in 1988.
Vicoor: completely correct, but it's not that the rotary market is so small, it's that the part of the market that cares about having all the factory emissions controls working is so small. You could use the 1280 and then implement any functions that you wanted to in the logic; you can implement any tables, timers, PID controllers, logic etc. I can't comment on the MS but having access to the firmware obviously gives you complete control!
Vicoor: completely correct, but it's not that the rotary market is so small, it's that the part of the market that cares about having all the factory emissions controls working is so small. You could use the 1280 and then implement any functions that you wanted to in the logic; you can implement any tables, timers, PID controllers, logic etc. I can't comment on the MS but having access to the firmware obviously gives you complete control!
#67
It is very unlikely that a manufacturer of standalone engine management is going to dedicate the resources to make a PNP for something like an RX7 do to the small size of the market.
But if you are really interested in building your own and want a truly configurable platform look at megasquirt. The new MSIII has bunches of outputs and you have access to the firmware to configure it however you want. And the you would have the full support of the whole community!
But if you are really interested in building your own and want a truly configurable platform look at megasquirt. The new MSIII has bunches of outputs and you have access to the firmware to configure it however you want. And the you would have the full support of the whole community!
#68
I OWN THE BEST CAR EVER
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CYPRUS
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pfc is a piece of junk?
All you are telling me is that you have no faith in the people around you. Its hard to fly like an eagle when you are surrounded by turkey's, am I right??
I am only making observations based on things I have seen you say. I stand behind my previous comments.
That's not what it looks like to me..
I want to thank Adaptronic on making such an amazing product that they can come into a dieing market and get a bunch of people to go from one piece of junk(PFC) to the Adaptronic without actually looking at what they were buying. I wish I could offer a sub par product and get a bunch of people to buy it.
It is like the blind leading the blind here. I am just trying to show you the light..
My product is far from being discontinued. and Your welcome..
EB Turbo
Asalam o alikum
I am only making observations based on things I have seen you say. I stand behind my previous comments.
That's not what it looks like to me..
I want to thank Adaptronic on making such an amazing product that they can come into a dieing market and get a bunch of people to go from one piece of junk(PFC) to the Adaptronic without actually looking at what they were buying. I wish I could offer a sub par product and get a bunch of people to buy it.
It is like the blind leading the blind here. I am just trying to show you the light..
My product is far from being discontinued. and Your welcome..
EB Turbo
Asalam o alikum
Well please can you answer me this easy question?
If PFC its a piece of Junk, then why the 70% of the people in United States and about 80% of people in Japan still using this "piece of junk" in their rotary cars?
Are they "stupid or something" if there are so much better ECU units like the above you mention?
Thanks
#69
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear friend i'm just wondering about your phrase that go from one piece of junk(PFC) to the Adaptronic without actually looking at what they were buying.
Well please can you answer me this easy question?
If PFC its a piece of Junk, then why the 70% of the people in United States and about 80% of people in Japan still using this "piece of junk" in their rotary cars?
Are they "stupid or something" if there are so much better ECU units like the above you mention?
Thanks
Well please can you answer me this easy question?
If PFC its a piece of Junk, then why the 70% of the people in United States and about 80% of people in Japan still using this "piece of junk" in their rotary cars?
Are they "stupid or something" if there are so much better ECU units like the above you mention?
Thanks
If you want to change injectors in your PFC how easy is it?
If you want to change a MAP sensor how easy is it?
If you want to run E85 how easy is it?
How comprehensive is the boost control?
Does your standard data cable allow you to change all of the parameters in the ECU?
Can you change to different and better sensors, Knock, Air temp,....
Can it take a wideband input and make corrections from it?
The PFC works well for what it was designed for. The PFC has been outdated hardware for a long time. You cant argue that.
EB Turbo
#70
I OWN THE BEST CAR EVER
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: CYPRUS
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you are telling me if a lot of people own something, that makes it a good product? What is common in the market place is not always the best product available.
If you want to change injectors in your PFC how easy is it?
If you want to change a MAP sensor how easy is it?
If you want to run E85 how easy is it?
How comprehensive is the boost control?
Does your standard data cable allow you to change all of the parameters in the ECU?
Can you change to different and better sensors, Knock, Air temp,....
Can it take a wideband input and make corrections from it?
The PFC works well for what it was designed for. The PFC has been outdated hardware for a long time. You cant argue that.
EB Turbo
If you want to change injectors in your PFC how easy is it?
If you want to change a MAP sensor how easy is it?
If you want to run E85 how easy is it?
How comprehensive is the boost control?
Does your standard data cable allow you to change all of the parameters in the ECU?
Can you change to different and better sensors, Knock, Air temp,....
Can it take a wideband input and make corrections from it?
The PFC works well for what it was designed for. The PFC has been outdated hardware for a long time. You cant argue that.
EB Turbo
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Monica
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And this is why its the most reliable unit in the market, not just now, but from lot of years before and it will remain for a lot years coming. Japanese high quality. And what its the most important thing in our cars? Reliability! And what its the most important thing according reliability on our rotary engines? Ecu and not a failure of it while driving. I know a lot of series 6-7-8 that all of them have PFC ECU. No one of those ever brake beacause of the ecu failure. You cant arque with that either.
EB Turbo
#72
3rd Gen. Parts Lurker
iTrader: (9)
I agree in all of the above you said. And in your last phrase i dont arque at all. But exactly in that point of what you said "The PFC works well for what it was designed for" this is i believe the most important reason that so many people have it. And this is why its the most reliable unit in the market, not just now, but from lot of years before and it will remain for a lot years coming. Japanese high quality. And what its the most important thing in our cars? Reliability! And what its the most important thing according reliability on our rotary engines? Ecu and not a failure of it while driving. I know a lot of series 6-7-8 that all of them have PFC ECU. No one of those ever brake beacause of the ecu failure. You cant arque with that either.
#75
You should also have a read through this;
Adaptronic Engine Management Systems | TurboSource