Adaptronic No start
12-06-16, 09:46 PM
#2
Hey so I saw your post about the "no start issue"
As GoodfellaFD3S is way way way beyond my expertise level I would first try what he suggested below.
That being said, I've had a good amount of experience with the adaptronic and I have continually ran into the same startup issues that people have when using basemap that came with any version of WARI.
If you can post the tune file you are using on here I'll gladly take a look. If you have spark/air/fuel and it isn't starting I would be willing to bet the plugs are fouled due to there being too much fuel sprayed during cranking. Send info when you can and I'll get you sorted.
Skeese
As GoodfellaFD3S is way way way beyond my expertise level I would first try what he suggested below.
Make sure the coil harness is grounded directly to the battery with robust grounding wires. Also it may seem like a small thing but if you aren't already, apply dielectric grease to the inner area of the wire boot where it contacts the ceramic on the plugs. In my experience, this ignition system is awesome---- BUT you have to make sure it's working properly.
If you can post the tune file you are using on here I'll gladly take a look. If you have spark/air/fuel and it isn't starting I would be willing to bet the plugs are fouled due to there being too much fuel sprayed during cranking. Send info when you can and I'll get you sorted.
Skeese
12-07-16, 09:59 PM
#3
Wooooohooooooooo. I love rocket science. I can't believe nobody took the time to actually look into this.
1. The injector dead times are not correct. If these are FIC (fuel injector clinic) 1000's and 2000's the setup is all wrong on a few levels. Finding the correct injector dead times and setting up correctly the deadtime/flow/injector size fields are critical to the entire ECU fueling operation. I'll found dead times online through FIC however they provide them on a different scale than the adaptronic input table so I'll have to interpolate in a few places. I'll post the values tomorrow as well as the updated tune file.
2. Cranking fuel is WAY too high, which isn't any fault of the owner. The cranking fuel table in the adaptronic basemap cranking table is way way way too rich and always has been. I honestly can't say how many people I've run into who had issues with failure to fire, flooded engines, and fouled plugs. I've mentioned this a number of times in regards to the base map being updated but it never was. Sooooooo as with 9/10 cars with this issue on startup, it needs less fuel. I'll post the values that repetitively work and fix this issue as well as update the tune with them.
3. Hi/Low Map Enrichment. The gap is too big between the tables, again as this is how the basemap comes. In short, this is going to cause the ECU to have large trim fluctuation and a wild lean/rich hunt during warm-up. I'll update this with a closer set of values that will minimize the hunting and allow the car to warm up at a reasonable AFR. Those in the table now will cause you to be stupid rich on warmup.
I don't have time tonight to update the tune file, but I will tomorrow for sure. As I'm assuming the motor has likely been flooded I'm going to recommend that before you start it again you pull and clean plugs with brass brush and carb cleaner. While plugs are out, pull the yellow & green master fuse relay brick things (so as to kill power to the fuel pump), and then with the spark plugs still out and the holes open get in the car, mash the throttle to 100%, and turn the key letting the starter turn the motor over and pump any excess fuel flooding the motor out of the spark plug holes. I read all sorts of **** online but doing this 3 times for 10 seconds each, waiting 5 minutes, then another 3 times for 10 seconds each always worked for me. Pour a small amount of motor oil into the lower spark plug holes (I used a turkey baster and just inserted a very small amount) which will help raise compression on the initial re-fire. Re-install fuses, re-install spark plugs, re-install spark plug wires being 100% sure they are on the plug they are supposed to be on.
I'll get you the updated tune file tomorrow. If the ignitions is working correctly as described and you go through the de-flooding procedure above and load the tune file with the right injector dead times, lower cranking fuel values, and lower/closer hi-low coolant enrichment warmup values then you should have a happily idling car shortly after. I'm confident this will fix the issue you have, it won't be the first time A+B has equaled C.
Word.
Tune Incoming.
Skeese
1. The injector dead times are not correct. If these are FIC (fuel injector clinic) 1000's and 2000's the setup is all wrong on a few levels. Finding the correct injector dead times and setting up correctly the deadtime/flow/injector size fields are critical to the entire ECU fueling operation. I'll found dead times online through FIC however they provide them on a different scale than the adaptronic input table so I'll have to interpolate in a few places. I'll post the values tomorrow as well as the updated tune file.
2. Cranking fuel is WAY too high, which isn't any fault of the owner. The cranking fuel table in the adaptronic basemap cranking table is way way way too rich and always has been. I honestly can't say how many people I've run into who had issues with failure to fire, flooded engines, and fouled plugs. I've mentioned this a number of times in regards to the base map being updated but it never was. Sooooooo as with 9/10 cars with this issue on startup, it needs less fuel. I'll post the values that repetitively work and fix this issue as well as update the tune with them.
