Powerblock
09-09-14, 09:26 PM
#1
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Powerblock
Just a little link
HorsePower Explores the "Chemical Intercooler" | Horsepower | PowerBlockTV - Full Episodes
What I have taken away from this the fact that the right AI mix is hard to Freeze and that if i ran a co2 system on my fuel and AI and maybe my Intercooler my intake temps would plummet
Guess it all comes down to how cold is to cold
I have also picked up that little amounts of Nitro-methane will give you a small kick as well
Anyone have any input?
HorsePower Explores the "Chemical Intercooler" | Horsepower | PowerBlockTV - Full Episodes
What I have taken away from this the fact that the right AI mix is hard to Freeze and that if i ran a co2 system on my fuel and AI and maybe my Intercooler my intake temps would plummet
Guess it all comes down to how cold is to coldI have also picked up that little amounts of Nitro-methane will give you a small kick as well
Anyone have any input?
09-09-14, 11:50 PM
#2
talking head
copious sponsor messages.. inserted here ..
nothing at all new in there , except maybe they did not mentions that a 50/50 mix is to prevent freezing about 25000 feet in the air
.. aint too many race tracks that high
the 50/50 mix is optimized so it can still be used at altitude.. where a 30/70 one cannot
MW30 ( 30% methanol ) has better qualities at lower altitudes
( both on lowering inlet temps / improving inlet efficiency and for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction )
water is better for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction
and straight methanol better for its improvement to the air inlet temps and inlet efficiency
.. but it seems they skipped that ( very important ) point
as for using n02 .. co2 .. or LPG gasses for the latent heat exchange
( note , chemical intercooling could not be more wrong a label )
then you have to worry about them being ingested by the aircleaner
somewhat removing all the gains from the intercooling,,
by either displacing the inlet air stream volumes and or making the engine run far too rich ( co2 ) ( LPG )
by leaning out the engine with too much avail oxygen ( n02 )
venting LPG also brings the added drama of the external fire hazard
,, while n02 and c02 will bring asphyxiation risk when used in confined spaces
at this point, another alcohol/ water mix looks best as an external spray on the otside of the intercooler to get more cooling from the same size core
however.. totally frowned on at the track for obvious reason
for drag racing purpose then suspect the easiest option is to build a tray on your intercooler
and place solid c02 on there ( with tongs ! ) to sublime
nothing at all new in there , except maybe they did not mentions that a 50/50 mix is to prevent freezing about 25000 feet in the air
.. aint too many race tracks that high
the 50/50 mix is optimized so it can still be used at altitude.. where a 30/70 one cannot
MW30 ( 30% methanol ) has better qualities at lower altitudes
( both on lowering inlet temps / improving inlet efficiency and for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction )
water is better for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction
and straight methanol better for its improvement to the air inlet temps and inlet efficiency
.. but it seems they skipped that ( very important ) point
as for using n02 .. co2 .. or LPG gasses for the latent heat exchange
( note , chemical intercooling could not be more wrong a label )
then you have to worry about them being ingested by the aircleaner
somewhat removing all the gains from the intercooling,,
by either displacing the inlet air stream volumes and or making the engine run far too rich ( co2 ) ( LPG )
by leaning out the engine with too much avail oxygen ( n02 )
venting LPG also brings the added drama of the external fire hazard
,, while n02 and c02 will bring asphyxiation risk when used in confined spaces
at this point, another alcohol/ water mix looks best as an external spray on the otside of the intercooler to get more cooling from the same size core
however.. totally frowned on at the track for obvious reason
for drag racing purpose then suspect the easiest option is to build a tray on your intercooler
and place solid c02 on there ( with tongs ! ) to sublime
09-10-14, 12:26 AM
#3
talking head
PS
adding nitromethane to the fuel lowers its effective octane and also will lean down the mixture massively as it is runs at 1.67:1 to be stoic ( petrol is 14.7 parts air to one part fuel )
thoroughly not recommended !
and also PS.. most people incorrectly mix by volumes, when it should be by mass
50:50 in volumes
is actually 55% water and 45% methanol when viewed as mass
adding nitromethane to the fuel lowers its effective octane and also will lean down the mixture massively as it is runs at 1.67:1 to be stoic ( petrol is 14.7 parts air to one part fuel )
thoroughly not recommended !
and also PS.. most people incorrectly mix by volumes, when it should be by mass
50:50 in volumes
is actually 55% water and 45% methanol when viewed as mass
Last edited by bumpstart; 09-10-14 at 12:29 AM.