3. Hi/Low Map Enrichment. The gap is too big between the tables, again as this is how the basemap comes. In short, this is going to cause the ECU to have large trim fluctuation and a wild lean/rich hunt during warm-up. I'll update this with a closer set of values that will minimize the hunting and allow the car to warm up at a reasonable AFR. Those in the table now will cause you to be stupid rich on warmup.
I don't have time tonight to update the tune file, but I will tomorrow for sure. As I'm assuming the motor has likely been flooded I'm going to recommend that before you start it again you pull and clean plugs with brass brush and carb cleaner. While plugs are out, pull the yellow & green master fuse relay brick things (so as to kill power to the fuel pump), and then with the spark plugs still out and the holes open get in the car, mash the throttle to 100%, and turn the key letting the starter turn the motor over and pump any excess fuel flooding the motor out of the spark plug holes. I read all sorts of **** online but doing this 3 times for 10 seconds each, waiting 5 minutes, then another 3 times for 10 seconds each always worked for me. Pour a small amount of motor oil into the lower spark plug holes (I used a turkey baster and just inserted a very small amount) which will help raise compression on the initial re-fire. Re-install fuses, re-install spark plugs, re-install spark plug wires being 100% sure they are on the plug they are supposed to be on.
I'll get you the updated tune file tomorrow. If the ignitions is working correctly as described and you go through the de-flooding procedure above and load the tune file with the right injector dead times, lower cranking fuel values, and lower/closer hi-low coolant enrichment warmup values then you should have a happily idling car shortly after. I'm confident this will fix the issue you have, it won't be the first time A+B has equaled C.
Word.
Tune Incoming.
Skeese
12-08-16, 11:51 AM
#4
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: pembroke, massachusetts
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the help. I can attempt to start it Saturday once I get the file and I will post the results! Let me know your paypal, I definitely owe you.
12-08-16, 02:41 PM
#5
Do you happen to have the data sheets that came with the injectors? I found what I think are the right dead times online but I want to be sure. I'm not familiar with the FIC injectors
Skeese
Last edited by Skeese; 12-08-16 at 03:06 PM.
12-09-16, 06:51 AM
#7
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: pembroke, massachusetts
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also understand your not pay to play but id like to show you the appreciation for your efforts once I get eh map. This forum has changed a lot over the last 15 years and is like to know there is a still good group on it.
Trending Topics
12-09-16, 08:36 AM
#9
I updated the file for cranking and warmup and I think found the correct dead times. I still need to drop them into my interpolation spreadsheet but for sure I'll have the file sent to you today.
I do highly recommend you pull and clean the plugs as well as the rest of the deflood process prior to starting as well as make sure the battery has plenty of juice to fire it.
Its amazing what will happen if you use the right mixture and add some spark
Skeese
12-09-16, 06:58 PM
#10
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: pembroke, massachusetts
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's get you running first and foremost.
I updated the file for cranking and warmup and I think found the correct dead times. I still need to drop them into my interpolation spreadsheet but for sure I'll have the file sent to you today.
I do highly recommend you pull and clean the plugs as well as the rest of the deflood process prior to starting as well as make sure the battery has plenty of juice to fire it.
Its amazing what will happen if you use the right mixture and add some spark
Skeese
I updated the file for cranking and warmup and I think found the correct dead times. I still need to drop them into my interpolation spreadsheet but for sure I'll have the file sent to you today.
I do highly recommend you pull and clean the plugs as well as the rest of the deflood process prior to starting as well as make sure the battery has plenty of juice to fire it.
Its amazing what will happen if you use the right mixture and add some spark
Skeese
thanks man I look forward to seeing the map
12-09-16, 08:00 PM
#11
As promised, see the attached tune file. I tried to attach my interpolation spreadsheet but I got some invalid file error.
I basically did everything I mentioned above. I updated the cranking fuel table such that is not has greatly reduced values that I have found commonly fix the flooding during startup problem. I also set up the Hi/Low coolant enrichment tables based on what I have had success with which essentially has a crap ton less fuel in and the values are muuuuucccchhhh closer between the two tables which eliminates the hunting/stalling/flooding during warmup once you get up and running. I plugged in the values I interpolated and from the FIC injector data sheets for 43.5 PSI.
You are going to want to check your base fuel pressure is set to 43.5 PSI. This is pretty much standard and unless you are doing something crazy there is no reason to run anything different.
Lastly soothed out the idle section of the VE fuel table. I have no idea why they think it will idle in one cell on a basemap, its way way more prone to hunt given that tolerance sooooooooo it makes way more sense to brick up a bunch of cells to get it to hold a steady idle and then adjust from there.
Make sure you clean those plugs, deflood the motor, and have enough juice to start and this should work for you. I'm free all weekend so PM me with your number if you have any issues. Once it fires and runs there are a handful of other checks and adjustments to be made which I can help you with, but those come after the car actually starts.
Godspeed teamafx. May the force be with you
Skeese
I basically did everything I mentioned above. I updated the cranking fuel table such that is not has greatly reduced values that I have found commonly fix the flooding during startup problem. I also set up the Hi/Low coolant enrichment tables based on what I have had success with which essentially has a crap ton less fuel in and the values are muuuuucccchhhh closer between the two tables which eliminates the hunting/stalling/flooding during warmup once you get up and running. I plugged in the values I interpolated and from the FIC injector data sheets for 43.5 PSI.
You are going to want to check your base fuel pressure is set to 43.5 PSI. This is pretty much standard and unless you are doing something crazy there is no reason to run anything different.
Lastly soothed out the idle section of the VE fuel table. I have no idea why they think it will idle in one cell on a basemap, its way way more prone to hunt given that tolerance sooooooooo it makes way more sense to brick up a bunch of cells to get it to hold a steady idle and then adjust from there.
Make sure you clean those plugs, deflood the motor, and have enough juice to start and this should work for you. I'm free all weekend so PM me with your number if you have any issues. Once it fires and runs there are a handful of other checks and adjustments to be made which I can help you with, but those come after the car actually starts.
Godspeed teamafx. May the force be with you
Skeese
12-10-16, 05:12 PM
#12
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: pembroke, massachusetts
Posts: 2,534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As promised, see the attached tune file. I tried to attach my interpolation spreadsheet but I got some invalid file error.
I basically did everything I mentioned above. I updated the cranking fuel table such that is not has greatly reduced values that I have found commonly fix the flooding during startup problem. I also set up the Hi/Low coolant enrichment tables based on what I have had success with which essentially has a crap ton less fuel in and the values are muuuuucccchhhh closer between the two tables which eliminates the hunting/stalling/flooding during warmup once you get up and running. I plugged in the values I interpolated and from the FIC injector data sheets for 43.5 PSI.
You are going to want to check your base fuel pressure is set to 43.5 PSI. This is pretty much standard and unless you are doing something crazy there is no reason to run anything different.
Lastly soothed out the idle section of the VE fuel table. I have no idea why they think it will idle in one cell on a basemap, its way way more prone to hunt given that tolerance sooooooooo it makes way more sense to brick up a bunch of cells to get it to hold a steady idle and then adjust from there.
Make sure you clean those plugs, deflood the motor, and have enough juice to start and this should work for you. I'm free all weekend so PM me with your number if you have any issues. Once it fires and runs there are a handful of other checks and adjustments to be made which I can help you with, but those come after the car actually starts.
Godspeed teamafx. May the force be with you
Skeese
I basically did everything I mentioned above. I updated the cranking fuel table such that is not has greatly reduced values that I have found commonly fix the flooding during startup problem. I also set up the Hi/Low coolant enrichment tables based on what I have had success with which essentially has a crap ton less fuel in and the values are muuuuucccchhhh closer between the two tables which eliminates the hunting/stalling/flooding during warmup once you get up and running. I plugged in the values I interpolated and from the FIC injector data sheets for 43.5 PSI.
You are going to want to check your base fuel pressure is set to 43.5 PSI. This is pretty much standard and unless you are doing something crazy there is no reason to run anything different.
Lastly soothed out the idle section of the VE fuel table. I have no idea why they think it will idle in one cell on a basemap, its way way more prone to hunt given that tolerance sooooooooo it makes way more sense to brick up a bunch of cells to get it to hold a steady idle and then adjust from there.
Make sure you clean those plugs, deflood the motor, and have enough juice to start and this should work for you. I'm free all weekend so PM me with your number if you have any issues. Once it fires and runs there are a handful of other checks and adjustments to be made which I can help you with, but those come after the car actually starts.
Godspeed teamafx. May the force be with you
Skeese
good news bad news. I got it to run for abouthe 20 seconds but im leaking fuel bad around an injector Seal, just not sure which but I did get it to start!
12-10-16, 05:43 PM
#13
If you want to test that leak after you re-seat the leaky injector without firing the car and adding spark for a fuel leakage problem you can just plug up the laptop to the adaptronic and the go to the AUX OUT tab in wari. Change the drop down to AUX OUTPUT 5 which is your fuel pump and click the invert check mark box. This will cause your fuel pump to come on and run when the key is in the 'on' position before cranking. This is also helpful when setting base fuel pressure.
Also, what spark plugs are you using? I helped a guy out here recently with a REAL similar issue who was doing the initial startup thing using high dollar 10 and 11 heat range plugs since he'd end up needing to run those eventually. Instead of risking fouling those expensive plugs, pick up a set of four of the OEM NGK 9's if you aren't already using them and just run those until later. No matter how bad you flood and foul, you can pretty much clean and reuse those plugs over and over until you get the cranking/startup/warmup fuel sorted.
Let me know!
Skeese
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Angry Earl
Comments and Suggestions Archive
6
11-21-16 10:57 AM
calculon
Comments and Suggestions Archive
7
11-02-06 03:32 PM
evileagle
2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992)
4
09-21-03 09:43 AM