09-10-14, 01:20 AM
#4
Full Member
Thread Starter
copious sponsor messages.. inserted here ..
nothing at all new in there , except maybe they did not mentions that a 50/50 mix is to prevent freezing about 25000 feet in the air
.. aint too many race tracks that high
the 50/50 mix is optimized so it can still be used at altitude.. where a 30/70 one cannot
MW30 ( 30% methanol ) has better qualities at lower altitudes
( both on lowering inlet temps / improving inlet efficiency and for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction )
water is better for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction
and straight methanol better for its improvement to the air inlet temps and inlet efficiency
.. but it seems they skipped that ( very important ) point
as for using n02 .. co2 .. or LPG gasses for the latent heat exchange
( note , chemical intercooling could not be more wrong a label )
then you have to worry about them being ingested by the aircleaner
somewhat removing all the gains from the intercooling,,
by either displacing the inlet air stream volumes and or making the engine run far too rich ( co2 ) ( LPG )
by leaning out the engine with too much avail oxygen ( n02 )
venting LPG also brings the added drama of the external fire hazard
,, while n02 and c02 will bring asphyxiation risk when used in confined spaces
at this point, another alcohol/ water mix looks best as an external spray on the otside of the intercooler to get more cooling from the same size core
however.. totally frowned on at the track for obvious reason
for drag racing purpose then suspect the easiest option is to build a tray on your intercooler
and place solid c02 on there ( with tongs ! ) to sublime
nothing at all new in there , except maybe they did not mentions that a 50/50 mix is to prevent freezing about 25000 feet in the air
.. aint too many race tracks that high
the 50/50 mix is optimized so it can still be used at altitude.. where a 30/70 one cannot
MW30 ( 30% methanol ) has better qualities at lower altitudes
( both on lowering inlet temps / improving inlet efficiency and for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction )
water is better for detonation suppression / exhaust temp reduction
and straight methanol better for its improvement to the air inlet temps and inlet efficiency
.. but it seems they skipped that ( very important ) point
as for using n02 .. co2 .. or LPG gasses for the latent heat exchange
( note , chemical intercooling could not be more wrong a label )
then you have to worry about them being ingested by the aircleaner
somewhat removing all the gains from the intercooling,,
by either displacing the inlet air stream volumes and or making the engine run far too rich ( co2 ) ( LPG )
by leaning out the engine with too much avail oxygen ( n02 )
venting LPG also brings the added drama of the external fire hazard
,, while n02 and c02 will bring asphyxiation risk when used in confined spaces
at this point, another alcohol/ water mix looks best as an external spray on the otside of the intercooler to get more cooling from the same size core
however.. totally frowned on at the track for obvious reason
for drag racing purpose then suspect the easiest option is to build a tray on your intercooler
and place solid c02 on there ( with tongs ! ) to sublime
I was more pointing towards CO2 cooling the fuel, e85 in my case and the 50/50 water methanol with one of the co2/nos style kits like the DEI Cry systems not LPG, that sounds very bad.
You can dump waste gas away from the bay. Freezing cold AI I would like to think would get better results.
09-10-14, 01:55 AM
#5
talking head
well a fuel chiller is nothing new
( just a copper coil in a can you drop the dry ice into )
and most certainly will help
though i am dubious that the weight , complexity of a co2 cry spray system will bring the gains you wish from it
and the fact it will be drawn in by the engine
if the car is not moving and the airflow ducted away will make you easily lose something somewhere
a simple conductive tray around the inter-cooler that will hold a few blocks of dry ice
will do all the same things with none of the cost
methinks you have missed a contender for dropping the inlet charge temps and improving the octane rating
in NH3 /aqua/ urea
i suspect in the right mixtures it may even be better than methanol AI
in terms of the net effect on inlet temp, inlet density , octane ( 130 ) and lowering flame speed and dropping N0x
while comparable on fuel density and energy weight for weight
anhydrous ammonia is a bit impractical .// as it freezes and asphyxiates
though its containment and delivery systems are similar to LPG requirements
but blends of aqua ( NH3 + H20 ) and also urea and water CO( NH2 )2 +H20
need only a good cap seal .. and quality stainless steel fittings.. on your already A1 systems
( just a copper coil in a can you drop the dry ice into )
and most certainly will help
though i am dubious that the weight , complexity of a co2 cry spray system will bring the gains you wish from it
and the fact it will be drawn in by the engine
if the car is not moving and the airflow ducted away will make you easily lose something somewhere
a simple conductive tray around the inter-cooler that will hold a few blocks of dry ice
will do all the same things with none of the cost
methinks you have missed a contender for dropping the inlet charge temps and improving the octane rating
in NH3 /aqua/ urea
i suspect in the right mixtures it may even be better than methanol AI
in terms of the net effect on inlet temp, inlet density , octane ( 130 ) and lowering flame speed and dropping N0x
while comparable on fuel density and energy weight for weight
anhydrous ammonia is a bit impractical .// as it freezes and asphyxiates
though its containment and delivery systems are similar to LPG requirements
but blends of aqua ( NH3 + H20 ) and also urea and water CO( NH2 )2 +H20
need only a good cap seal .. and quality stainless steel fittings.. on your already A1 systems
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